SNK Forgotten fighitng games thread


#1

Fatal Fury Special - strats & tacts. re-po

I have reposted here the main parts of the old -old & obscure thread dealing with Fatal Fury Special, luckily I had saved them before the big crash. Thanks to Josh, Middlekick, Chazmaru, Bonuskun and anyone elso who contributed.

Starting with my initial Tung Guide:

The way I play him is totaly dependant on keeping at a medium close range, just
outside most normals, he’s strong there. Try to think of the Shou-Ha fireball as just a giant invunerable hit box you can put infront of yuorself on command, kind of like a huge Yoga Flame. It will blast most normals, does excellent chip damage, makes an excellent meaty attack as the hit box hangs around for ages after you have thrown it, you can land opponents on it who jump in at certain ranges and if you trade hits with other fireballs you always come off better because it does almost double the damage
(this technique is especially usefull against wayward ex-student Cheng *Look on my avatar to see the tactic in use!).
His crouching Feirce has good priority at full range and can be cancelled into the Shou-Ha.
The standing Feirce is much faster though not as long as the crouching version and is a very good general poke / snuff move.
The crouching Roundhouse has much better range than it seems and can go under many fireballs, this is especially usefull as most characters fireball throwing frames step forward slightly so you whack their feet out from under them for free. This can also be cancelled into the Shou-Ha to form a good push out combo if they block.
The Sen-Shippo lunge punch is like Cammy’s cannon Drill in ST, it has a long recovery time. The key is to use it at a range where it only just clips the opponent at the end of its motion, this will bounce you out to safety and score chip damage.
Working at this close range rally pays off when you cand do Tung’s Super. Try to tag the Super onto blocked attacks, it does huge chip damage and pushes the opponent right back. When you get this down you can really put the pressure on inclose (this technique is so usefull I often take an extra hit just to get the bar flashing red).
The Gekihou (vertical spirit attack) is usefull with really early anticipation (cause it takes soo long to come out, they should have made this a Flash Kick motion not Hundred Hands), once it is out though it can stop many attack, especially dash attacks like Duck King’s Blanka Ball. It can also avoid most fireballs, the other day Cheng threw one of his arcing fireballs on my head and it fell right through me onto the floor! I’ll have to practice with this move more cause I bet you can do some bizzare things with it.
When inclose try to get the RessenKyaku (grab and kick move) off, it seems to have a little bit of suck in range like a SPD, having trouble getting it off on my pads though. If you find out the exact range please post.
His standing double hit Roundhouse can be worked into combos for huge damage, you can cancel the second hit into a special and even the Super!
Finaly remember how small Tung is, very hard to hit.
I don’t really know how strong my Tung is cause I don’t get any comp on this game , but the character just really appeals to me (I grew up on Shaw Bros kung Fu movies, anyone here seen One Armed Boxer 2 aka Master of the Flying Guillotine. The old master character in that is f**knig mad, also Dhalsim is in that movie!!)
That all I can think of right now, anyother Master Tan Players, please contribute.

quote:

Originally posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC

And one that I asked before with no reply…what is the “Guard Attack” you referred to at the beginning of this thread? I like knowing game-breaking things.

The Guard attack is performed by:

Tapping Back then Toward + A just before an attack hits you,
or just
Toward + A if you are already blocking.

It is an invunerable attack (usually a punch) that counters just about anything even Supers! Its like a SF3 parry that hits back! You can even dodge fireballs with it. Each Guard attack is different, Tungs for instance is a rubber armed anti air but it still beats all groung attacks. I try not to use it cause it basicaly negates most of the strategy in the game, I mean why would you use any other attack?. I can’t beleive SNK put in such a depth destroying Super move?!? Must have been the same muppett who thought up the line system (somethingelse I don’t use). IMO Take away line system and Guard attack and you have twice the game.


#2

Posted by Middlekick

Btw. What a strange coincidence, I recently acquired a pad for my comp and I have been playing non-stop fatal fury special!!!But get this…I’ve been playing Tung aswell!!! all of what you said is spot on, except, that I like to do:max range low dXX->A senshippo…this seem very safe and could be a solid tactic in versus.

Ps. Did you know that Gamest ranked him dead last?

To Josh-ThefunkDOC: The only Duck links I know are: low c(two hits)->slide move, and his low a links into his low d.


Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 07:20:2001 08:53 PM:
Hehe, I agree with you on Gamest rankings. I also play Geese a bit, though not as much as Duck, and I honestly don’t believe he’s middle-tier…IF you factor in the line switch. That makes all his projectiles worthless, and his only other moves are the reversals and Raging Storm. Translation: Get a hit on him and STAY THE HELL AWAY. Sure, his standing C and D are nice, but they don’t do block damage.

