SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive

Yeah i love this game , Blair and Skullomania FTW

Kuma’s Super is like that as well… if I have two bars playing Kuma just don’t get hit, if you do, you’re dead as I’ll cancel into megaton claw h, bounce your ass, kick you and fart on you and it will fucking hurt. A lot.

Edit - Man I thought this shitty ass site got new servers… why does it still run like ass.

He does good damage without EWGF. Especially if you have gems or meter.

If your footsies are pristine you can get away with it, but there are other characters that have cheaper footsies if you don’t consider EWGF. EWGF seems important to allowing him to truly bully the footsie game.

They way overbuffed Ken’s super. 300 damage with meh at best hitbox before was under powered. Now it’s got a good hitbox and at 340 damage it does the same as Zangief’s SPD.

should have fixed the hitbox and made it 320 or at most 330. IMO

They basically gave the damage they stole from Xiaoyu’s super to Ken. She went from 310 to 270. Why she has the 2nd weakest super in game? Beats the fuck outta me. o_O

Some more new info from your favorite Paul board:

I recorded some footage and did some frame count work on start ups.

I found a strange behavior that might explain why so many EX moves have +1F of start up listed in the guide.
I recorded some footage and checked the start up for all of Paul’s moves. In the course of this, I checked other characters as well, to see whether this theory is true or not.
When you record EX Charge moves (e.g. EX Tiger Knee, EX Phoenix Smasher etc) [not as in "charging the normal version to EX, but inputting DP + KK, or QCF + PP], you have additional frames of animation - at least for most of them. EX Phoenix Smasher has from the input to the actual hit 16F of animation, but only 11F of start up (listed as 12F in the guide). Now, when you CANCEL that move off a normal, you don’t have these additional frames, making counting the actual start up easier. HOWEVER, it seems that for almost ALL specials you have 1F of additional animation (or actual start up?) if you cancel it off a normal move, meaning Raze (19F start up), has 20F from first cancel frame to the actual hit. HOWEVER the second, this doesn’t seem to affect ANY PROJECTILE nor chain combos and some other specials. I don’t know why the guide lists wrong numbers for either of those. It doesn’t seem to affect a few specials. For instance, EX Shoryuken and EX Tatsumaki have 4F and 12F of start up canceled or not, where as all Joudan Kicks have 1F less start up\animation when done raw.

All is highly speculative and I only spot tested.

Now for Paul:
-First off, all far, close, crouching and unique normals are correct.

  • j.hk which is supposed to have 10F startup has 13F instead! Not only has j.hp a better hit\hurt box, it’s also 3F faster. Will remove that move from my mind.
    -All normal versions of the specials are correct.
    -EX Mortar has indeed 23F start up (not 24F)
    -EX Raze has 14F start up (not 15F)
    -EX Sway has 30F (instead of 31F)
    -EX Shredder and all other versions are confirmed to have 6F (so -1F for EX Shredder)
    -As explained above, EX Smasher has canceled from a normal has 12F start up animation, which leaves me to believe that it has indeed 11F start up (as tested against various -11F specials). However, I wasn’t able to punish King’s Water Kick (-11), MK Tiger Knee (-11), Poisons f.mp (-11), so either those are safer, or it has 12F start up and these are more unsafe since I was able to reversal them: Ogre’s Owl Hunt (-11), Rolento Super (-11), Heihachi’s cl.hp (-11), Chun Li’s LP Kioken (-11), Julia’s f.mp > mk (-11).

Guile:
-EX Flash Kick is 5F (instead of 6 - tho that was already known)
-EX Boom is 10F instead of 11F
-Air Throw is 5F now

Ryu:
-EX Shoryuken 4F (-1F)
-EX Tatsu 12F (-1F)
-Ex Hadoken 12F (-1F)
-EX Jourdan 15F (-1F)

Sagat:
-EX TU is 3F (-1F)
-EX High Tiger 12F (-1F)
-EX Low Tiger 13F (-1F)
-EX TK is 9F when canceled from a normal (so it would be presumable -1F = 8F raw)

She’s got pretty good meterless damage though, and good tag in combos. Ken’s combo options are probably the absolute worst out of the 4 shotos in this game, including Ryu (when Ryu has meter, he can at least get near 400 with one bar by himself).

new ken is gdlk. Really has a lot of potential.

Just screwing around in the lab proving a friend wrong (about Akuma) and stumbled across some stuff,

Doing an optimal (to my knowledge) combo from Kuma into Akuma with Cross Art does a whopping 686 damage.

