She's a Fixxer upper: SSF4 Rose Fixxes

rose

#1

Just wanted to make thread where we could list some problems we have with rose. I dont mean ones where we cry about every little problem just something
so if capcom does ever come through they can easily find out what ppl want changed with rose or what could help her be a better character in the next SF game or update.

I know this was done before on another part of the forum but it was closed down and the character info was all over place so it made finding rose specific info hard to find.

Small Changes changes that would make a big difference.
An Overhead and FA adjustments Also a life buff to1000

I was actually thinking maybe they could use soul pride f.HK as an over head for rose since its desighned to suprise and poke to keep people at bay. Also if ur at about mid range and it hit it be followed up/combo into Cr.HK this could be a Counter hit combo or a 1-2 frame link or both(a link that has a easiers timing on counter hit). This combo would require proper spacing to at least Cr.Hk tip range and strict timing and counter hit. Also this spacing is risky as this move is punishable at mid range making it a move that requires a fair degree of tact.

Even though it would be made an overhead it would still keep its other properties like anti airring jumps and stuff. I said keep the AA properties because it not a braindead AA you have to time it for it AA. Plus if you AA with it, it becomes KND which eliminates any comboability outside of Super but i never use that and have seen very few people make use of it either and would trade the super juggle for it have Overhead and Combo properties instead.

Another change would be to buff the range on Rose’s
Focus attack as of right now its under half a square in the training room. I think making the range about same range as Cammy’s maybe a little futher since its rose’s scarf and not a limb. (it can strech a little) This would make this FA work alot better as of now the range allows people to completely avoid it or counter it. Maybe letting it come out a but faster also.

Please Capcom make Rose’s health 1000 instead of 950. Rose is the only female character i can see with 1000 healthas she has below average damage, a big lack of combos outside of fadc and her AA is limited/situational. Dont say her pokes because her pokes are good at best(no where near as good as Chun’s).Her mix up is also lacking in comparison to the other characters.(Maybe sakura at 975-1000)

Next would be the drills
I would pretty much leave them alone execpt for a coulpe of things

  1. would be to increase the damage on the mk and hk versions Mk, would become 125 which is the same as a counter hit drill now so i dont think its over kill. And make lk.SSpiral -8~-10 -12 is to much for the lack of damage and range.

The Hk would become 150 but keep all the same properties it has now which means it only garuntees combos/hits off of heavy move like cr.Hp or cl.Hk/Hp this would allow rose to punish hard and help the problems of her lower damage output.

  1. would be either to make Mk drill combo’s more reliable/garunteed or increase lk drills range i think the first one would be better for use as rose players and easier for capcom as they just have to adjust the the start up from 15 to 14 making this a easier fix. at 15 the drill can be blocked during basic cancels which leads us needing to use metter to complete BnB combos which shouldn’t be the case. Lk isn’t garunteed due to the lack of range. please fix this.

  2. the ex drill i have couple of suggestions
    one is make this drill do 175 and add 2-3( from the current 11 to 13-14) frames more invicibility frames i know this may sound too strong but i think it has a counter balance 1. its going to keep rose from doing her super cancel and second, with the fadc combos it makes ppl have to mange meter as its probably going to be our only reversal knowing capcom. Make it 0~-4. Why is my ex move so unsafe on block?

The other suggestion would be to make ex 150 but with 15 frames of invincibility this i think, now dont shoot me for this, but i think it would give rose a nice reliable reversal as the start up is completly in invicibility and would allow 1-2 frames of the actuall move to be invicibable also. Kind of like a tatsu doging a fireball but in the beginning instead of the middle. Make it 0~-4. once again there is no need for it to be -6 that to much.

Also if there drill mechaninc is going to return where MK and HK do multiple hits the the damage i have listed can be done like so mk spiral 2 hits =100+25 and Hk100+25+25 Ex.=125+25+25 or 100+25+25 depending on which one you go with also if it connects from an air tip off yuo can do all the hits or complie all the damage into one hit.

Some Spark changes
Start up

Lp. 14. Change the block and hit to either -2~3 on hit and -5 on block or -4 and -6.
Mp. 22. Change the Start up to 18-20(preferably 18)
Hp. 29. Change the Start up to 20 -24(preferably 22)
Ex . 14. Maybe make it -1,0,+1 on hit thats the only thing.If not then leave it as is.