Without the line switch, , though, he could be upper-middle perhaps. You can switch between the two reppukens to mess them up, and the air fireball is not as good as in other games but still useful. Use the single Reppuken to get closer while it’s out or be a bitch with all the fireballs to make them come closer. Then poke, especially with the standing C, and reverse their moves. And when your life’s low, people ain’t gonna jump a whole hell of a lot. Raging Storm is awesome anti-air (Major invincibility time). Just have to get the motion down (Notice a trend there? ).

And Crayfish, I never tried Cheng. I’m interested in what you haveta say about him.


#3

Posted by Crayfish on 07:21:2001 12:43 PM:

  • Updated on 25/07/01

Cheng SinZan.

Cheng is my other main character in FFSpecial. I love the way the designers have worked real TaiChi movements into his arsenal(like his Feirce punch) and come up with a totaly individual and effective style. Obviously being a TaiChi adept, there is heavy emphasis on Chi energy attacks, his Kirai Hoh is one of the most unorthadox and usefull fireballs in the game. Other things of note are his combination charge/motion playing style and acid warped Bruce Lee spirit shouts!

His standing Feirce punch makes a good anti air, it works in a similar way to Honda’s Pork Chop Feirce in ST, it hits verticaly above. There is also a close range 45 degree punch, but I prefer the TaiChi palm cause opponents have to be very close for the 45 degree to come out. Its a shame you don’t have more
control over these attacks like with New Dhalsim in ST.
The C+D (knock into the back line) attack, the one where Cheng gathers Chi around his fist is an excellent anti air for attacks coming in at 45 degrees (this is a weakness of the TaiChi palm), the same attack on the back line isn’t as good. *The only thing is if I played with line system banned in versus I supose that means not using this attack, and Cheng loosing his main anti air weapon, could always fight on Billy and Lowrence BG’s but that might make the C+D attack more practical than trying more skillfull combos, cant choose BG’s anyway. Suspose I can’t have my cake and eat it!???! Anyone thoughts?

His standing “Hop Kick” Roundhouse is an excellent footsie weapon when used at full range. Try to hit the tip of low attacks with it. If an opponent tries to trip you with a long range sweep, kick his feet with the Hop Kick. Very effective! This footsie will cleanly beat just about any low attack. Experiment with this and the standing Short(when you need a quicker attack) against other attacks. They can beat things like Tung’s lunge punch, I think even Duck’s Ball (Sorry to say this Josh-TheFunkDOC, but I think this and the Roundhouse footsie really tip the scales in Cheng vs Duck matchup, shame you live in the US or you could prove me wrong). Incredible priority. Still experimenting but I think this could be one of the best attacks in the game.

  • Against Duck’s Ball attack the crouching Roundhouse is best and sets up a good meaty fireball.

At closer ranges on the ground I like his standing Jab, its fast and has good range also you can immediatly cancel into the Hegan Geki (roll attack) for two hits even at full range.

  • Crouching Jab has better range, can snuff many attacks and can cancel into Kirai Hoh also. Because its performed croucching you are charged for all other sprecials. You cannot chain low jabs together though.

His jumping Jab has good range and priority for air to air combat.

The Crouching double hit Roundhouse is a good pushout move. * And can be cancelled into the Kirai Hoh or Super after the first or second hits.

For me Chengs strong suit is the Kirai Hoh fireball. Because of its arcing motion its much more intimidating and harder to aviod than a normal fireball plus it explodes on impact with the ground, this is very usefull. Opponents jumping in at certain angles can be shot down with a well timed Kirai Hoh also remember that if you are ahead on energy you can always trade hits with certain fireballs (like Terry’s) cause it flies over the top. The explosion frames have a number of uses, it is great as a meaty attack, allowing you to follow up with an almost instantanious fireball or roll (Im the type of player who will score any chip damage they can get). Opponents can’t (so well) do the traditional jump straight up over the Kirai Hoh to negate fireball pressure cause they land on the explosion frames. Opponents jumping in at long range can be landed on the explosion frames as well as opponents who try the quick escape (double tap back) to avoid fireballs. I like to throw a Jab Kirai Hoh short of an opponent when I anticipate some sort of dashing attack from full screen distance, they will dash into the explosion frames.
*Remember the Bakurai Hoh (Super) works just like the Feirce fireball so you can use these tactics with it as well.

  • The tactic I mentioned about trading hits with other fireballs cause Cheng’s fireball flies over the top (Look at my Avatar) means that when you can do the Super this totaly shuts down many characters long range fireball game! Don’t know exactly how this affects all the matchups yet but it must have a huge effect in many, totaly changing the dynamic of the matchup! Remember also Cheng’s must be the easiest Super in the game, also it only ‘seems’ to need the same charge time as the normal fireball 2 secs not 3 as quoted in the FAQ.

