Smash Bros. Concept Stick - probably the worst idea ever, but is it possible?


#1

I’ve had the urge to create a stick for Brawl for a while now, and I finally have a plan. Ideally something like the Hori Wii stick would work, but it has a Classic Controller PCB. It’s impossible to map directional movements to a d-pad for all of the Brawl compatible control setups except for the Wii Remote without nunchuck.

So, first and foremost the stick either has to have an analog arcade stick (I don’t even think these exist and if they do it seems like it would be harder to wire than a normal stick), or to use the Wii Remote PCB. I’m gonna go with the Wii Remote PCB, which I thought might be limiting at first but in reality has more than enough inputs:

I’m thinking of matching them up something like this:

Seems simple enough so far, right? The taunt button would be off to the side using the pictured 18mm pushbutton. Home and pause would probably also use the 18 mm button and be placed somewhere out of the way. I’m thinking Happ for the main attack buttons, and the case itself will probably be very compact and slim. As a side effect of using the Wii Remote’s PCB, the stick will be wireless, so it would be nice for it to stay small.

The only part I am undecided on is the stick itself, due to what is easily the stupidest part of this project. If you notice in the mock up of how the buttons will be mapped, I have Shield (“B”) on the stick. I think it would be cumbersome to have Shield be next to the other attack buttons since its so frequently used for dodging/throws, so I’d like to rig up a button on top of the joystick itself like this:

This way, dodging would be a matter of pressing down with your left thumb and flicking the stick, as well as being able to throw while dashing forward by tapping the stick and then pressing down with your left thumb and hitting the attack button.

So, does anyone actually make/sell an 8 way directional bat top stick with a small button on top? Obviously if one exists it wouldn’t be by Sanwa/Seimetsu/Happ, so quality might be an issue. Since one does most not likely exist, is it technically possible to be able to wire a small button on top of a Happ stick by drilling up through the middle?

Outside of the potential hardware impossibilities, does anyone see any gameplay problems that could arise from that setup? I know this seems like a lot of work for a game that won’t even benefit from using a stick, but I think it would be a fun/interesting side project.


#2

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50700800.htm
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50800010.htm

and i’m not sure how you’d hook this up, but analog joysticks do exist

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50287600.htm


#3

I’ve thought about the same idea to, using the Wiimote. But then what happens when you are trying to navigate the menus? Pick the stick up and wave it around like a huge Wiimote? :bgrin:


#4

:rofl: just imagine that, really funny :bgrin:


#5

They do exist, and they would most definitely be harder to wire than a normal stick.

While I think the shield button would be better with the rest of the buttons, the only downsides are the limitations using a wiimote regularly would have; none of that dash, Z cancel, upsmash stuff, nor C-stick aerial shennanigans.

<plug> Also check out the Smash modes in the last couple of posts of the UPCB thread. I could always use input, can have the layouts and functionality changed without requiring a soldering iron, and even the current modes would allow more control options. </plug>


#6

There have been a couple threads in the past about this.

  • I know there’s a really good two-sided picture of the Wiimote PCB available somewhere on here.
  • I suggested the three-button Virtua Fighter layout previously, and I have a feeling you’d be much happier mapping them as follows:

2-1
-B-----

B is Shield, 2 is Attack, and 1 is Special. This will make it feel VERY similar to Virtua Fighter’s Guard Punch Kick configuration, especially since G+P is a throw and P+K is a heavy attack. Remember you can still jump by pressing up on the joystick (d-pad) just like in any other fighter.

To the best of my understanding, there is nothing movelist-wise you can’t do with good input timing. (Many commands in Smash have more than one possible method of being executed, which in Brawl I think even varies by controller type used.) This would be no different than any other fighter we play, what with sensitive execution being a mandatory factor in good gameplay.

Shoot, nobody thought of this previously. Do you really have to point like that even for the Wiimote-on-its-side configuration?!!


#7

As much as I dislike SSB, this is very cool. Good work, dooood.


#8

Chad over at lizardlick just put up hollow JLF shafts on his site.