The reason behind these fixxes are to make the sparks safe/usable in combos and usefull in fireball wars/tactics the current lp. soul spark is dangerous to use in combos(it can be punished by a Ultra/SA on block and hit) in hit and on block that shouldn’t be the case. It seems like mp was supposed to be the one we combo to but the thing isn’t garunteed to hit, so thats not possible and HP is not happening. With the fixxes listed lp. would be usefull in combos but still have disadavantages while mp would be garunteed in theroy due to the start up going down. While Hp would become usefull in fireball tactics and wars.

Add 20 stun and block push back. We need stun the current stun is 50 which is pretty bad since its only 10points stronger then a hadoken but no where near as spammable.

Next would be Soul Throw
start and active
Lp 6 and 9. give it invinc so that its from frame 6~8
Mp 6 and 10.give it invinc frames from 6~9
Hp 6 and 11. give it invinc frames from 6~10
Ex 6 and 11. give it invinc from 1~11 or 1~10. add 20-40 damage mayeb 10-20 stun.(definetly damage boost and Invinc frames. Also allow it to combo to Soul Reflect without FADC.)

This would allow rose to be hit during start up like she is now but not during the actuall flight of soul throw making it invinc until the peak of the throw. This way we can still be hit but only in start up and if ppl anticipate the soul throw (usally when used at random) and attack at the peak of ST. Also allow the Soul Throw to catch juggle states and air resets, at the very least allow the Ex.St to do this without FADC, while normal Soul Throw requires an FADC.

The ex version would basically be the same as what i said above just with slightly better start up and a damage buff to 160-180 and maybe a slight stun boost, just that it can in no way be stuff or stopped unless u dont jump.The Ex. Soul throw would also be the one to combo to Soul Reflect without a FADC.The Ex should be fully invinc or almost full invinc since we shouldnt be punished for anticapting the jump and using meter. The damage buff is because they all do the same damage this should be the ST that is better at punshing and comboing.

the reflects are up
Lp start up 13 active 2. change active 3 maybe 4 and where good.
Mp start up 13 active 3. change active 4-5. add 10% reflect boost, it would only add 5,7,8 more points damage depending on if its 50,70,80 damage FB.
Hp start up 12 active 2. change active to 3-4. add juggle to ST add reflect boost and make this unjumpable or at least really hard to jump/dodge.
Ex start up 8 active 2. change active 4-5 and Super reflect or split the reflected Ex.Ball into 2 one horizontal the other vertical, add the ST juggle.

Ok here’s a couple of combos
I wouldn’t expect them all (would like it but not expected) happen but some of these would really help out.

Cr.MkxxCr.MpxxSpiral/Spark. Cr.Mk to Cr.Mp should be a normal link that becomes easier with Counter hit.

Cr.lpxxCr.lpxxCr.lkxxSt.Mk - this would be for setup as the range it pushes back on block and hit it pretty decent about a square/square1/2 and it ends on St.Mk wich is +2 on hit which could allow mix up’s ect and make a decent block string when performed correctly. I could be done with cr.lp 3x but the cr.lp would need a big buff in + frames.

St.MpxxCr.MpxxSpiral/Spark. Can we lossen this up a bit maybe a 2 frame link thats all i ask as of right now this kind of difficult to pull off on a Jump in combo which is weird since its much easier is you do it from standing. While you might say just do it from standing that takes away from the total damage.

Cr.MPxxCr.MpxxSpiral - This would be strictly a counter hit combo. Its just a simple combo which would hit for decent damage and stun.It reqires a counter hit so it will have situational use but i think its worth while.Also add either +2/3 to cr.mp on hit the current 0 on hit majes no sense and makes this combo impossible.

F.hk to Cr.Hk - should be either a link or counter hit combo.As a Link a counter hit would just make this a much easier link. Even if F+HK doesn’t become a OH(though i hope it will) It think this should still become a combo it has restrictions so it will take skill to pull of but would be a nice addtion to rose’s game.

Cr.lpxxCr.lpxxSpiral. Should be alot easier to land its a really tight cancle at the moment and it almost serves no purpose as Cr.Mpxxspiral does the same damage but a little less stun. If this combo was made bit eaiser it would open up rosed mind games more since we could spiral or go for the cr.Mpxxspiral instead. So just lossen up the timing on this. I know when you chain light attacks you have to change the timing on each one so the cancle can happen but i have been able to do combos like this with other character with a slight more ease.

SlidexxCr.lp/Cr.lk. This should be a counter combo or at least a tough link. This would be nice since we could open people up and not have to worry about taking a hit when starting a combo and we still have the option of using Cr.MP for mor damage.

I know i dont want rose to be cheap, just good.

alright well now just let me know what u think and somethings u guys would like to add or see changed

This is a Suggestion for the ULTRA made by


Rose SSFIV 2012: Apology Edition Changes
#2

Im not for changing too much.