The Short Hegan Geki (roll attack) is good for punishing whiffed attacks and covering distance quickly. I also like to whiff the Short Hegan Geki just short of an opponent and then throw them, much like Sagat’s whiffed Tiger Knee into throw in ST. The Roundhouse Hegan Geki is too slow and telegraphed to punish anything other than the largest openings.

The throw is great cause you can follow up with a meaty Kirai Hoh and then have options.

The standing Feirce, Roundhouse and short are all usefull for positioning, especialy for setting up meaty fireballs after throws.

The hold and headbutt throw is usefull for putting alot of distance between you and your opponent.

The Fierce Dai-Taikobarauchi (Flying Belly Blast) is great if you anticipate a fireball and can be used as an anti air. The Jab version can be manipulated heavily in flight to confuse your opponent like Bisons flying fist thingie in ST (it certainly confuses CPU AI Billy Cane!). If you hold back with this you will go back down the same as you came up after reaching the height of the jump, so you can bait opponents into whiffing anti airs then punish them with a Short roll. I will have to experiment with this move much more cause I’m sure its got some really good uses. Anyone?

  • The great thing about both the roll and the belly blast is that they knock down, this sets up Cheng’s meaty game which is very strong thanks to those wonderfull explosion frames.

  • Cheng, although he has a fireball motion should always be charging downback unless you need to use a standing attack. That way you can go into Belly Blast and Super at any time.

Thats all I can think of right now, anyone else please add. Overall I think Cheng is a very strong character, although much of his fireball pressure game is negated if you use the line system. He is certainly MY srongest character.*

*Just to add a little to my Cheng SinZan profile. After experimenting more with the standing Roundhouse “hop kick” it seems more and more like DJ’s crouching Strong in ST. Its strange, it can snuff alot of moves (even high ones) without even seeming to make contact. Ofcourse proper vs play is essential to test out its true uses but it seems really good.

*Crouching Feirce can be canceled, this is extremely usefull in close for combosand pushout. A very powerfull combo is:

High jumpin Roundhouse(2 hits), Crouching Feirce X Short Roll.

Crayfish.


#4

Posted by Middlekick on 07:22:2001 04:36 PM:

Btw, I found some news regarding the state of the game in Japan, It seems there is a small but loyal scene on this game. The have regular tournaments and the charcters that place highly seems quite varied. Here are the results of a tourney that happened last Sunday.

Characters only, I can’t read Kanji properly to save my life

1.Duck
2.Duck
3.Geese
4.Billy

and a tourney a few months earlier…

1.Geese
2.Duck
3.Kim

On the site with this info, I also found out loads of stuff that I would never have dreamed of. e.g kara cancels with Duck’s super, so he can do it without jumping. Mad,mad Jubei cookie combos and other assorted goodies.

Here’s the url: http://home.att.ne.jp/sun/garousp-max/garou%20menu.html

and incase you can’t find the movies:
http://home.att.ne.jp/sun/garousp-m...kenkyu-kai.html …they’re all over the page.


Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 07:25:2001 04:35 AM:

Seriously, Geese in this game is definitely an expert character. I was just trying out some more things with him, and it turns out I suck with him even more than I thought. Or maybe it’s just the CPU. Geese has to be like the worst character to use on the CPU because they’re psychic when it comes to his reversals. You CANNOT catch CPU characters with them . Soooo…then you go to his fireballs. And the CPU loves to abuse the line switch to avoid these.

So I was pretty much left with just his normals. And he has some darned good stuff. The standing B into Reppuken is a very good tactic, but from a distance I find myself using sweep into Reppuken more often. The sweep in general is a very nice move aside from its slow startup.

In the air, even though when you press C he does like 5 of those palmstrikes, I still find both his jumping weak attacks better. Jumping B is, as you’ve seen in the video, his crossup move. But most of the time I use jumping A. Seems to have the same priority as B (Really good), but it’s at a downward angle. When I land I follow up with a blocked move into Reppuken. It seems to me that the close standing C into Reppuken only combos when they’re in the corner.

Low C: His only anti-air besides the high reversal (More on that later) and Raging Storm (ditto). Hits twice if close. Another good move to cancel into Reppuken, as the startup time is good. Priority ain’t bad; it trades with Duck’s jumping B.

*Also, the CPU Geese, when it’s on the opposite line, loves to jump to your line and low C after. If all 3 hits connect, that’s a 40% damage combo.

Far away standing C: VERY important move. Actually, I can’t call it “far away”, as you have to be almost on top of your opponent to hit his close version. Anyway, this move has kinda shitty startup time, but it beats EVERYTHING that isn’t completely invincible (i.e. Most anti-air specials at startup). It hits Duck out of his ball easily, and beats any normal move I can think of (Except Guard Attacks, of course. ). Just don’t use it too close to the enemy, or they can react more easily.

