SFV Matchup Chart. S2 Boxer vs Guile; Urien vs Gief; Ibuki vs Sim; Ryu vs Vega; Juri vs FANG


#41

Laura’s options after a knockdown are pretty brutal on Alex, I’ve had multiple matches where I’ve had the life lead go from over half to a round loss just due to being knocked down or command grabbed once. Alex doesn’t have options as strong as her for his oki, so Laura wins the “Who can make the other guess harder” war between grapplers. Her counter poke on some of Alex’s main mid-range tools like his cr.mp are also pretty legit, cr.hp can stuff that shit all day. Sure, guess right multiple times and you win but the same can be said for Mika, who can dominate once in the corner just through guesswork.


#42

Do you want each character sub-forum to discuss the match ups and agree on a specific characters matchups list and than compare it with the other characters forums ? Or you want certain members to come up with match ups list for their characters and discuss it among themselves before reaching an agreed match up list ?
This project sound interesting, good luck.
I am not a high level player but I think I could help on Fang and Bison match ups if you would like.


The Street Fighter V Lounge - Smashas in the Club Doing Aegis Reflector
#43

St.lk has like no push back. If cammy uses st.lk she is already in throw range.

Even if cammy throws, she’s right back in with ex dive.

Akram beat kbrad because he wouldn’t block high.

I dunno, Laura’s offense isn’t real most of the time. Cammy wins on defense, neutral and offense. This is why I think this mu is actually free for Cammy.

It’s not easy to anti air ex dive at all. I play good Laura’s constantly. If you consider points as something that matters, then I have a friend who is a diamond laura and really he can’t keep cammy off. I also noticed this with literally every laura I’ve ever played, including wolfkrone (for what it’s worth)

I’m actually ok with throwing laura Everytime because throwing gives lots of meter and that means I’ll be in again whenever I feel like it. Otherwise I can either do neutral or defensive play and have an advantage anyway.


#44

What does it even mean? Watch the match again, K-Brad AAed Akram every time and the only two times he landed the overhead he got CCed, so either he was pressing buttons or more probably backdashing. Akram almost didn’t land any command grab either.

If you think that was just a bad match you can watch this set of Cuongster vs Will2pac that the latter won 5-1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsPV-JN9ahI
Some matches are a particularly good display of how much Laura doesn’t mind about Cammy’s offense. You can see Will2pac not caring about the tons of grey life on him, eating throw loops, then one st. MK into VT and Cammy is already halfway to get dizzied and killed.

And how is Cammy’s offense more real than Laura’s exactly? Again, her damage output and conversion just aren’t there, her options are limited both in neutral and on wakeup and her frame traps aren’t really better than Laura’s.
Her defense, neutral and offense are nowhere near as solid or varied as Chun’s, so if Cammy is a 3-7 Chun should be at least a 1-9.


#45

Cammy’s offense isn’t telegraphed set play.

She is all frame trap/throw/shimmy

Akram abused vskill overheads, which is nothing more than a gimmick.

Cammy doesn’t need to take very many risks and nothing is telegraphed. She also gets in near 100% of the time and wins neutral.

She wins on offense, defense and neutral.

There is nothing left to consider for a matchup.


#46

Akram “abused” her overheads?? He only used two of them and both in the same sequence! Really, just re-watch the set, overhead didn’t really play any role against K-Brad. You’re probably confusing with the Ibuki match that came later where Akram was literally just having fun with an opponent he was already dominating.

And sorry but Cammy’s tick throws are the most telegraphed in the whole roster. It’s the only character that has to go for a throw sooner or later because she just can’t throw normals all day long hoping to bait something, so you just need to focus on that.
When Laura does a st. LP/MP, cr. MP xx EX fireball it’s immediately both a frame trap and a 50/50. What does Cammy get for a st. LP or a cr. MP? Nothing unless she decides to walk forward. That’s why her offense isn’t scary.


#47

I already told you about st.lk


#48

It’s +1 on block. There’s no frame trap or guess there.


#49

Yeah. None

St.lk Cr.lp : 2 fr gap
St lk st.lp 3 fr gap
St lk Cr.mp : 4 fr gap
St.lk st.mp: 5 frame gap
She has more

There’s no push back really either so she can immediately throw.

Anyway. I’m done here. There’s no point.


