Should fighting games be "accessable"?


#1

So I haven’t put a lot of thought into this, but it just dawned on me. So MVC3 is really newbie friendly and it’s really upsetting for marvel fans because quite frankly they’re the ones who kept the fighting game scene alive for the 10 years when capcom wasn’t giving us new games. Then they came out with MVC3, which was a troll move because they pretty much labeled TVC2 as MVC3 and I can just imagine some asshole laughing at every Marvel fan from behind a desk somewhere. We bought TVC because we thought we were voting for MVC3 damnit! Nobody actually likes TVC! We were told that if the game sold we’d get MVC3! It’s like telling a kid they can have desert after finishing their spinach, then surprising them with a desert composed mainly of spinach! And shit.

Because seriously MVC3 is fucking awful.

So I got to thinking about why MVC3 is easy mode and I realized it’s because they want to bring in newbies and that makes perfect sense. I get that, but are you really helping scrubs by making them as good as pros in just a week of gaming?

For one, scrubs have fun playing fighting games even when they’re just mashing. That’s sorta the beauty of fighting games, they’ll enjoy themselves if they can play to the level of their competition, which for scrubs is other scrubs.

What I don’t get is why they lowered the ceiling . They made it so that everybody can be competitive at the highest levels and it doesn’t make sense for their core group of fans who have been playing fighting games for like 15 years. What are they supposed to do?

Does anyone here have any reason why? I can get that they want everybody to be able to play, but at the highest levels? Reward people who know how to play fighting games and devote some time to it and have talent.

Whatever, I’ll be waiting for a real Marvel vs Capcom 3 and I guess I’ll go to EVO again this year, but thankfully this year the only game in the official lineup worth watching is SF4 and even that game is scrubby. I can get away without paying though so that’s a plus.


#2

I see what you’re saying kind of but I can’t help but think that you’re trolling while reading the 2nd half of your post, especially when you said “real” MvC3 and “SF4 is scrubby.”

Maybe the OGs here can try to give a better answer and/or “judgement” on your post.


#3

Here. Basically I’m saying it doesn’t make sense to try and make fighting games more accessable because scrubs will like fighting games anyways. More than any other genre, I feel like fighting games cater to scrubs because usually the difficulty level of a fighting game depends on your competition and if scrubs are playing against each other, they’ll enjoy it no matter how shallow or deep the game is.

I’m saying they should make games more difficult to play, like CVS2 level difficulty because it rewards the core group of fans and it gives newbies something to work at that they can’t achieve in a week.


#4

I dont see much of a problem with MVC3 personally, I wish the damage was lower overall and Sentinel got tweaked (not because hes overpowered, we’re used to that in many games) but because if you fight him in low damage, it feels like it takes a week to kill him, which screws with the fights flow imo.

I havnt got an opinion on X-Factor atm, so far against the few people I have fought its been easy to run away, but thats not a fair enough indication of the big scene.


#5

Easy games = Easy $$$$


#6

I do believe that fighting games should be accessible to newbies, new blood can’t hurt a series. BUT! While the games should be accessible to new players, they shouldn’t alienate those that wish to take it more seriously either.

BlazBlue handled this pretty well, giving Beginner Mode to those that want to mash-a-combo, and leaving the normal mode for people that want to put in the effort. Beginner Mode is far from perfect, but it does at least give even weak players the opportunity to feel like they’ve got a fighting chance.


#7

MvC3 hasn’t even developed high level play yet. How about you go learn to block and punish properly?

Not going to lie, I’m losing a lot on xbl because I keep getting caught by random stuff that turns out to be safe for them on block or I whiff a move and get caught by a random hyper, and it pisses me off.

2 months from now, things will be different.


#8

What the fuck is “accessable”? Is that anything like accessible or am I just fucking stupid?


#9

accessibility doesnt matter a single bit and marketing does


#10

yes they should, just like Super Turbo which isnt exactly viewed as being scrub friendly.


