Sins of online play

I’ve been having a few conversations lately concerning cheating over online play.
I myself have been accused of cheating by macros simply because I use teh Geifers ( pretty much suspect number one of accusations of macros along with teh Hugo’s ).

Geif’s 720 was put in teh game for a reason and that reason was for it to be used.
Taking off as much life as it does would piss anybody off after getting hit by it but for some to be able to hit it at almost evry chance available than he must be using macros.

The other way of cheating being “Lag Tacticts”

This one I have heard defined in diffrente ways so I’m not to sure what the real lag tacticts are. From my personal experience I’ve seen the game start lagging EVERY TIME the other person was in trouble. Then one time I was in a match with EvilSamurai and he dizzied me so when I saw I was dizzy I began to mash like a mad man and low and behold teh fucking game hit slo mo and all I thought was “fuck I look like a cheater”

Then in the Bad Games thread I saw lag tactics defined as jumping roundhouse into crouching roundhouse. This one really threw me off because isn’t that just a basic part of teh game ?

It was also brought to my attention that it is possible to "spot when some one is using macros because teh game will “stutter or freeze a split second” befor a special move comes out.

To make a long post short:

1 )What exactly are Lag Tactics ?

2 )How exactly do you spot macros

3 )Any way to “prove” that you are not using macros

Tactics that work well online but generally don’t work that well offline (or don’t work at all offline). These can range from abusing the input delay of online play, or abusing the slowness (or lag spikes) of the game.

Jumping around mindlessly online, is a lag tactic. In kof, rolling around the opponent to throw them, is a lag tactic. Spamming semi-hard to punish moves repeatedly relying on the fact that the opponent will fail to punish due to lag, is a lag tactic.

Can’t for sure but…there are some people that can’t seem to hit confirm combos 1-2 seconds after they should have stopped…so either their reaction speed is retardedly slow, they don’t care about hit confirming, or they are using a macroed combo…but most likely it’s one of the first two.

Yeah, screw up.

Alex’s stomp/SA3 is a pretty big lag tactic. “Acrobatic Hugo”, which is Hugo’s who pretty much use jumping down+HP like it’s fucking divekick. Akuma hurricane kick infinites. I’m sure there’s more, but that’s all I can think of offhand.

Yeah I remeber people hateing on fierce splash for Gief also. I don’t play much 3s and I didn’t know Hugo had one of those but I’m guessing people don’t like it cause it takes a shit load of life ? Can you really not get out of that shit ?

In ideal (Or even reasonable conditions) you can punish Hugo’s splash so easy, but online, forget it. Gief’s splash is an overall better move, so taking a beating from that isn’t as unreasonable. It’s a pretty damaging move, and when someone’s throwing it out twenty times a match in ~10 frame delay, it’s disgusting.

j.rh into c.rh 1991 shoto combo on HF XBL is a massive lag tactic. it feels like you block the jump attack, yet cant block the low attack in time. then they can switch it up and ampty jump then sweep. its insanely hard to stop online, yet is basically the dumbest thing you can do overall offline…

The jumping body splash isn’t a nuisance as most poeple protest. Lag tactics are the advantages people usually abuse online that give their opponent a major disadvantage. For one thing Sabre pointed out the jumping RH combo, also a horrid gift from sagat on ST and a few other characters as well.

A macro would be a massive accuracy rate on combos that require strict time to execute, one example would be deejays machine gun blow combo on ST, or zangief/thawks accurate 100% never miss tick throws Online which even some good palyers tend to screw up once in awhile. Half of the time you will see people execute these combos flawlessly online, after experience you will point them out.

1991 shoto combo HAHAHAHHAHAHA

This is because mashing often results in things getting slowed down temporarily on online connections, because you’re sending out more inputs. So when it slows down you end up registering even MORE inputs than you would at normal speed, and hence you can mash out of dizzies faster.

I remember when GGPO first went public, it was using Final Burn instead of Final Burn Alpha. Final Burn was REALLY bad about slowing down when lots of inputs were being registered. I did the exact same thing as you, managed to accidentally slow the game down and mash out of the dizzy in an instant, and the guy called me a cheater. Good times!

Lag abuse in 3s is when yourself or your opponent overuses/abuses a move which is more difficult to parry, block or punish over a latent or lag ridden connection. Using other moves to cover blocked or whiffed moves is also abusive in certain cases. Here are a few examples:

Ken: Blocked Shippu into SRK (Usually fierce SRK > many times EX Fierce SRK), blocked Jab DP into another Jab DP in point blank range. MK crossup abuse.

Ryu: Full screen Denjin. Since this is guaranteed damage against most characters who don’t have moves to evade it and on some occasions, stun, on every knockdown unless you parry it, handling a Denjin player chucking these at you from a distance is a real pain.

Akuma: Spinkick spam (usually HK). Other moves that he has aren’t lag abusive per say, but the timing for parrying them is messed up, such as HP red fireball into Demon Flip sweep.

Makoto: Everything she has? Lol. But seriously though: Naked Dash Punches, dash in throw abuse.

Ibuki: F+MK overhead spam (I could be wrong on this)

Alex: Headstomp abuse.

Elena: Blocked SRK into another SRK on point blank (sometimes EX), Spinning Beat blocked into EX SRK.

Hugo: Body Splash crossup spam, especially on your wakeup

Here are some tactics that I personally find very annoying which are also used by most players I run into on the servers. I usually probably cut my session short with people who play like this regardless of I’m winning or losing:

Ken: SRK spam. Many go unpunished in latency

Ryu: Naked Tatsus

Sean: Full screen Bannana Kick. Should be easily parriable and punished, but goddamnit it’s extremely annoying when I miss it sometimes

Akuma: Red Fireball into HK Demon Flip sweep, Tatsu spam.

