Should Judgement be allowed in Third Strike?


#1

What do you say? Let the game break a tie, or the players?


#2

Because of judgement there aren’t any ties, so there’s no need to break them. Just like we don’t turn the time limit off even tho technically it decides some matches.


#3

I suppose. But with the time limit, we know that the winner is always chosen on the basis of vitality. How does judgement decide on who to give the match to? Does player performance amount to anything? If it doesn’t, you can count on hearing of some players feeling cheated after all the more effort they’ve put into the match over their opponents.

I know this question probably came across as silly, so if this isn’t such a big concern and everyone would rather see the matches flow without delay, then I digress.


#4

The first player wins if neither player presses a button, but i don’t think it’s random past that. IMO to go changing things like that would be over anal-yzing.


#5

A match that comes down to Judgement should be replayed.


#6

I disagree.


#7

FMJaguar: do you really want a machine telling you that the guy you just fought played better than you?


#8

If i didn’t want a machine to determine the winner, i wouldn’t play video games.


#9

Okay ppl, this is how judgement works…

the victory goes to the player w/ the most points. if by some small, tiny,miniscule chance plyr scores r tied, im pretty sure the cpu chooses pl1 as a defalt setting.

oh, and dont waist ur time seeing who can mash buttons faster, cuz dat shit dont work. it’s SCORE, ok?

obviously if u land more hits/throws, u’ll have a higher score.

10011.00011.01111.10010.00101.


#10

I thought you only get scores in single player games?


#11

GF2: Points can be accumulated in versus play.

Should Judgement be allowed in Third Strike?

Yes. I’ve come a long way to attend. Don’t ban me :slight_smile:


#12

judgement is part of the game, and therefore is allowed.


#13

That’s good to know. So I guess it is ok for me to use Akuma in ST, switch my team order before the match in MvC2 and CvS2, and do 99% damage throws with Karin in A3 because it’s a part of the game, and therefore it is allowed. Get real dude.

In every Street Fighter game before hand, in the event of a double KO or a time out with equal energy in the last round, both players lose their game. Therefore the match is replayed. This makes sense from a tournament perspective because you want a clear winner. Both players can’t lose. Someone has to win.

The only purpose Judgement serves is to keep both players from losing their game in the event of a double KO or time out. This makes sense in casual play to keep someone on the machine. The game could just randomly pick a winner, but instead they have the neat little Judgement thing that serves the same purpose.

But in a tournament match, using Judgement to determine a winner is completely and utterly ridiculous. Street Fighter isn’t about scoring points, it’s about defeating your opponent. Sometimes it takes an extra game to determine the better player. It is like a tie in sports, you go into overtime.

Allowing the game to pick a winner is stupid. Do you even know what the critieria for Judgement is? I hope you aren’t up against a Necro player, his girlfriend is one of the judges. She always votes for her man. There’s tons of silly biases with all the judges (all of which are female) which are meant to be funny. Judgement isn’t supposed to be taken seriously. It’s just a way to prevent both players from losing their game. It is NOT supposed to be used to determine the winner of a tournament match.

Judgement is stupid and any match that goes down to Judgement should be replayed.


#14

im sorry you didnt get to read the rules for specific games, but those items you’ve mentioned have been banned for the longest time. Judgement isnt infact a game breaking glitch, so therefore it cant be banned.

I hardly think you or any other capcom player knows how the judgement system works. Unless you can get a capcom programmer to post and explain exactly how it was programmed, I dont think you have any validlity in your argument.

If you are that worried about getting a judgement, you should play necro then =P


#15

It doesn’t have to be a game breaking glitch to not use it. It has to either give one player an unfair advantage, or just be plain stupid. Judgement is both of these.

Again, I will explain how every other SF game works. In the final round, if a double KO or time out happens with equal energy remaining, both characters lose. This is part of the game, we should go by that right? Ok, tournament finals, double KO, both players lose! I guess the 3rd place guy wins right? No. That would be stupid. You play the match again to determine a real winner. 3s isn’t any different. It has an equally stupid final round double KO situation. Just because it is there, doesn’t mean it should be used.

