Basically yeah, except the translation sounded like the 2nd hit would cause ground hitstun, making ppl confused since the 1st hit knocks them down in the current patch.
well the “second hit connect” is all I needed to make out what they mean^^ could be that df.hk will juggle, elbow puts them back in a juggle state so demo can connect or something. but yeah, your translation makes more sense.
Yup. I thought ppl were going to come up with some crazy juggle -> reset ideas so I just had to stop them (and myself) from getting hype for all the new ideas.
BTW, since the 2nd hit has 2f more frame advantage it must mean it is +3 on hit now. I guess we can play some reset games as well after all, especially with changes to throw start-up.
might be not worth the risk tho, seeing you’d hardly do 50 damage over Demolition man with a throw. +risk of losing guaranteed 80 damage and meter.
I guess so, but we have to remember that since throw is getting faster more ppl will end up trying to tech stuff, which means tech blow-up tech is going to be more viable now. However I do agree that guaranteed damage is better. I wonder how much pushback demolition man has midscreen, cuz I never landed it midscreen before, and I cannot test it right now.
well I actually think that 5 frames alone won’t make throws viable at all. the problem is not only the start up for the most part, but that the reach is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tiny that you can’t outreach a s.lp / c.lp etc - and that won’t change I fear.
To tell the truth I often drop my combo just to do a reset with Paul =P
When I’m hitconfirming and get a hit, I often drop it, just to do an overhead into Super. I always have a power gem equipped that activates on super, so I roughly deal around 400 damage that way.
And if I’m not going for an overhead then I’m either going for a throw or a low MK into mortar punch. You kinda have to condition your opponent a little XD
Yeah I agree with Zukuu, the main problem is the throw reach, Paul can’t take advantage of the startup buff cause his walkspeed is still really slow and to make matters worse, they nerfed his frame advantage and increased the pusback of his st.lp.
His throwing game is gonna be really ass now, they also reduced the damage, so the risk far outweighs the reward now.
IMO the fact that it’s faster now will make ppl at least be aware of it. It’s too bad his walkspeed isn’t getting buffed (or is it?), but I think we should make a use of it somehow. It’s better to know when to use every tool
Ah well, back to theory fighting until December.
well actually you could do now some forward dash shenanigans. I did that in this version as well occasionally, works to some degree off a c.hp xx CADC, or after a c.mp xx LP Sway, Dash. the 23 frames forward dash mean it is not a reliable thing tho (along with the fact that god and the world mashes their safe c.lk, c.lp and s.lp into pressure) - this might be more viable now, but then again, they nerfed the hit stun of c.hp, so it might be even worse now (then again the whole thing happens quicker, making it harder to react for them).
I understand your reasoning but it’s not gonna be as effective as before, just make a comparison.
Before the patch the throw startup was 7 frames.
His st.lp had a starup of 4 and was +5 on block.
Now the throw startup is 5 frames.
His st.lp has a startup of 5 and it is +2 on block.
Before the patch there was a gap of 2 frames, between blocking and getting thrown. Meaning that the opponent only had 2 frames the time to make a good read, be it teching, blocking or whatever.
Now there is a gap of 3 frames between blocking and getting thrown, PLUS we get more pushback, so we probably have to walk a bit before we’ll be in throw range. The opponent now has more time to react.
We don’t even know how much pushback he is actually getting, maybe they don’t even have to be bothered in throw teching him at all…
You know, I’ll be honest. I completely didn’t see the pushback nerf on his jab. Now I agree with you guys that his throw game won’t be as viable as before
BTW, the hitstun wasn’t nerfed on his cr.HP. It was a mistranslation. The direct translation is “Recovery on hit reduced by 12 frames (+2f on hit)”.
are you kidding me?
Well, other than the translation, it also has a flaw:
-10f on hit is the current cr.HP. In order to have +2f advantage AND have 12f less hitstun, cr.HP’s recovery will have to be reduced by 24 frames (since it would be -22f with just 12f less hitstun). It currently has 30f recovery, so it’ll have to be 6f recovery, and hitstun would be reduced to about 11f, which is less hitstun frames than a light attack. Yeahhh
I’m kinda at a loss now, so
Does he simply recover faster after doing a cr.HP or does the opponent get more hitstun ?
If I remember correctly it was negative on hit, like most Heavy attacks…
He simply recovers faster.
So if he now has 6 frames of recovery frames then it would never be a good idea to fadc his cr.HP, since his forward dash has a duration of more than 6 frames, somewhere around 16 frames or something I think. Or am I way off…?
Oh no, I’m just implying that THAT is impossible.
If I’m guessing correctly, he would have 6f start-up, 4f active frames, and 18f recovery frames instead of 8f start-up, 4f active frames, and 30f recovery frames. They specifically said “on hit”, so I do not know if the recovery would stay at the current 30f on block of whiff.
On hit, the remaining active frames + recovery frames is less than his CADC frames, so unless you want to get close in on him, he’ll recover a frame or two faster if he doesn’t CADC.
you know that that change alone makes me feel ALOT better about the whole paul changes? I used c.hp ALOT for shenanigans (in particular morta). I know 12 frames less hit stun seemed much, but it could work if they made the recovery and start up shorter on top (which they did by 2 frames) etc
that means we have 6 frames less to bother with for CADC straight out, for pressure AND for combos. c.hp CADC c.mp etc might be really possible.
any other translation errors?if yes please point them out.
• Far HP
- Hit stun reduced by 6F (On hit +3) -> “Recovery reduced on hit by 6f (+3 on hit)”
• M. Sway
- Increased hit stun by 4F (On hit +6) -> “Recovery reduced on hit by 4f (+6 on hit)” (very similar, but actually changes the situation when you want to tag cancel out of this move)
That’s basically it. Paul is one of those characters that are translated pretty good.