SG Q&A Thread - Launch Party April 10-11th

#714

Original like (a) the black background with text? Or “original” like (b) the concept art for the final screen, with the diagonal boxes?

If you mean (a), because that was always designed to be replaced. I made it in five minutes, one night. LOL
If you mean (b), various things ranging from the space to fit more DLC characters to the fact that it’s always unclear which way up and down go when boxes are arranged diagonally. 3s does a decent job, but still…

[edit] Death sound’s still there, there was an issue with this week’s build not always playing sounds.

[edit edit] Cerebella’s Lv3 has hyper armor, and as for others, at least Painwheel.

#715

Just watched the WNF stream. Ultra David brought up something that I was wondering, he talked about how the anti-infinite system seems complicated and could make things like learning bnb’s difficult.

I guess what’s not clear to me is, how many loops can you do before it kicks in, and more importantly what exactly constitutes a loop?

Could a combo reach a point where one specific button/move, regardless of whats before and after it, is considered a loop?

#716

you are given 3 loops before it kicks in.

#717

I think Alpha 3 combo maniacs are going to take well to this system :slight_smile:

So stuff like Parasoul’s RC Soldier and M.Fortune’s head recall count as neutral states even if you cancel them into another move before they recover?

#718

This is ingenious and I love the hell out of it. It makes sense and at the same time it manages to be cool as hell.

Also if you don’t mind me asking can I get your email (pm’d?), I had a personal question or two to ask.

#719

I’m not sure why people think this IPS is complicated.

Sure, explaining hitstun deterioration as a concept is easy, “hitstun gets shorter as you go on,” but if you want to sit down and figure out whether a sequence is allowed by the system, the only real way is to try it in the game. It’s impossible (in MvC3/GG) or extremely difficult (in BB) to determine whether a given combo is allowed to work or not, just by analyzing it on paper. And even trying it in the game, it’s hard to know if it was your execution that caused the combo to drop, or the hitstun deterioration.

Contrast that with SG’s infinite prevention system, where the rules are still simple to explain - “don’t start a chain with something you already hit with, and your combo is always legit.” You get 2 free sections before moves are even counted toward this limit (your first and second chains) and one more free section where moves are kept track of but the limit isn’t enforced yet (the entirety of your jump if you’re in the air, or your next chain if you aren’t). That’s it.
You can determine exactly whether or not a combo is possible just by writing it out: “Did I already use s.LP? OK, can’t start another chain with that.” And if something doesn’t work, the hitsparks change color and you immediately know which move caused it. You also immediately know why, because the ONLY THING that would cause it is you having used that move before.

Even if SG’s system were as opaque as MvC3/GG/BB, the same basic concept of ‘try different things until you find something that works’ still applies…I think people are just worried because it’s new.

Well, “regardless of what’s before it” is wrong because the determining factor is which moves came before it.
But yes, you can run out of options. In fact, that’s the whole point, because at that spot in the combo it is a loop. If you juggle with a standing LP somewhere, then later on you juggle with s.LP again, ignoring spacing differences there’s nothing stopping you from repeating whatever you did to give yourself another opportunity to juggle with s.LP and go on forever…and since timing/spacing/etc is impossible to analyze*, the only conclusion is that you found a loop.

  • this is why infinites are found in other systems. :^)
#720

Serious question.

Will the game’s tutorials or challenge modes have an explanation of how the IPS works so that people can attempt to optimize their combos?

Also, probably a totally stupid idea, but it’s a thing to think about. Have you ever thought of making the pre-set assists non-redundant? For example, you can’t hold buttons or do aerial moves with custom assist. So the first two assists (or perhaps one) could be things that you can’t do with custom assist like, a held Peacock H item drop, or an aerial cerebella glide clap or elbow drop, or a Ms. Fortune head noms, and then everything else is custom.

Just thought this could be a cool way to get assists in there that aren’t covered by custom assist but are still considered by the team to be “cool” or “fair”.

#721

With hitstun deterioration there’s a mathematical explanation behind it, it may be a convoluted mess but it’s still just numbers. Whereas with the IPS it seems like we’ll first have to figure out how the engine “thinks” (like it’s an A.I.) and then go from there.

Maybe I’m just over-thinking things and it will seem more intuitive when I actually play the game. And just to be clear I’m not saying I would prefer hitstun deterioration, the IPS is one of the many interesting ideas in SG. :slight_smile:

Say I do the following combos, using numbers for simplicity…
1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 4, 1, 5, 1

1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1

are these loops?

#722

its hard to say from your numbers. the IPS uses blocks of actions, one block being a series of actions with no neutral states in them.

so if it was like 1, 2 : 1, 2, 3: 1, 2, 3, 4: etc… the way i understand it you would be able to get those three off and when you started the 1, 2 ,3 ,4 5: part it would trigger IPS because you are being redundant. the first block is free, the second starts with 1 the third starts with 1.

but i could be wrong.

#723

I would love this as an option, although Peakcock M item drop would make more sense as an assist, H seems a little too much.

#724

either way, if you had a held item drop with peacock i doubt it would get off very ofter. she would just sit there unprotected until the item actually fell…
also, if i remember right mike said that the #2 assist slot would take up the last custom assist you chose to make repicking it easier…

#725

Well, now we’ve gotten of the discussion of what’s easier to understand. Heavy words time!

I’m not sure the numbers are simpler since you didn’t explain what they represent. (^.^)
Are they attacks? If so, you’re doing 1->2, 1->3, 1->4, 1->5, 1…
Are they chains/sequences of moves? If so, you’re doing ABC, W, ABC, X, ABC, Y, ABC, Z, ABC.

Doesn’t matter, it turns out. In either case, they’re loops. What’s stopping you from deciding to do 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 forever? Nothing. Just because you didn’t, doesn’t mean you couldn’t. If we were to attempt to stop you after detecting a loop, for example too many 1,2’s, then you get into problems like what if you do 1,2, 1,3, 1,2, 1,4, 1,2, etc. That’s the type of thing that it is provably impossible to properly detect* which is why no system has done it. So SG ends the combo as soon as you could be doing another 1,2 after you already have…which means ending it on the 1. Then we give you some free sections to start because it turns out players are okay with loops for a while, since they tend not to see them as loops. :^P

It’s the difference between being able to say “there probably aren’t any infinites” and “there aren’t any infinites.”

  • “one Turing machine can’t determine within a finite time period whether another Turing machine will halt for a given set of inputs” maps to this.
#726

Just as well, you’d have to hold down the assist so you could determine when you wanted the item to drop, and you’d rob yourself of those two buttons.

Actual question: How big is the window for left/right autoguard? What game might it be best compared to?

#727

I was thinking this too, Peacock j.HK would be a cool preset.

#728

Maybe I misunderstood the question…there’s nothing in SG protecting you from left/right switches. You always have to block the point character, but of course you’ll keep blocking if you’re already in blockstun and they cross over you. It can best be compared to MvC2.

#729

I meant in regards to blockstun, blocking an assist from the left then the point crossing up from the left and trying to hit from the right, but I think I’m just dumb and over-thinking and it would come down to how long the blockstun is for the assist anyway.

edit for clarification

#730

You always block away from the point to block the assist… same as in every other game with assists/stuff that can hit you from behind… other than 3S I guess.

#731

Do all questions in here have to about Skullgirls?

Because I wanted to ask Mike if he saw this?And maybe answer Preppy?

#732

Wow, didn’t know there were guts in MvC2.

-Tha Hindu

#733

Skullgirls is… you know… based off those guts. 85% of the game’s features are direct or improved features from Marvel 2.