Far away standing D: For me, his BEST normal move. It’s like having a dash that hits them. Only prob with this move is that if you do it too close to the enemy, the recovery time if blocked is bad. That’s only of you’re very close, though. If you’re mid-range, it won’t be a problem. Anyway, this move actually has fast startup, and travels quickly and far. After I hit one of these, I do blocked move into Reppuken, then do another standing D and repeat for a little while. This is a better tactic than you’d think, as the priority of this move is very good. Hell, I once hit Andy out of his DP during its upwards arc with this.

Double Reppuken: This move has turned out to be more useless than I thought. Just note that its startup is a lot slower than the A Reppuken, but the fireball is larger and travels more quickly. In future games, it’s a better move up close because it hits twice.

Reppuken: As I’ve said by now, I never use the Reppuken other than cancelling normals into it. It becomes a whole different ballgame when you play versus with a fellow line-switch hater.

Shippuken (Air fireball): With line switch this move is utter tripe. Without the line switch, the A version is very useful. I don’t like the C version because it travels more quickly and leaves him floating backwards in the air longer (Translation: More time for your opponent to do something to you). Even the A version has a nice long recovery. For that reason, never use this if you’re in the corner.

Reversals (Don’t know their names): Geese can never seem to decide whether he wants to have 2 or 3 reversals, as that number varies between games. In this particular incarnation, he has 2. These are the high reversal and the mid reversal.

The high one reverses all jumping attacks, and all specials and DM’s besides fireballs and throws. The mid one reverses all standing normals, including CD attacks. I’m not so sure about Guard Attacks, but I would think it would work on them.
*And, it does reverse crouching attacks that hit high.

BTW, in the games when he has 3 reversals, the third one reverses all crouching attacks.

And finally…

Raging Storm: I can do this move very consistently on a keyboard after some practice. In fact, I can cancel the first hit of low C into it. The wierd thing was that it didn’t connect afterwards, and I was doing this on Cheng. I think it can only combo after a crossup, and maybe only on crouching characters or something. Anyway, this is the move I was the most disappointed in after trying it more. Weakness #1 being that its horizontal range is almost nonexistant. And the other, more significant weakness being…you can get hit during its startup (Which is a pretty large timeframe). Seriously. Even as anti-air, you’d have to do it early because of the lack of invincibility. I would love to see what makes this such an outstanding move, because right now I’m not convinced it’s anything more than a poor man’s Power Geyser.

That has been all of what I have found about Geese so far. How I long for some versus play. sigh

Josh the FunkDOC


#5

Posted by BonusKun on 07:30:2001 11:26 AM:

Hm To coin a phrase, Skill is in the eye of the beholder.

I played a lot of Fatal Fury Special these past few days and came across a lot of weird and interesting things with Jubei. I find that using him for cross ups and then doing crouching ‘B’ or ‘A’ and following up with either a Senbei-Shuriken or Nihon-Seoi Dash makes it very easy for a lot of other player to get caught in trap. The Senbei-Shuriken I would recommend doing instead of the Nihon-Seoi Dash seeing as you can keep adding more hits even after you throw the heh Cookie.

Plane shifting wise I would do low hops and follow up with the same things overall due to him being able to combo his low ‘B’ into a lot of things. The Neko-Jarashi HCB+C up close is a cool command throw for just doing a fair amount of damage. It’s like a Zangief’s piledriver but it’s esier to get results with it.

The Ooizuna-Otoshi I only really use for stunned oppoents due to it being a charge down/up move which needs to be done very close. I find that Jubei’s abilites make him an excellent turtle fighter but he CAN be offensive if you desire to go that route. A varity of jumping D’s can be used to do similar combos overall and just make anyone facing Jubie have a bad day.

I don’t know if Jubei is really considered top tier but, I think he is up there. The game is just too damn easy to win with using him. I think I’ll see what else I can do with him seeing as I think he might have some other things I haven’t tried yet. Either way, I hope what i said is worth the read. I don’t consider myself an awesome player but, I stil love this game enough to play it.


Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 07:31:2001 12:34 AM:
OK…I’ve been playing all Axel lately, and here are various tips for anybody interested in him.

Anti-Air:

Axel has 5 moves that are viable anti-airs: His far B, far D, low C, CD attack, and his DM.

Far D: Only use this when the enemy jumps from a far distance and the damage from it will kill them. Priority is decent.

Low C: This works only if the enemy’s right next to you because its horizontal range is zilch. Kinda sad, as the priority is excellent.

CD Attack: The best if they’re close. I prefer far B if they jump from a distance (explained below). Except on the Billy/Axel/Laurence stages, on which this should be your one and only anti-air.

