Slide/Press Alternate Set Ups and Slide/Oil Set Ups

hakan

#1

This is a thread dedicated to doing things other than safe slides and s.mp, j.hks after slide/press and also for techniques one might use after slide-oil. My theory, for some time, has been that s.mp, j.hk set ups are too player unfriendly for Capcom to have meant Hakan to rely so heavily on it. Lately, I’ve found slide/press jump-over to be useful and particularly seems promising due to oily EX dive suddenly becoming a viable move, when prior to the last couple of weeks, I had successfully used it ZERO times.

Because of that, I’ll start out discussing crouching characters against whom slide/press, jump-over, oily EX dive goes over their heads. I’ll also specially mark those crouching characters against whom mk dive goes over. (Keep in mind that the EX oily dive’s slow start up is not a major problem, since opponents are forced to react to Hakan upon wake-up. Wake-up jumps, back dashes and throws will get stuffed, as the dive starts just a few frames prior to wake-up and completes its animation as the character has already committed to their wake-up move.)

Cody +mk dive
Cammy +mk dive
Juri +mk dive (throwable)
Sakura +mk dive (throwable)
Vega +mk dive (throwable)
Guy
Adon
Chun-Li
Ibuki

In discovering this, one must believe there would be effective mix-ups to counter opponents doing normals, reversals and simply sitting there doing nothing. Beyond the obvious, like wake-up ex rocket, there is s.mk, OS f.mk (to deal with back dashes), EX rocket after a jump over. Variations on this technique could be discussed more in this thread, but that’s the basic one to beat normals and discourage opponents who neutral jump your wake-up EX rockets.

Similarly, after slide/oil, we might use DNC s.mk, EX rocket will prevent a wake-up neutral jump and rocket an opponent, even if they back dashed. Of course, DNC BNB is a good idea here, too.

Last but not least, to deal with more powerful reversals in a slide/press, jump-over situation, use a late c.lp+c.lk, which will counter throws as well. One might try variations on this, like c.lp+c.lk+c.hp, as well, to also punish most neutral jumpers. [edit]Against Chun Li and Juri, you need perfect timing for it to work. More difficult than one would think.

So that’s something to build on, for those that want to experiment and deviate from more traditional Hakan game-play. Hopefully, this will pan out to make Hakan a more powerful opponent.


#2

So a couple other things of note, against Bison, slide/press jump over, backward j.hk will stuff wake-up EX devil reverse and cause EX stomp to land right in front of Hakan. It’ll also punish throw attempts and trade with wake-up standing normals, like s.hk. Jump over, s.mk will cause EX stomp to whiff behind Hakan and will punish normals, as discussed above.

Against Rufus, jump over, slide OS FADC will create a great wake-up EX messiah punish situation, as EX messiah will take a sliver of damage knocking Hakan out of slide and landing harmlessly behind him.

Against Sagat, Abel, Guile, Zangief and T.Hawk, slide/press, neutral jump, lk dive will catch crouches and jumps.(Maybe a few others). Sagat, among others, is also vulnerable to OS lk dives on wake-up, e.g. s.mp, OS lk dive, to punish back dash.

Honda is vulnerable to jump over hk dive, as his wake-up is slow, so he can’t throw and hk dive will stuff butt slam in this situation as well.

Yun and a few others are vulnerable to having their lk and mk reversals stuffed by jump over lk dive, not to mention their throws.

Certainly, much more to come…


#3

What if opponents just DP after you land?


#4

Against some of these lower hit-box characters, if you’re dry, you can do j.mp, f.hk and find yourself in a very similar dive over their head situation. Clearly, you may be looking to throw them on air reset, and they know that. You can also oil dive over their head instead, to catch them in escape attempts.

You just block randomly and do c.lp+c.lk in case they throw. There’s also c.lp+c.lk+c.hp to slide under neutral jumps. [edit: I have to say, after using c.lp+c.lk+c.hp extensively against Ryu and Fei Long, I’m going to say it’s excellent against them. Punishes back dashes, reversals, neutral jumps and techs throws. Very effective.]

Do it late to block reversals and tech throws. You might also try a late walk-back throw attempt. Obviously, that’ll tech throws as well and might even get a throw in. Most opponents, from my experience, try to throw you. Many characters’ (non EX) SRK will get stuffed by normals, so those characters are less of a concern. In other cases, against Dudley, to deal with EX upper, you can jump over and empty jump over again to dodge it. A somewhat late air throw is safe here, too, if they jumped instead.

Obviously, this technique may be less effective against some, particularly Ryu and Ken. I would stick to more typical Hakan tactics maybe against them or perhaps switch to slide/OFU. After slide/OFU, it’s unlikely they’ll be anxious dragon punch from that far. Just go into the above strategies with DNC s.mk and go from there. I think I prefer this against shotokens over s.mp, j.hk, personally. Getting oily is so essential here that slide/OFU may be the better way to go, until you’re well oiled.

[edit]I forgot to mention that against dive over characters, j.mp, dry juggle f.hk is a good time to do a dive over. It’s good to do this in training mode first, because it takes the right kind of timing on the hit in order to get the right timing on the dive over.


#5

A couple new pieces of info. Slide/press, neutral jump, oily EX dive will beat Zangief’s EX glowing hand, surprisingly (as well as all throws, back dash and jump). Again, neutral jump, buffered 360 during latter part of jump into walk forward, EX rocket is good here when dry. That is, if you’ve used neutral jump, uncrouchable oil dive once or twice, to deter him from throwing you.