Anyways, here is how the 3s grading system works. There are 4 categories which you recieve points for: Offense, Defence, Technical, and EX points. The sum of those determine your grade. These grades range from G to MSF. The character with the highest grade wins the Judgement. If both characters have the same grade, the character with the higher score wins. If both characters have the same grade and same score, the 1p always wins.

The purpose of the Grade Judgement system is primarily for the single player mode. It’s another form of high score players can shoot for when they finish the game. The goal is to get a final sum grade of MSF. The grade also determines what level of the basketball bonus stage you get to fight at. It just also happens that it is used for the Judgement as well. Judgement makes sense in a casual game so both players don’t have to lose their game. It makes no sense in a tournament situation. In a tournament match, you aren’t going to go for things that get you the highest score. Things like whiffing moves to build super bar, or to control space with buffered supers, this will lower your offense rating. Not being totally random and guessing and trying to parry everything, but instead actually blocking, this will lower your tech rating. The rating system does not determine the better player. No rational person would want to decide a tournament match from Judgement.

Judgement is stupid, and it gives the 1p an unfair advantage. The same rules that apply to every other SF game in replaying the game should be applied to 3s.

(And btw, the Necro thing was a joke. But the point is that there is bias towards 1p and the arbirtrary assignment of points. And that Judgement is stupid.)


#16

Can anyone tell a difference between a tie, a one pixel win, and a one pixel loss? i doubt anyone can put together all the formulas regarding damage in 3s and say “I should have won”. We don’t play the game that way, we control our characters, and ultimately we do let the machine determine a winner through formulas impossible for humans to calculate in real time during a match (even if you can explain them on a forum). The only difference between judgement and a close win, is that one tells you the computer is choosing a winner, and one gives you the illusion that you really deserved that 1 pixel win. Lets not even get into rounding, does .5 damage go up or down?

Replays are IMO a last resort. For instance a broken joystick or button will determine a winner regardless of ANY skill factor, the absolute best players will still lose if they cannot block. This far outweighs a judgement, to even get to that point, we have to assume that the players have played equally well, judgement will never favor a worse player, it simply picks between two equal ones, the result was going to be random regardless. Judgement is just quicker than playing another entire match.

As for consistency the same rules apply to 3s as any other game, let the game decide the outcome FIRST, if it is not acceptable, then we have no choice but to invoke the last resort option to replay the match. The reason draws are replayed is not because we don’t like draws, but because a bracket cannot continue on a drawn game, if we used swiss, draws would probably not be replayed. I feel that version of the rule is consistent, and explains all the cases in question.


#17

Well said mopreme, if what you’re saying about Judgement is true, then it should not determine the winner in a tournament.


#18

I may be kind of outta the loop here, but please define “game-breaking” to the miniscule level

I haven’t really been in the tournament scene that long, but I’ve never seen a judgment in tourney play…

can anyone give examples of when this has actually happened?
I’d like to know more about how judgment affects the outcome of a match


#19

judgement is a TERRIBLE way to determine a winner. i, as well as MANY people that i know, would be outraged if i lost because of judgement


#20

Well…

In arguments like these, you’ve got to take into account the consequences if such an event would happen in the finals. What if Daigo Umehara lost to Mopreme in the Grand Finals because of Judgement?

Probably the biggest cry of BS ever.

A Street Fighter tournament isn’t about who can fight with more style or flashier combos. It’s about who wins, period. Just as playing against the computer isn’t a good way to judge how good you are at a fighting game, the computer isn’t a good judge of who played better during a match.

If you really don’t want to replay the entire match, I say play with the same characters - first to win one round.

I agree with everyone who says that Judgement is a terrible way to decide a match. In addition to my argument that the computer is a bad judge, I’d have to think that the players have taken Third Strike to a level that wasn’t imagined by the programmers. Even if they had the forsight to predict what 75 percent of the games might be like, the extra 25 percent won’t be graded.

In other words, a player might get a lower grade for repeated kara-throws, even though it is a highly powerful tactic. This effect, like roll cancelling, probably wasn’t intended by the programmers. Thus, if the programmers didn’t intend for this to happen, then obviously the grading system won’t look favorably on such tactics.