Far B: This is my favorite because its priority is awesome and you can cancel it into a tornado upper. They’ll land right on it and be forced to block or line switch. Note that the hitbox of this move isn’t as high as the others, so don’t use it too early.

Desperation Move: As the startup on this is horrible, only use if you can psychically predict when your enemy will jump. If you actually do get it out, then it’s great, as no normal will beat it.

Special and Desperation Moves:

Tornado Upper: His main special move, without a doubt. Its startup and recovery are very good for a projectile, almost as good as Krauser’s Blitz Balls. I mainly cancel into it after certain normal moves (see normal moves and general strategy sections in part 2).

Dash Uppercut (Don’t know the exact name): Its startup is very slow, but the recovery is good. Good move to use after a low D. Low D -> Dash Upper is a good tactic for getting close (see strategies section in part 2).

Axel Dance: This move is key to playing Axel up close. Mash the low A, and one of them will get canceled into this for nice block damage. AFAIK, this is his only special move that combos (Not sure about the dash upper). Make sure NOT TO MASH ANYMORE after the move starts, as he’ll throw more punches that’ll completely whiff. As you can imagine, that is a Bad Thing, and he looks like a doofus too.

“BUST YEW UP!” (Once again, can’t remember exact name): His Desperation Move. I’ve heard this mentioned as one of the hardest moves to do in the game, but I don’t agree. For me it’s slightly easier than a Raging Storm. This is a move that, unlike the Dash Upper, I can hardly find any good uses at all. Its startup is even worse than the dash upper, and there is no invincibility at any point in it. If any of it hits, the enemy is knocked down and loses about 1/3 of his life. If blocked, it will do 2 hits of block damage, no more. This is a Very Bad Thing because usually the last punch will not connect at all if the move is blocked, giving your enemy a year to figure out what to do to you.

Guard Attack:

Axel’s Guard Attack is one of the best in the game, without a doubt. The reason is because its range is incredible; it’s his longest-ranged physical attack.

Jumping Attacks:

A and B: Both are exactly the same. I prefer C and D over these usually. I do use these to counter certain attacks (Duck’s ball or Krauser’s Leg Tomahawk) because they stay out longer.

C and D: All his jumping attacks have the same animation and priority. Only difference is that these don’t stay out as long as A/B, but they do more damage, cause longer hit stun(Duh ), and hit twice. The latter three reasons are why I use these.

One final note: All his jumping attacks can cross up.

And I have to go for a bit, so that’ll be it for now. The normal moves and general strategy sections will be in my next post.

To BonusKun: I read all of your info on Jubei and liked it. Glad to see somebody who still loves this game.

Josh the FunkDOC

Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 07:31:2001 05:33 AM:
Now back to where I left off with Axel.

Ground Normal Moves:

A: The far standing A is his fastest and longest-ranged (I think)standing normal and is cancelable.
The low A is my favorite move to use when up close. It’s his fastest normal, period. It’s always a good idea to cancel this into a tornado upper or Axel Dance.

B: The far B is one of my favorite moves with Axel. It has good range, comes out almost instantly, hits crouchers, is cancelable, and beats out almost any physical attack I can think of. Its flaw is the recovery; even if you connect
with this, most characters can sweep you or do worse while you’re recovering. The way around this is to cancel it into a tornado upper. The low B has good startup and recovery , is his longest-ranged low move along with the D, and is cancelable. However, I almost always prefer the low D over this (see below).

C: The far C is a good move to poke with, as its range is better than the far D’s. Recovery is kinda harsh, so it’s best to use at its maximum range.
The close C is a quick move that hits crouchers and is cancelable. Not bad at all.
The crouching C is only good for anti-air. Its hitbox is a bit high; most characters can duck under it. No horizontal range.

D: The far D isn’t necessarily bad, but there’s little reason to use it over the C for ground fighting.
The close D is even quicker than the C and is cancelable. I should use this move more often.
The low D has the same animation and priority as the low B. It has only slightly more startup and recovery than the B, which is why I prefer it. It tends to hit moves at a bit farther range than it looks. It is cancelable; good to use the dash upper after this as well as the tornado.

Combos:

Axel only has one combo that I ever use. Hell, come to think of it, I think this is the only combo he has :stuck_out_tongue: :

Jump C/D, low A -> A Axel Dance

The Dance will get 2 hits if you jump from the front, or 3 hits if the combo is a crossup.