Also, I’m certain coward crouch won’t work on DP’s xx FADC, so one might consider after slide/ press, lk oil or slide/press jump over, buffering a 360 during the DP and doing oily EX dive to counter the impending throw. Gamble but it’s a big pay off. After jump overs, you’re close enough to beat lp DP’s with U2 and obviously hp DP’s or just block a lp upper and do U2. Ready made easy and powerful punish that can reliably beat DP xx FADC attempts.

[edit]Against Bison, slide/press jump over, s.mp OS slide will beat teleport well. Perhaps more interestingly, slide/press jump over, slide, ultra 1 will perfectly time against teleport.


#6

So, after experimenting with Juri and Sakura, mk dive isn’t any better against them than it is against Vega. It only goes over their head, if you’re a tiny bit late on it, which gives a throw opportunity. Bummer. Still, it’s awesome against Cammy and Cody, so I’m happy about that. Makes those matches significantly easier.


#7

Neutral jump uncrouchable dive requires perfect timing, as does catching neutral jumps with EX dive against Chun and Juri. Press the button(s) too early, and the lk comes out and delays your dive. You can see the animation for a split second, so watch for that to help your timing. Pretty frustrating, seeing as Chun is a hard character and being able to neutral jumps her attacks is a big help. Her quarter-circle kick gets beat by EX dive, too, which is nice. I wonder if maybe slide-oil is the way to go instead of press against Chun, Adon and Juri, as it’s much easier to control the timing of your EX dive. You must walk forward a tiny step to dive over them but not too far, or you’ll miss jumps.


#8

Here’s another useful piece of info. Since c.hp+c.lk+c.lp doesn’t work against Chun, since she back dashes too quickly, the way to go is c.mp+c.lk+c.lp. That’ll put her in air reset for more potential offense. Just as important, it gives you time to deal with neutral jump. C.hp does nothing useful against her neutral jump, of course. So, that should help on jump-over offense against CHun.


#9

what was that post slide/slam chun setup, similar to the gief’ one, that beat ex sbk?


#10

I would jump over, delayed c.lp+c.lk+c.mp. Think about U2 here, as well, against neutral jump. Also, practice the jump EX dive, so the timing will catch neutral jump. Once you’ve trained your opponent to not EX bird kick and to do more jumps and back dashes, EX dive will come in handy.

[edit]Also, I couldn’t get that Bison technique to work consistently against Chun-Li, so maybe we won’t be using that.


#11

Actually, I take that back. The technique does work on Chun. You just have to have good timing. I’ll try to have the video up tomorrow. I would stay up doing it tonight, but I have to be somewhere tomorrow.


#12

So I used an option select air throw in that new video, in case no one noticed :). Watch the fast motion dummy recording at the end.


#13

So, if anyone else has found that after an opponent sees a s.mk, OS f.mk, throw, they will block s.mk, then try to neutral jump or jab, you might consider this to really mess them up:

Slide-press, jump over, meaty s.mp, plinked s.mp, plinked c.mk. If the trap worked you might see a CH after the second s.mp. Confirm the CH and complete the c.mk with a xx slide/press. Otherwise, just let the c.mk stand and see what happens. This is really fun to try out, so I recommend playing with it in training at least. CH s.mp, c.mk xx slide/press does significant damage!

[edit] So it also occurred to me that if the first s.mp is a CH, the second will definitely hit. That means that if you see CH on the first hit, do plinked s.mp and follow that with f.lk xx slide. Double your chances of getting a slide-press in :).
[edit 2]Starting with s.mp pushes you too far away for f.lk against most characters. I guess c.lk would be first.


#14

So I settled on the following technique after slide-press, jump over, if I think they are jabbing: Slightly late s.mp to get CH, quarter circle forward, lk and wait to confirm at this point to press hp for slide. If there was no CH on the first hit, I can get a CH on the f.lk and easily get a c.lp xx slide. Easy combos that don’t require great timing.


#15

This is just repeating what I had in General Discussion: Against Bison, slide-press, jump over, s.lk, OS 7, c.lk+lp+hk. If the 7 is timed properly, you’ll air throw instead of doing a c.hk against stomp and devil reverse. The c.hk is for jumps and walking backward. Or just do s.lk, OS 7, lp+lk, depending on your opponent’s defense.

[edit]As it turns out, in order for this to work, there has to be a delay on the c.lk+lp+hk. Otherwise, the timing is off for the air throw. Furthermore, s.lk must also have a delay on it. As it turns out. s.lp, OS 7, lp+lk is tailor made for OSing air throw and ground throw. All other timing must reflect that.


#16

Against Zangief, slide-press, neutral jump f.lk will stuff non-EX pile driver but more importantly, you can CH lariat and confirm the CH by the second second f.lk and then do xx hp slide. Plus, c.mk xx mk dive can be interrupted if Zangief is crouching. That will, of course, also stuff lariat.


#17

Oooh. I like this. Wait so it’s counter hit f.lk > f.lk slide? Does this work on T.Hawk aswell?


#18

I haven’t tried it against him as of yet, but his SRK is easily counterhit. I’m not sure how T.Hawk would respond to slide-press, n.jump offense.


#19

You mean normal SRK? EX would be too good! I hate Hawk, when I knock him down with slide, it’s strange, I never feel like I’M the one in the favourable position, if you know what I mean. Any idea how this works with backdash? Maybe you could OS a slide off the first f.lk?


#20

It probably wouldn’t beat EX. In the past, I’ve tended to use wake-up oil dives on him. He’s very vulnerable to them, as they beat his nonEX SRKs. It’s also fun to get him to back dash and j.hk, c.mk xx hp slide, him at the end. Quite possible if you’ve scared him into it via oil dives and coward dives. That said, I think n.jump techniques will be viable, not unlike against Sagat and Zangief.