Doing a HK tatsu (Ken) and switch cancelling gives Ryu enough time to charge up from an EX fireball into super to do 515 odd damage for 2 bar though I might break that if I do a bigger combo before switch cancelling.

Without gems of course.

Eh, idk. It feels like old Ken + one new combo possibility + a Super Art that doesn’t suck. Shippu Jenrai Kyaku was always one of his best supers. Why did it suck until recently? Regardless, I wouldn’t say gdlk. Law’s gdlk. Lili’s gdlk. Ken is NOT gdlk. Imo, anyway.

That’s what Ken’s super doesn’t have. That combo synergy. Anywho, was that Ken’s H Tatsu or Akuma’s? If it’s Akumas…dang…I wouldn’t expect it…

Kens full screen, Akuma corner only it seems. Having trouble hitting a few combos using Akuma’s HK tatsu, it seems to be a bit buggy, I could swear he flew like up into the corner of the screen when I did something before but I have no idea what.

Ken’s Tatsu I can see easily, so long as you hit with all five hits. I used to do it to charge Cammy’s Super Art from ex (it worked barely). Anyone’s that moves quick enough should get the job done (Chun, Ryu, Cammy, Heihachi, and…eh…wow, might just be those four…).

I wouldn’t expect Akuma’s Tatsu to be too useful in a combo like that, anyway. Still, a slightly better combo than charging to super for two bars is:

Whatever you did, H Tatsu, tag to partner, jumping HP/HK, launcher, cr HP, Ken’s Super Art.

Much stronger. I hit 560-ish when doing it myself (I think off of a cross-up MK, cr MK, see above starting at H Tatsu).

Yeah I’ve done jump ins off the lockdown from tatsu before, Akuma’s lasts long enough but I dunno, seems weird, I get an inconsistent number of hits off it. Like I did it as a follow up from the groundbounce from his cl. roundhouse after a jump in tatsu and it reacted pretty strange.

IMO, I’ve always been afraid of Ken since I started playing. In this kind of game he’s just really solid thanks to the importance of footsies, and big damage punishes which is also evidence in any game that has those two things strongly rooted into them(3S, ST, CvS2 to name a few) . I was still shocked pre-patch when I fooled around with him and Cammy on a team getting over 500 damage for one bar. I’d say the same for Sakura in the fact that there is more to her then what it seems.

In fact, there is still several SF characters that are straight up threats, and will be seen often do to the nature of their character. Just like the Tekken cast has their rock-stars, SF has just as many as well(from Ken, and Dudley to Chun, Cammy, Juri, Guy, sakura, Sagat, Dhalsim, etc).

Has anyone else noticed that when you cross rush with jin in the corner your partner comes out on the other side putting you in the corner?

Im sorry but ive got to interject and say that Christie is not a mixup character…her overheads are slow to startup and dont lead to anything (aside from EC DAS). Shes a good footsie / punish character. Her tekken chain mixups have been nerfed and are all interruptable (except st.mk x2 and Negativa to Armada). Shes got easy safejumps. Again, she is not a mixup character. You dont have to react quickly / predict a high/low string…and even if you do get hit by the overhead, she gets nothing out of it since all her overheads knock down, or cant be comboed into (again, aside from EX DAS). Her footsie game is strong though, and she gets good damage + great switch opportunities off her BnB’s. Also, her corner switch stuff is pretty good with Batacuda and helicopter.

Actually, she CAN make a good amount of high/low guessing games:

Her basic boost chain can be interrupted with an EX Double Arm Stinger or those low sweep kicks. That’s a pretty quick high/low option + those low sweep kicks can be followed by another high instead of another low.

Her cr. LP, st. MK target combo can be canceled into any of her special moves before going into the rest of it, anyway.

She has a ton of opportunities to attack high or low, even if her primary tool is kind of “bleh” as of now (trade off for a better anti-air I guess). She’s still got a good amount of high and low mix-ups. Also, almost half the cast is a “footsie” character of sorts. The game puts heavy emphasis on that concept in the first place. We know she’s got high damage, but I’m not feeling the whole footsies thing. =l

Somebody have complete frame data for DLC characters?

It’s interesting somebody could say Christie isn’t a mixup character and talks theory, when I personally do just that with her in live play. Like everything I posted a few pages back were hallucinations.

Is this really possible? I havent been able to replicate it…