  • Reg. STs should have the current EX version invul (6-8 frames?).
  • EX version should get short startup armor (6-8 frames) and catch grounded opponents upon armor absorb ala her alpha counter in previous games. Proper reversal get!
  • Granted the change above is made, reg. Spirals can stay the same. EX Spiral more damage.
  • Not sold on reflect startup changes. If there is one very slight. Some juggle ability off of HP should be in there.
  • OH would be cool but with Soul Piedes range would be pretty sick. I can live without an OH.

#3

Things I’s like to see change would definitely be the addition of an overhead attack. Not sure if f+hk would be my selection to give OH properties to though. Since we’re obviously talking about another game and not Capcom simply patching this one why not give her a proper OH move like something say a f+mp or f+mk? That would be optimal as I’m sure they won’t give OH properties to her piede as that would be ridiculous because of the range of the move.

For Soul Throws I want her EX ST to have invincibility for a bit longer (perhaps until at least mid flight?) Damage I can live with as it already does 140 damage and guarantees you a knockdown if it hits. The regular ST’s should be given the curren’t EX ST’s invincibility window as said above. And ST’s should be able to be combo’d to. That would be a great looking ender to a crossup j.mk, c.hp, hp reflect…drool

Spiral’s I want a little better start up time and EX version should have armor properties as well as do a bit more damage.

Reflects I can live with them the way they are now with practice reflecting is pretty easy. I too am all for giving the hp version some juggle properties that aren’t just super. Say maybe follow up with a soul throw or f+hk then super, or just simply ultra.

Oh and why not the ability to combo to ultra? While not necessary but at the same time pretty much everyone else can (except Akuma) then why not? Damage scaling would take it’s toll in the combo so I doubt it would make the ability to combo to ultra overpowered. Something like j.hp, c.lp, c.lk, c.mp, ex spark, ultra would be really nice or crossup j.mk, c.mp, lp spark, FADC, c.lp, c.lk, c.mp, EX spark, ultra…


#4
  • Juggle ability for HP Reflect.
  • Better startup for Ex spiral.
  • Original soul throw = Ex soul throw. While EX ST is buffed with the armor gain.

#5

KazDa973,

I challenge you to a duel!


#6

mmm… i think your suggestions overpower Rose a bit.

correct me if im not wrong, but most Rose players agree with the following:

  • She needs a reliable reversal. Increasing EX SSpiral invencibility frames would do the job. No need to increase the damage if the invencibility frames are enough.

  • She needs a slightly better reflecting game. Against some chars (Sagat, Guile) reflects are almost useless (well, you can absorb a pair or two fireballs, but thats it). Increasing hitbox range and active frames slightly would be enough.

  • She needs a few more combos. Being able to connect HP Reflect with Soul Throw would be neat, the damage output would not be broken because HP Reflect inflicts crap damage anyways. HP Reflect hiboxes range should be increased in order to being able to combo it (even after FADC a SSpark for example).

  • She need a slightly higher stamina. 1000 hp intead 950 (yes, even though the official guide says she has 1000 hp it is not true!!! she has 950. She is slower than Chun so she should have a bit more stamina than her).

  • Finally, being able to juggle into ultra would put her in the same league as Ryu, Balrog, Rufus… (Sagat is untouchable). Its fair, other chars with more power and same speed are able to do it, why Rose not??? I see no reason to make her ultra so crappy (yes, it is crappy compared with a lot of others).

also, personally i think her front dash need some tweaks. It too slow and get easily punished after abosorbing an attack with FA.


#7

Soul Throws: I agree with the invincibility increase for regular ST’s. For her EX, either give her back her AC which you can combo from, or her Lvl 2 AST. I prefer AC’s though, I love that move.

Soul Spirals: I wouldn’t mind leaving them like they are. Or, you can reverse the frames on them and treat them like Alpha’s spirals(lp spirals has less recovery, fp had more recovery but does more damage), either way is fine. EX spirals should have more invincibility(to reliably go though fireballs), and do more damage.

Reflects: Either the reflect frames should increase a little, or recovery time should be a little bit quicker. I guess if you are gonna hit someone with a EX Reflect, you should be able to juggle them with a ST afterwards. Maybe the hit box should increase a little to make hitting them easier? Don’t really care too much.

Soul Sparks: Keep them the same, except the scarf should push them back and make it so people can jump out of c.mp xx lp.SS.

EDIT: And no overhead. She doesn’t need one, and it may make her a bit too strong.