General Strategies:

Generally, I like to play Axel at mid-range. All his far normals except the low A and C have great reach; use it. Stand B into tornado upper is one of my favorite tactics; just don’t use too much against guys with invincible-at-startup DP’s (i.e. The 3 heroes, Kim, Duck) or other fireball-punishers (Cheng’s belly flop). Against those characters, I favor the sweep into tornado as it pushes them farther back if blocked. Don’t keep using standing B against other characters though; be patient and poke with his other normals, especially the low B/D (Against Krauser and Geese, put heavy emphasis on the un-reversable low attacks). As I’ve told you by now, he is really lacking in speed, but makes up for it in range and priority. Playing Axel at full-screen ain’t bad either. Like I said, his projectile is one of the best. If they jump, CD their ass, or do far B and cancel into tornado to continue this. Don’t get too predictable with that, though, as if they jump early enough they can still get you.
Against some characters like Jubei, I like to switch between mid-screen and rushdown Axel. The latter involves using jumping attacks or low D -> A Dash Upper to get close and from there pressuring with constant low A’s into Axel Dance. That’s pretty damned fun right there.

And that’s it. Comments, anyone?

Josh the FunkDOC


#6

Posted by Middlekick on 08:02:2001 10:48 PM:

I should have probably posted this ages ago…
The japanese infinite combo site(the one that has the sticky in the strategy and tactics section) has two infinites for fatal fury special.

Joe Higashi or Duck King vs anyone in the corner.
[close standing A->walk forward a tiny bit->close standing A] x n


*MORE RE - POSTS TO COME,

Crayfish


#7

Posted by Crayfish on 08:08:2001 03:30 PM:

JOE HIGASHI.

After the soft internal Tai Chi style of Cheng I fancied a change. What better than the most rugged external style of all, Muay Thai. Joe is a really solid FB trap and anti air character.

FIREBALL.
The Hurricane is a very fast FB with excellent recovery and means he can go head to head with just about anyone in FB wars. As with most jab projectiles in this game, the Jab version is very slow and is really good for meaty and follow up tactics. Because the Hurricane is a full character height characters like Tung and Jubei can’t sweep underneath it to negate fireball pressure and the quick recovery sets up Joe’s FB trap and anti air game (which is incredibly strong.

ANTI AIR. FB TRAPPING.
This to me is Joe’s strongest area, he has multiple options in just about all AA situations. *If an opponent is able to close in when you are trying to zone him remember to make liberal use of the Quick Retreat (double tap back) to regain the range.

The standing Roundhouse is is a good weapon. Although it looks like a pure 45 degree AA, it has infact got a huge striking area. its horizontal range is huge meaning it can cope with jumping attacks coming in from between 60 and 30 degrees. The recovery is so quick and you stay planted to the ground so you can really get good patterns going with just this and the Hurricane! Terrific move.

The Tiger Kick is almost unstoppable AA. Its startup is very slow but is almost completely invunerable and stays that way until it has reached the peak of its motion. The only downside is its limited range and slow recovery, meaning you will often land close to an opponent after countering with this with almost no time to plan you next move, so the standing Roundhoue is better for zoning opponents.

Opponents jumping in out of range can be landed on the crouching Roundhouse, ST Dhalsim style.

At a medium range the Guard Attack provides good AA (as the CPU demonstrates).

With good anticipation, opponents jumping in at high angles can be shot down by the Screw Upper (Super). The start up time is slow but the good thing is, once it has started to come out it will come out all the way even if Joe is hit, so unless you are one hit from death you can trade hits with any air attack and come off better. * The Screw Upper starts to come out about 3 frames into the move so you still need fairly good anticipation even to trade.

In some situations (like an opponent jumping at full screen range or jumping backwards) the Slash Kick can be used to knock them out of the air. This is a surprisingly good tactic.

MISC.
To me Joe (without the GA) should only be played at distance or right in close because he lacks good medium range footsie or poke attacks.(Where is the Thai low Round Kick?!?)

When fighting in close I like the crouching Jab. Its fast, will snuff many attacks and can be chained into other c.Jabs or the crouching Roundhouse. The standing Jab is just as good but can be ducked under especially by short characters. I find multipe jabs chained together is often better than the TNT punch because they don’t push you out and will always combo.

The horizontal range of the far standing Roundhouse as mentioned above is big. You can even beat some low attacks (like Terry’s crouching Roundhouse) with certain timings. Experiment with the strange hitting properties of this move.
The close s.Roundhouse is a knee attack that can be handy for a close attack because it hits low, unlike the close standing Feirce or Jab.

The Tiger Kick can dig under (Dragon Punch style) most normal attacks that opponents stick out to poke. This is an excellent tactic that sort of makes up for Joe’s weak med range and footsie game, but make sure you timing is good cause the whiff recovery is awfull.

When jumping at an opponent the Rounhouse has excellent reach and is very similar to Sagats mirror move in ST. Very intimidating when used at full range. It is also an excellent cross up weapon.

The jump straight up Short is good when used at full range for dropping on opponents heads when they are getting up, again this is a very intimidating move because of its range and tricky striking angle.

