Sim Vs. T Hawk

dhalsim

#1

Hello

i have not found thread about this match-up
so decided to open new one,

T, Hawk the new Gief ?

well i think he’s a little bit easier, because he dont have that badass green hand

i was playing against very good Hawk player in the first days of SSFIV release
and here is what i have to say about the match-up

u can zone Hawk pretty easy, but 1 mistake will cost u alot

j.mp or j.hk is very good in this match ( T Hawk love to be in the air )

if u block T Hawk dive u can punish with s.HP , its like u do with blanka ball
but becarful of its short dive he will land right in front of you to do the 360 motion :crybaby:

while in ground standing mk is very good choice against Hawk’s specials (not the EX)

becarful when to throw a fireball pay attention to the distance , and better dont throw fireballs when Hawk has meter

this is what i have for this match-up , which is not much because i didnt play enough to understand everything

what about you guys?
any information regarding this ?
excuse my english :chat:


#2

blocking a condor dive gets you a free U2.


#3

i didnt think of that , because i dont use U2
but this sounds nice, will try it :smiley:


#4

It’s tough adjusting to U2, but I’d say it’s borderline necessary in certain matchups =) I very highly encourage giving it a try. You can punish SO many things with it… you can punish THawk’s missed condor, EHonda’s headbutt, Blanka’s ball, Vega’s ex-roll-kick, etc etc

Check out the U1 vs U2 thread to get some ideas :smiley: My biggest gripe of U2 is that it sometimes comes out for me when I attempt an IAT :frowning: But that’s because my execution has much to be desired.


In regards to this thread - you mentioned my favorite weapon vs. THawk — jumping fierce kick. This stuffs all of his wake up and mid-air moves when properly timed (excluding ex tomahawk/condor). If you can tell that he is going to whiff a condor dive, do a Yoga Tower, he will almost surely attempt a throw or SPD, which will whiff and you can punish with a bNb or with a back-throw to resume zoning. I abuse standing mp and mk when Hawk is grounded, and b+hk aa is godlike against him (though it trades with condor dive). He is MUCH easier to defeat than Gief was in vanilla IMO


#5

I have been playing a lot of T. Hawk since Super came out and I can say Sim is no doubt a hard matchup for T. Hawk.

Unlike Gief, Hawk cannot reliably score knockdowns to close the gap and make Sim’s life miserable. EXGH is a fantastic tool that gives Gief a ton of mobility and makes him super dangerous. EX GH basically prevents Sim from doing anything unless he’s perfectly spaced and Gief can just bulldog his way forward to push Sim into the corner.

Hawk has nothing of the sort; he only has Condor Dive which is probably the most unsafe move in the game on block.
Sim can punish with U2, as mentioned, and he can AA with U1 (even though he’ll likely get hit too). He can try whiffing it / crossing up with it, but it’s hard against Sim because he can poke T. Hawk out of the air easily since his jump is so floaty. And, unlike other match-ups, he cannot whiff jab condor spires to build meter because Sim can punish. Still, Condor Dive is T.Hawk’s best tool in this match-up because he does deter Sim from throwing out reckless Yoga Fires or st. Fierces, even from full screen.

Also, Gief can combo into a knockdown off*a hit-confirmed jab or short whereas T. Hawk can mostly just follow up with jabs to st. Strong. His jumpins are not as good either. Other than jump down fierce (splash) most of his aerial moves have very few active frames so he’s easy to antiair , unlike Vanilla Gief who had some very low hitting, long lasting jump-ins like j. fierce or j. forward. Hawk can set up an ambiguous cross up with j. strong, but it has to do it really deep; if he does it too early it’ll whiff: either way Sim can AA easily with b. RH or b. strong. His jump is so floaty that empty-jump shannigans ala Gief are also out of the question. And he has no short jump (that I know of). He lacks Gief’s insane option-select flowchart options too (as of yet; he might have some godlike OS we don’t know about, but that seems unlikely according to people like UltraDavid).

That doesn’t mean he’s free though. He has insane damage out put: cross-up splash, cl. strong xxx EX spire, juggle into EX Tomahawk, EX CD does about 450 damage which is 50% for Sim. His jab Typhoon doesn’t do much damage, but it sets him up right next to you for a mix-up. Whiffed Condor Dives are super dangerous too, though Yoga Tower might be interesting in this case.

In my scrubby opinion, the matchup is 6-4 Sim. It might change in Hawk’s favor as the character develops though. Who knows.


#6

thats one of the reasons why i dont use U2
also i think U1 gives you more options and mix-ups idea, i mean u can do alot of stuff like IAT , j.mp , b.mp , st,lp , and best of all u can follow with super or at least HP


#7

Do you guys play on a pad? IA U2 is pretty much impossible for me to pull off on the regular 360 controller.

Yesterday I finally got around replacing the faulty buttons on my stick and I was baffled at how easily I was doing IA U2 to punish and on reaction. U2 is almost broken if done correctly. It’s that good.

And punishing Condor Dive with U2 is super easy with a bit of practice. 450 free damage on Block, and you can really scare a Hawk player from tossing it out.