Alex: Full screen slashes. Constant jumping HK into throw. Constant Headstomps on wakeup, random SA3

Q (lolol yes, there are even annoying Qs) constant sweeping. Dash punching relentlessly fullscreen against Urien, Chun and any other character that nullifies his dash punches easily with normals.

Dudley: Fullscreen EX Machine Gun Blow. It’s really annoying when you parry like 4 hits and get his by the rest, or when you parry 5. Or even when you get hit by 7 of them!!

Dudley Corkscrew blow into another corkscrew blow or EX Uppercut (I’m pretty sure this is a lag tactic).

Yun: His GJ is incredibly hard to deal with in a latent connection. Alternating between high and low blocking always seems harder when I’m playing online.

Urien: Random Tackles and Kneedrops. Jab Aegis in midscreen after throw, crossup into UB. The timing for quick rising online seems to vary sometimes. Many times delay increases causing the timing to change altogether. It’s annoying having to suffer such heavy damage just because of that.

Non character specific things that piss me off: Excessive sweeping and excessive use of UOH and post round taunting.

Lag abuse was something I was all too familiar with on XBL, since I regularly ran into players with poor connections. Even though I don’t get as many bad connections on servers as I used to on XBL, the level of lag abuse is just as bad there as it ever was on XBL.

i think the only sin when playing online is crying about lag.

he may be essentially correct,playing many opponents im sure i’ve come across a few players that had mapped their shoryu, but otherwise their gameplay was non existent.

I’ll comment first on what Dj Frijoles mentioned about mashing causing lag. This happens when i hold down all the buttons i can make the game lag almost at will but it messes me up as well as my opp so why bother.
Lag Tactics have been used for a long time in online play. There are various types of Lag. there is the Lag of being online and the type of Lag that exists in certain console games such as ccc2. Online Lag can be used with certain characters much more easily. A character such as Claw who is so fast that you need to have excellent reactions to counter most his moves. He is the #1 culprit of Lag tactics (especially for reaction based player). Your reactions are now slowed by the simple fact that you are playing online. this is a game of frames. Every frame is crucial. I have seen players dominate online but when it comes to arcade gaming they are brought way back to the pack. Some players do not know they are using these tactics its just in the mechanics of the game online! So they take it as bible, but this cannot be applied in the arcade only online. Back to Claw and his tactics. Here is an example of how the Lag tactics abuse works. Claw gets a knock down, goes for a cross-up wall dive. Most characters have a counter for this lets use Ken for an example. Ken should be able to DP the cross-up on wake up. But by the time the cmp has read the inputs of the button press, claw has already hit him and knocked him down again. REPEAT FOR GAME! The lag prevented him from countering. Now you can always block, But when you are used to being able to counter this you go into denial mode and refuse to believe that you are being hit.
Another foul tactic is the TURBO BUTTON. this is mainly abused by GIEF, HAWK, Chun , Honda and Blanka. This was used Mostly with 360 characters, and not so much Blanka. There was a guy on Xband years ago who had one of the craziest Zangiefs, he could do up to 5 low jabs then 360. he fully admitted to using a turbo pad. I have video of this if i can ever get it converted to DVD. Another player was IRonmonkey? He was a Chun player and was able to get priority on all throws, this was quite annoying.
Propads (programmable controllers) 1 button DPs and 1 button FBs. This by far the largest group of cheaters. B/c basically you have been given a God button. But liek all people who would have god powers are prone to abuse then and often do not know how to use it properly, randomDPDPDPDPDPs =yougetpunishedyougetpunishedyougetpunished! But in the proper hands they are deadly!

I reason the same way.

GATDAM that sounds like a big chunk of the game that is not alowed to be used because of an unwritten “online honor/ style of playin” That actually reminds me of back in teh 1991 days when there was an unwritten LAW about tick throwing.
I seen muh fukas get into fist fights over this shit :rofl: That shit carried over from teh arcades into online play double fold because you don’t have teh looming threat of getting cracked by teh dude next to you.

I think I’m gonna agree here. Although there most likely is a couple people using
one button special moves, I think the majority of us on teh scene love the game we play to much to be using macros. And lets face it, WE PLAY A LOT.
With all that experience we are bound to get good enough to pull off some crazy shit every once in a while.

I could agree with you if we were back in the Mame 0.64 days but nFBA gives me a fighting chance to block and reversal. Claws wall dive game is the same in teh arcade as online and like tick throwing, that shit was also frowned on. Ever hit I’ve taken from that cross up goddness from claw on nFBA was because I blocked the wrong way. And to the Claw player that bitch slaped me with it, I give props for putting me in that situation, because my dumb ass let myself be put there.

oh online i get acused all the time of using auto fire or macro cuz my guy combos.
i just ignore it and let em drop.

You’re just about right, but Ibukis F+MK is easily stoppable. Just block high. You also forgot blocked EX joudan into SRK.

Don’t play if theres more than 3 frames of delay. Thread over.

I think complaining about “lag tactics” is silly. I mean, sure, if there is noticable lag then many tactics will work better then they would otherwise. But thats not the fault of the person who uses them. If the game is screwed up by the existence of lag tactics then you either have to accept it and play the different game you happen to be playing, or stop and go do something else with your time.

What are you going to do, make rules about how many times a round you’re allowed to jump in?

That said, with the current online setup lag isnt bad at all, so this is moot.

As far as paranoia about macros and turbos…

whatever, I prefer to play against the best comp I can. Think of macros and turbos as “better opponent simulators”.

I dont actually think there’s much turbo and macro use out there, but for the above reason I just dont bother thinking about it.

:u: Wins thread.

:u: Also wins thread.