The Screw Upper as mentioned above can trade hit well with a little anticipation. This is also true against dashing attacks. Remember this attack is a screen height, character thick collision box that takes half a bar you can put infront of yourself on commad, thats one hell of a weapon. Experiment with it.

The Slash Kick is a good surprise attack. Like Tung’s Lunge Punch use it at a range where it will bounce you out to safety unless you are confident of a clean hit. I have yet to really make the most of this attack because of my style of play, if anyone has anything to contribute please do.

The crouching Roundhouse is usefull for sliding under certain FB’s (like Mai’s Fan etc…). Use this move sparingly in close because all characters can snuff it before it gets going and its recovery is also slow meaning many characters can punish you if it is blocked even at full range.

*I love to use this chip damage combo:
When you have knocked an opponent down in a corner throw an early Screw Upper then hammer Punch. The last frames of the Screw Upper should hit the back of the opponent just as they get up, then you will chip them with another two hits of TNT punch before being pushed out to safety.

I have not found any real uses for the TNT punch outside of the above mentioned chip combo. I have never landed that impressive looking last punch. Anyone any suggestions.

Well thats all I can think of for now. I am going to be breaking down Lowrence Blood in the next few days so stay tuned.

Crayfish.


#8

Posted by Middlekick on 08:11:2001 03:17 AM:

btw. Terry has some sick,sick,sick combos. If you can start the combo with their
back towards you, you can do something like: Jump d->low a x 7->low cXXb
crackshoot.


Posted by Middlekick on 08:12:2001 05:16 AM:

Oh man, Duck King, I’m starting to see why he’s so good…
His normals are awesome. stand c-wicked poke…it has loads of priority,moves him forward,has good recovery which can be abused eg. stand c->stand c->stand c then if they try to counter, you can go into his duck dive combo(low a->low bXXduck dive(more later)

Stand a-the comboers weapon of choice. He can also do a rolento/gen style walking poking sequence. The close a hits ducking(ha!)opponents too.

slide-anti fb. I bet you could also do stuff like max range slide into his super grab as a good baiting tactic.

anti-air comes in the form his b break storm(d works also but the startup time is bit too much for my liking), low d(spin kick) slide, or jump straight up d.

His roll is safe, it’s better to do it off a blocked normal(low c comes to mind), that way they cannot counter you. I always use the a version as it’s a lot quicker and I don’t think the c version combos from his weak attacks.

Duck can kill you with one combo. The infinite I posted earlier can be done anywhere! not just in corners…however it’s very difficult to infinite them from the front…it’s a lot easier it you have their back to you. If you do get an opening from the front, do this combo:
stand a x 5~6(hold forward)stand bxxD duck dive. Not only does this combo do about 50%, it also dizzies! furthermore, when you finish the combo, they are right in the corner where you can kill 'em with the infinite. Another dizzy combo is jump d->low c(2 hits)d duck dive.

I still can’t do his super yet, but I can imagine him doing stuff like from nearly full screen:whiff a roll into the grab super for a nice trick. Let’s not forget about his kara cancels…

Josh-thefunkDOC: They’re are a number of way to get the opponent’s back facing you:

1.get them dizzy then jump over them, voila! monster combo coming up! Sometimes you don’t even need to jump over them.

2.They switch planes then come back to the original plane, sometimes they’ll face the other way

  1. The opposite of 2, you switch planes and come back, they can be doing a move, and when you hit them, you’ll get their back facing you

4.Specials which cross under you…e.g I’m Terry in the corner, I jump straight up, Duck rolls into the corner, I land and have his back facing me.

5.Special which just leave them facing the other during their recovery.

There is another way to get them facing the other direction(it’s in the Max vids) I’m not sure about that one yet.

I finally got to face Ryo, man he’s tough…fb dp traps, huge damage, extremely quick fb and awesome recovery, and a 3 hit dp that dizzies instantly.


Posted by Josh-TheFunkDOC on 01:06:2002 04:06 AM:
A couple notes after my last session of FF Special:

  1. Yeah, Cheng’s fireball is way weaker in Special. The good thing is that it travels a lot farther than it did in FF2, and is more floaty and travels more slowly. However, it has WAY more startup and recovery time than in FF2. Like I said, that move was lethal in FF2 because he could throw like 5 or 6 of them in a row; the FB had no recovery and almost no startup time. Seeing the fireball in Special now is just…ugh. One other major loss he suffered is that his far standing C is no longer bufferable; in FF2 it was, and far standing C -> fireball was a great tactic.