#8

lol metro just give a day or two so i can re up and practice
i kind of went back SC4 so i have to get my head back to Sf4
but be warned i tend to suck at mirrors.

I hear u guys with soul throw having the ex invinc frames
i originally said the same thing but changed my mind after
think of how ST which was in the air only so i guess that what
caused me to switch to the death to all anit air. My main gripe
with the ex frames on the normal would be if someone just decides
to attack early wouldnt that lead to the problem we have now
with ex soul throw? which is basically a late/ jump in reversal.(late for the invinc frames)
But as long as i can use it and not catch a foot to my face i dont care.

the damage buff to me is only needed on the ex versions and i realy just
feel that cause its like give me a reason/reward for using my meter.

Kind of like ex.SS which is the only ex move i think cap did right by rose. U never use and feel like this move is a waste of meter/space. It has the best of both worlds its 130 damge. It lp SS start up(i think) and a quicker recovery(i think) for rose and longer hit stun the only things its missing is knockdown but i think that would be O.D. cheap

Speaking of sparks i kind of agree with shinkuur but i have more of a problem with the 50 stun maybe im askin to much in sayin 70 since its only 10 stronger than ryu hadoken but half the stun and no where near as spammable (note i said sapmmable not usefull because we all have a use for that slow as hell SS)

I agree with reflects i just didnt know what would be good and i dont want them to be broken because that takes the fun out of it.

the rose life buff i agree with u 100 on that it should have been 1000 from jump
since that how its advertised. cap playing games with false advertisment lol

now with spirals i want to know why everyone is against the damage buff? Its only on the mk and hk the normal would stay as is
I really felt it was with in reason especially the mk its already in the game as a counter hit spiral that we get now on all spirals. U almost dont notice the damage increase but i think it just helpz rose out damage wise. Especially on the ex. as we have to use ex to have reversal in the first place just seems fair to me use the ex get ur reversal and damage. It would at least make ppl afraid of the possibility of rose reversing.

the combo in into ultra is the last thing on my list i think these things are more important than the combo into ultra. (no disrespec just saying)

CraptacularOne with the over head i guess i was just thinking it keeps rose unique and means less work or cap (make it patch friendly as possible i dont want spend if i dont have 2) plus the way i figured it would just allow rose to make ppl have to guess from mid range if where going high with f.Hk or low with cr.Hk and if they jump u went with f.Hk u just got a knockdown:wow: so it adds to the mind games.


#9

Make it so you can’t cancel an attack into soul throw!

So many times I’ve walked forward and had to quickly duck down and MP into Fireball, only to have the game with it’s easy inputs cancel my MP into a Soul throw that completely wiffs!

If it’s impossible to combo into Soul Throw, why make it cancel?

That and Some more frames of Soul Throw invincibility.

Her poke game is pretty sick as is so I don’t know about overhead. I usually go for a throw if they block too much. Or just keep at it if they are flustered to get them closer to the corner.


#10

I wasn’t planning to vs you with Rose. But if you can’t beat certain characters I pick, then you gotta do some learning.


#11

its a legit complaint, it is nonsense to cancel cr MP into SThrow, why did CAPCOM put this??? why???


#12
  • I don’t think I’m really qualified to say “what to fix” for Rose in the future SF4 games. But I’ll throw my 2 cents in.

1: Soul Throw works more frequently. It feels like I usually have to be psychic to pull this move off without it getting stuffed.

2: 1 hit armor for EX spiral. Maybe a little more damage.
*


#13

I want EX moves to do more dmg than its normal counterparts and more invincibility frames. Soul Sparks to push them back like they did in the alpha series. Either EX ST or normal ST or both have juggle properties to them.


#14
  1. Agree with most suggestions on Soul Throws gaining some priority juice and comboing off HP Reflect. These’ll have no imbalance implications and will simply serve to make her less anemic.

  2. Her reflect game could use something. Just one little tweak to make it more worthwhile. There are multiple suggestions possible for this; something like increasing the damage boost on her following Soul Sparks, making the damage boosts from absorptions compile on each other for the rest of the round, perhaps just the simple tweak that stops them nulling their own reflected fireball with a second one may even be enough on its own. Reflecting with HP seems to be 100% worthless, there’s absolutely no threat or reward for using it because of the angle and how slow and easy to see it is. They could do something to tweak that and give it some strategic value in some way.

  3. Links. This is an aspect of Rose that I find makes her very difficult to pick up and play. Each of her most basic links all seem to be within a 1 or 2 frame margin of error at their most lenient aswell as requiring you to have the right distance for your next normal to be within range. It may just be my imagination, but even the windows for her cancels into specials and her Super seem to be smaller than for other characters. Just loosen things up a little bit so she can be more user firendly and get some more player representation. They’d improve her close block string and tick throw game also.