#8

:qcf: + :r::df::uf: + :3p: thats IA U2

it works perfect with me in training mode


#9

Have yet to play a very impressive T-Hawk, but this match-up seems pretty hard for T-Hawk. It’s much harder for him to obtain meter than it is for Zangief and Condor Dive is a much easier move to counter than EX Banish Flat or Lariat for that matter (even though Lariat got nerfed). You just have to judge the distance of Condor Dive and see if it will whiff or not and you should be fine, especially if you just jump to avoid getting grabbed. Wonder if T-Hawk really has any good like Zangief Jumping body slam thing cross up -> crouching light kick -> lariat. I do know T-hawk can cross up like in Street Fighter II.


#10

Down fierce is a splash cross up. T. Hawk can then do st. strong xxx EX Condor Spire, juggle into EX Tomahawk, juggle with EX Condor Dive. 450 damage with 3 bars. He can also do st. strongx2 xxx regular tomahawk for an easy combo that knocks down for no meter. I personally like setting up fake crossups with meaty jump-in strongs and then follow up with a knock-down combo.

A well spaced Condor Dive also Crosses Up.

Unfortunately for Hawk, he doesn’t have any practical easy to hitconfirm combos leading into knockdowns like Gief does.


#11

the guy i was playing with which his main is Hawk
i met him at the tournament , and he said to me:
you are the only one that i will not pick my main for :slight_smile:
he picked rufus instead of Hawk lol


#12

My biggest difficulty with the Hawks I’ve played so far is that when he jumps, he seems to hang way too long so I screw up the timing on AA Knee and eat a ton of damage (this happens live too). Is that something anybody else is experiencing?


#13

I do not really find it necessary to have to anti-air T. Hawks Condor dive from the air with knee or b.mp because if you block it, he will bounce back and you can hit back with F.P (or Yoga Shangrilla). The risk is not entirely worth it unless you are sure you can hit them with AA knee, but I wouldn’t say it’s necessary to take. Getting hit though isn’t nearly as bad as getting hit by a dive kick from Rufus and confirming a combo into ultra or tornado, but it still hurts a bit.

If they whiff, you will just need to see that coming and jump accordingly if you think they are going to throw you, which you can try to yoga tower. Though if you do see him trying to jump, stuff him with jumping mp.

Don’t know if tower avoids ground condor, but I doubt it.


#14

I was talking about just an ordinary jumpin + normal attack from up close. I figure it’s just a timing thing but still a pain.


#15

You just have to wait. There’s no way to reliably anti air him with b.rh so just wait. Once he’s in the downward arc he can’t dive, so back dash or b.strong. if he dives you should have enough time (if you’re not in recovery) to mk slide and st.hp punish, or block it and land u2. Honestly I don’t really see any problem with this match because of what has already been said.


#16

My Match-up again T. Hawk go extremely easy. I discovered that most of Dhalsim’s attacks and escapes make it hard for T. Hawk to get on the inside. But Yes one screw up means T. Hawk Rape.

But here’s what I learned so far

The Condor Dive is easily canceled by the B.HK AA with good timing. (Use it as soon as you hear “condor”) with no trade. And throw in a S.HP as soon as he lands to if they fall for it get a free hit and put some space between you.

If they Jump with no condor dive they’re low speed should make em predictable enough to AA and push them back or yoga Blast them to be a jerk :3

U1 is excellent for this match up because there are so many ways of trapping them with it. (Condor dive, tomahawk, condor spire) I haven’t really tried U2 because I don’t use it :slight_smile:

Light Yoga fire is the easiest way to make them flinch and use escape moves that leave them open


#17

Useful tips

My Match-up again T. Hawk go extremely easy. I discovered that most of Dhalsim’s attacks and escapes make it hard for T. Hawk to get on the inside. But Yes one screw up means T. Hawk Rape.

But here’s what I learned so far

The Condor Dive is easily canceled by the B.HK AA with good timing. (Use it as soon as you hear “condor”) with no trade. And throw in a S.HP as soon as he lands to if they fall for it get a free hit and put some space between you.

If they Jump with no condor dive they’re low speed should make em predictable enough to AA and push them back or yoga Blast them to be a jerk :3

U1 is excellent for this match up because there are so many ways of trapping them with it. (Condor dive, tomahawk, condor spire) I haven’t really tried U2 because I don’t use it :slight_smile:

Light Yoga fire is the easiest way to make them flinch and use escape moves that leave them open

Yoga inferno is NOT an AA recommendation lol but a great punishment move


#18

i find it way too risky to AA condors with b.HK so i never do, just block and punish

lost a few matches just because i was greedy with the knee -> get knocked down and they mix you up few times it’s over

but that’s just me i like to play it safe

in this matchup i stay in the air a lot because dem hawks really like jumping around, j.mp j.rh with teleports all day


#19

This is a pretty easy match if you know what you can do. For example, knowing when condor dive will whiff or hit you on block. Either way, it’s a free punish, you just can’t wait too long or you’ll get grabbed. A missed condor dive can net you a free bnb if he ends up close to you while recovering (b. mk -> yoga flame -> inferno). A blocked condor dive can be punished by fierce or Yoga Shangrilla easily. Condor spire does not recover that quickly so that can also be punished, just look out for light punch spire on block and don’t get grabbed. You really do not need to jump a lot except when they are at grab range and have fully recovered from a move. Don’t bother to anti-air at all unless he is right above you doing something else that is not condor dive.


#20

you need to always anti air him when he start his jump
safe anti air , s.rh or j.mp

if you just block his dive its dangerous , he might make the small dive , this allow Hawk to land just in front of your face and then grab you
and while you are blocking expecting him to dive then get away so you punish him, instead you will see your self between his hands