I’ll bet that you could find a way to put like an 18mm button or even a test-switch button in the top of a ball or bat and then run the wires down in the hollow shaft. You could even get one of those super fat balls too to give yourself more space for the whole thing.

Just an idea…


#9

How does one do a floating d-air with Peach using the wiimote only? Pressing down on the wiimote would cause her to fall.


#10

http://triplemoonstar.brinkster.net/segashed/default.asp?stockid=1724

maybe that “analog” stick can help


#11

When trying not to die, mashing the stick and c-stick like crazy is essential in some situations. I may be lying, but mashing seemed even more important for staying alive in brawl compared to melee.

There is a very specific mashing system in smash actually. Say you fly straight up. Mash between db~df on both sticks. Fly right? mash between ub~db on both. Left? uf~df. You get it.

Anyway, lack of a c-stick automatically puts you at a severe handicap here.

Also learning how to control short hops would be a nightmare all over again if you did not use analog but thats just IMO.


#12

you could use the smaller buttons to be cstick buttons


#13

I have not an answer! (or a Wii with which to check) Would someone more Smashily endowed be so kind as to play around with this for us?


#14

I’ve been playing exclusively with this for a couple months now.

The digital controls work great for smash. double taps for dashes, tilts are much easier, short hops and most techniques are easy, you just have to relearn the timing.

There are limitations for sure though. without c-stick there is a lot of trouble pulling off certain techs. another thing is the wiimote button config cant turn off jump without losing the up direction as well so it makes up tilts very difficult to execute. you basically have to buffer them.

With these limitations it might not be worth it for a lot of players. I find it works great for the characters I play (gannon, ROB, DK) but it probably wouldnt be the most effective control type for a lot of characters (Snake, falco, anyone who really depends on up tilts).

If anyone wants me to test out techs with the stick let me know.

Edit - oh about the menu; you control it with the d-pad in the menus with the wiimote.


#15

Can you try the dash, Z-cancel, upsmash stuff? I’m really curious if it can be done by doing a throw (shield + A I think) instead of the Z button directly. I’m guessing the moves would be double tap direction, neutral shield+A, up+A+B (for the wiimote smash) if it could be done at all. There’s a thread on the technique in the Smash forum here.


#16

Wow, the first one is exactly what I am looking for…thanks! Now I just need to figure out how to wire it…

Also I knew an analog stick would be expensive, but $150+? Wow.

The first config you have in that thread seems pretty good…have you played with it yet?

Not to navigate the menus once you are in game, but to select the disc channel from the main Wii menu a pointer would be required…

Awesome, glad to see I’m not the only one wanting to try a stick for Smash. I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that a lot of characters wouldn’t be playable on the stick (like others have said, could you try to do a sliding mortar with Snake on your stick?), but I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to use Ganon successfully. Are you able to consistently shorthop his down air stomp without any landing lag? If so then I don’t see any downside to using a stick as far as Ganon is concerned…


#17

Doing the thunderstomps is no problem, id say its even easier. You input it like a kara throw from 3S but with a much bigger window. moving with it is also easy if you just do a fireball motion in the direction you want.

The sliding mortar is one of the first things I tried and right now it looks like its impossible. From what I read I thought it was impossible on the GC pad without using the c-stick as well, isnt it? either way, I’ll try it out again tomorrow and let you guys know.


#18

This is very, very, very, interesting. For the C-stick problem is there a way where you can just hold down a button that enables C-stick mode for the joystick or will that be difficult for you because you might have to input certain attacks as well. C-stick dilemma is an interesting one indeed. Although I am not interested in Brawl, I am interested in what you are doing to Brawl by using an arcade stick, I praise you as you are doing a difficult task. I hope you succeed but then I will be trying to figure out how contribute to this by thinking about that C-stick. This is going to bother me all night.


#19

IC’s disagree with this idea

interesting though


#20

So it looks like a no go on the dash attack canceling. I tried it for a couple hours yesterday with different button configs and no luck. without being able to turn off up jumping it seems like you need a c-stick to do it. but if anyone else wants to try it with a wiimote, I’d love to be wrong.