  4. Combos. I like the suggestion of buffing the damage on her heavy Spirals, just so that she gets a little more umph when there’s an opportunity to punish. As it stands her optimums without a charged Super ready are something like 200 damage max without a jump-in and you’re only getting mid to high 200s there anyway which is pathetic. Add 50 points onto those and you’re talking something a bit more like it, even with Super tacked on it’s completely reasonable. Again, the HP Reflect into Soul Throw should do quite solid damage additionally.

  5. Her Soul Spark game is currenly carried too much by the LP version, I think. Her HP Spark is monsterously vulnerable to jump-in punishes. I’ve spotted the HP start-up from half screen, reacted, moved in with Chun Li’s huge floaty jump, had a coffee, floated down and landed a deep j.HK in Rose’s face. Now it’s supposed to have the best recovery and speed of the 3 at the cost of the largest start-up. While the speed is very good; with a startup like that, even with half the recovery it currently has it would likely still be well balanced and valid. HP is a fast Soul Spark, not a Shakunetsu Hadoken.

Just these adjustments to her Soul Spark and Reflect game should immediately be enough to increase the viability of her Ultra to a satisfactory level without having to put in extra questionable things like HP Reflect - FADC - Ultra or whatever. Think of what the better characters like Seth can already do.

I believe with these modest changes listed: she should be a perfectly reasonable, solid and competitively viable character.


#15

The easy fix would be A2 Rose.

But in all seriousness:

  1. Change Rose’s ultra from Shamwow to Soul Illusion. SI has much more potential than that. Shamwow sucks BTW.

  2. A reliable reversal (EX spiral or EX reflect)

  3. Add the pushback back to sparks. Basically, the scarf pushes away your opponent when you do sparks. It would help in some matchups (Gief!)


#16

the rag wouldn’t be so bad if half the character roster couldn’t bait you into wasting it. I’ve almost given up on using it vs jump-ins.


#17

I want a fast overhead.

That’s it tbh.

That’s all of Rose’s problems.

Who cares if she has no reliable reversal?

Her pressure game would be so much better.


#18

Just some thoughts:

  1. give crHP float property (like in SFA 3) and soul throw juggle property, now we can do crHP to soul throw.

  2. Absorb can absorb all kinds of one-hit move in the game

  3. Give an overhead (like Bison 623 P in CVS); it can link to LP on hit; it can be delayable to give some frames advantages; to balance, make it a very close range move

  4. Absorb increases damage property not only of soul spark but all of her special moves, or increase other property like give more range or active frames to soul spiral, give soul trow invincibility frames, give reflect more reflect frames, give spoul park more pushback force, let aura soul spark damge increase. We must have 2) to have 3) effective against all the cast

  5. give normal soul spark juggle property (like ex one).

  6. Soul illusion: push it back but as a special move with a lot of startup; LK, MK, HK will give respectively 1, 2 and 3 ghosts. EX version will have LK slowest startup, MK time period in soul illusion state and HK 3 ghosts

  7. Make illusion spark delayable, invincible until release to all moves except low ones (yes for Cammy)

She ll become very outbreak character with all these stuffs, lol (and trust me, i think capcom doesnt want her to be top tiers!)

For now i think rose doesnt need a lot of changes she s already good and i have more pride when i win because she is not high tier character.


#19

I guess i could live with out an overhead since i have been
doing so this whole time.I still would like one though perferably
what is said but, a if we get a decent OH ill be ok.

A major problem to me is the range on the
drills. I understand we can use mp and ex in place of lk drills
but with mp u risk getting blocked or hit and with ex i think it forces
us to use meter when we shouldnt have to. This problem could be
fixxed i think by changing mp drill start up from 15 to either 13 -14.

This is a small thing but how come we dont get counter hit boost on ultra
its not like we have the ease of using it all the time and we dont get chip damage
so i dont see why we cant get some kind of boost i was thinking 510 or 515 for the counter hit.

oh just in case i wasnt clear about the change i suggested with the Hk drill
we would still be able to do cr.mp into the drill we choose. Its just that it would be like it is now where the combo isnt garunteed unless its not blocked or ur not hit out
it. It would still connect like normal. I read over what i said earlier and it kind of seemed like i might have been saying if you dont use a Hp or Hk before the Hk drill it wont work with any thing else.(just wanted to clear that up)


#20

Techincally, jLK is an instant overhead, not a true one though.