#11

Most “hard” stuff in fighting games tends to be stuff that wasn’t intentionally put there in the first place. Stuff like reflies are hard but they exist by virtue of the system allowing it. This overwhelmingly tends to be the case for “high level” techniques. They’re mostly all exploits rather than intentional design choices.

Fighting games should develop organically, not have difficulty be artificially imposed. Geese pretzels and 1-frame links make things harder but they don’t make things better.

I subscribe to Albert Einstein’s principle. “Make everything as simple as possible. But no simpler.”

Whether or not MvC3 succeeded in that regard remains to be seen but intentionally walking into the design with “make it harder” is not the solution.


#12

Whenever people speak of CvS 2 like this I really wonder if they actually played the game back when it was in arcades, because one of the biggest complaints people had with CvS 2 (before roll-cancels and Bison/Sakura A-groove shenangans) was that it was too “scrub” friendly, and it allowed too many bullshit comeback wins.

To answer your fighting game, it makes perfect sense because they generate more revenue this way and at the end of the day, that is all they care about. Businesses typically operate on a short-term basis (as in a year), they really don’t care what happens 5 years down the line because shareholders and those that hold a lot of equity in the firm will not wait that long.

Continuing on that point, you guys had more than enough opportunities to support Capcom when they released games like CvS 2 and the like, but you guys either dropped the ball or your numbers weren’t enough to justify continued development in that direction according to Capcom, I’m sorry, but that’s the sad reality of it. All future Capcom games, and probably, all future major fighting games will continue in the trend of SF IV, and if you guys don’t like it, well, there isn’t anything you can do about it for the time being I’m afraid to say.

Your argument that scrubs will like fighting games anyway is pretty generalized and doesn’t really take into account the evolving demographic and demands “gamers” expect of games nowadays. Sorry, this entire thing was just a “cry more” type of post that people yearning for the past seem to love to do while conveniently ignoring the things that actually matter to Capcom: their earnings reports.


#13

look everyone its that guy thats in every thread where someone mentions sales, the “corporate dick-sucking shill” guy


#14

That still happens though, even in games that are deemed “too scrubby” when they come out… MvC2, ST, SF3, CvS2, SF4, BB, T6, etc.


#15

Well, it kinda was for its time.

I really think more games need to make more of Easy and Normal mode execution styles. Don’t call them easy and normal, call them something like Simple and Complex, or something like that.

?Make Simple mode’s inputs more like Mortal Kombat’s were, <<Back, Forward+Punch>> for a fireball, etc. Make Simple mode simple but not so much so that people who choose that mode feel like retards, (i.e. making a fireball input Forward+Punch or any of that crap.)

?Make Complex mode whatever the inputs normally would be (assuming we’re talking about a SF type game.)

There are ways to cater to both audiences, I just don’t think Capcom is really putting their thinking caps on.


#16

hahahahaha.

its always nice to have a grown up come in here and reminds us kids that Capcom is a business


#17

Please explain other than the 3D models and button scheme just what makes this TvC2 and not apart of Marvel? At it’s intially designed level, MvC2 is just as easy as MvC3, except it has really low damage and lots of time outs. Magic series combos and all that shit were what the game was literally designed to be.

lol yeh sure

Yes because Fighting games sell SOO well don’t they and take up SUCH a huge portion of the market.

Do you know half of what made those games difficult, or in the case of MvC2, 100 percent of all the difficulty? The players, the community, they developed things (not just combos or glitches) that took the game(s) to new heights. Any competitive game is made half by the developer, half by the community. You don’t want to wait for that to happen, you want Capcom to fix everything for you and Seth to upload a video to show you how to play the game.


#18

This is a whole lot of truth right here. On the surface SF2WW is an incredibly easy game yet there is a lot of nuance and emergent complexity. I don’t think anyone thinks any SF2 is “easy”.

OP don’t confuse “difficult to play” with “complex”.


#19

I sure do love troll threads that are posted simultaneously on /v/.


#20

Within reason, yes.