#50

Sorry I forgot the cr. LP. It’s the only valid one though in the MU we’re talking about since Laura has a 3f jab, the other ones will just trade or get beaten.


#51

Zangief MU spread :

Gief vs Laura, 6-4

Gief vs Rashid, 5-5

Gief vs. Alex, 5-5

Gief vs Birdie, 4-6

Gief vs Sim, 4-6

Gief vs. Nash, 3-7

Gief vs Bison, 5-5

Gief vs Mika, 6-4

Gief vs ryu, 5-5

Gief vs Ken, 4-6

Gief vs Chun, 4-6

Gief vs Necalli, 5-5

Gief vs Guile, 4-6 ( theres a feeling that its possibly 5-5, requires more observation)

Gief vs balrog, 6-4

Gief vs Juri, ??? (Not enough data right now)

Gief vs Cammy, 6-4

Gief vs Fang 5-5

Gief vs Vega, 4-6

Gief vs Karin, 6-4

Gief vs Ibuki, 6-4


#52

I disagree with this one. Laura doesn’t any good options neither if she’s the one who gets knocked down. Her ex elbow is all she has going for her and the armor like everything else starts on frame 3. A grab, ex chop or just hitting her before the armor activates will take of that. Laura ain’t fucking with him in his optimal range. She’ll need to land a crush counter with her roundhouses to get in close. Alex’s jab shuts down all her aerial offense and can beat cross-ups attempts.


#53

@S_Kelson could help with Karin match-ups.


#54

Talked to DJ and I’m gonna give him and @LordWilliam1234 (and whoever else needs to be involved) access to the automated chart I made some time ago. Should speed things up somewhat since half the chart auto-populates thanks to formulas, plus it also calculates for true mid based on the final results.

For anyone who wants to try it out, I’ve also made a template you can use to make a similar chart with the same formulas.

https://drive.google.com/previewtemplate?id=1vRoOZQC6RU4iWxNPR8EfUL1CIk2eel3jHBO29uxsp3w&mode=public#


#55

@HeavensCloud Oh wow I’m honored to be mentioned haha. Sure I would be glad to help with this for Karin matchups. We should try to get input from character-specific threads since they contain a lot of niche info.


#56

Been a while (was waiting to see if there would be more input in this thread), but I went back through the thread and made a new match-up chart:

http://i.imgur.com/vqqAb4Z.png

Still a WIP of course, need more input to make this better. But if we go by this, that would make the tier list something like this (characters are ordered within tiers):

S Tier

Ryu, Necalli

A Tier

Nash
Chun-li, Ken
Vega
Cammy
Karin
Guile
R. Mika

B Tier

Juri
Laura
Dhalsim
Birdie, Zangief
Alex
Ibuki
Balrog

C Tier

FANG, Rashid
Bison

Some of these are more lack of input than anything (e.g Guile and Balrog I think would probably shift quite a bit), but it’s interesting seeing tiers form from this.


#57

After our discussions in the subforum, Laura’s MUs rather look like this:

3-7
Chun
Guile (at least 4-6 anyway)

4-6
Cammy
Necalli
Ryu
Juri (potentially)
Karin (5.5?)
Ken
Zangief

5-5
Alex
Birdie
Ibuki
R. Mika
Rashid

6-4
Dictator
Boxer
Dhalsim
FANG
Nash (5.5?)
Claw (5.5?)

I think some of them are a little closer to 5-5 than what indicated here (Karin above everything), but this is what people seem to agree about.


#58

I have no issues butting in for Mika matchups :slight_smile: Will add my numbers later today but do take into account that, like MochaLatte, MU numbers are super volatile in my opinion. I used to think Mika beat Laura and now I think it’s 5-5, I also thought Chun was a 5-5 and now I think it’s in Chun’s favor.

What I’m saying is what I’ll post will probably be different to my MU numbers in december, lol.


#59

Cammy loses 4-6 to birdie and beats Vega 6-4


#60

-Arrange the characters in alphabetical order.
-Color code the match up numbers.
-Calculate for true mid

If you need help doing these, you can check out the match up chart template I made.

EDIT: True mid (average) is 100 so R. Mika is true mid tier. So considering how close some characters are to her (Juri, Guile, 'Sim, Birdie, etc.) you can probably group them all in a separate tier.