  2. I was experimenting with some of the whiff-cancelling like you’ve seen in the videos. It’s pretty simple most of the time; with Geese, for instance, do D, D/F+C, F+C to to a crouching fierce immediately cancelled into Double Reppuken.
    Or Axel: Do QCF + B~A or C (in case you’re not familiar with this notation, it means you press B then ASAP press A or C; it’s best to put one finger over one button and one over the other) to do a standing B whiff-cancelled into Tornado Upper. The interesting thing is that unlike in SF, some moves can’t be whiff-cancelled; with Axel, for example, his far standing D cannot be whiff-cancelled. There’s no real rhyme or reason as to which moves can be whiff-cancelled, it seems to be totally random; using Axel once more as an example, I thought his standing D didn’t work because it is not a bufferable move. So I tried his sweep, a move which is bufferable, and that doesn’t work either. So you’ll just have to go by good ol’ trial and error to figure it out.
    I can semi-consistently do Big Bear’s close standing C -> command throw whiff-cancel, the one you’ve seen on the video; it’s kinda hard to do and doesn’t have any real purpose since his command throw is easy to do on the ground anyway. Duck King’s crouching D -> DM whiff-cancel, on the other hand, seems VERY useful…except it’s insanely hard. I have only managed to do that once out of many tries, and still don’t know how I did it. A good tactic I learned from this “experimenting”: Geese’s crouching C -> Reversal is a useful whiff-cancel to know. It’s easy, too: All you need to do is move from Back to Down/Forward and press C, then move to Forward and press B or D. The reason it is useful is because the beginning animation of crouching C is clearly visible to the opponent, which can bait them into the reversal.
    And one more peculiar little note: It seems that you can whiff-cancel a normal move into a command normal. Take Duck King, for instance…do his crouching D, and IMMEDIATELY move the joystick to the D/F position. You’ll see the beginning animation of the crouching D and then it’ll go straight into his slide. This is REALLY weird, because you could never do this in SF. But I like it.

That’s all for now. And BTW, I still have no idea how in the hell you do Billy’s Pole Vault cancels…

Josh the FunkDOC


#9

Hey Karl, it’s been a while. Nice to see you still playing this game.
I mostly play online where with a decent ping you can have a realistic game. Lately I’ve been using Geese, Jubei, Bear and Tung.

Here are some Jubei discoveries.
Jubei(imo) is one of the strongest characters in FFS.
He can play a nasty keepaway game and being a grappler, he also has a very strong close combat game. He also has decent combos and can tick into his super for big damage.

Specials:

senbe shuriken(cookie cutter)-
Jubei’s projectile, although it requires a charge, the charge time is relatively short. It’s very quick to come out and has excellent recovery. You can use this in combos, to tick(in the corner), to trap(cookie-> wait for their jump-> low d)

Nihon seio dash(dashing grab)-
It’s very quick and gives the opponent one more thing to worry about when close. The only downside of this move is upon throwing his opponent, Jubei will go through a lengthy recovering animation making this move very difficult to followup effectively. If done with Jubei’s back facing the corner some opponents’s can grab(hit?) Jubei during this recovery animation.
A good tick with this is to cancel the D version from a heavy attack regardless if they’re blocking or not they will be grabbed. When cancelled from a heavy attack, the D NSD cannot be escaped by jumping. Only a reversal dp type move(if the oppoent wasn’t blocking) or a well-timed plane switch will avoid the grab. The B NSD will not grab an opponent when cancelled from a heavy attack Jubei will stop right next to the opponent, Where you can grab them with the more damaging and quicker recovering twist trick.

Ooizuna Otoshi(body drop)-

A command throw with no range that must be charged O_o Useless.

Neko Jarashi(Twist Trick)

An excellent move. Great range. Tick into this with 1~2 low/standing As or up to 4 standing As then walk in range for the grab.

Dynamite Izuna Otoshi(Dynamite body Drop)

His DM. The damage varies(35%-55%) depending on how much life you(?) or your opponents has. This must be charged, but unlike the regular version, it has excellent range(similar to the twist trick). You can tick into this from up to 2 blocked low As. Bonus trick: Max range whiff B NSD->low A x 2-> Dynamite body drop.

Normals.

stand a
This is rapid fire and hits many opponents when blocking low. stand a x4 is good for pressure or stop at the 3rd a and continue walking into more jabs or go for a tick.

stand b
Can beat Jubei’s low d. No rapid fire ability.

stand c
Cancelleable.

stand d
beats low d slide type moves.

Low D is the anti air of choice…very few moves from the air can beat it(Cheng’s jump d comes to mind). If they jump over your projectile, go for a slide. Also travels under some projectiles(including Jubei’s!)

Jump D can cross up oppoents and also option selects with his airthrow(j down+D) The airthow can be uses for opponents that try to jump out of your twist trick ticks.

Stand CD is slow but has good range. When on the back plane, his stand c has less range but is slightly quicker. A good trick is hit them into the other plance with the stand cd-> walk forward(while still in the other plane) and try to cross them up by using his A line attack.

Guard attack-> whiff b NSD->blocked low a-> twist trick is handy too.

Combos:
(crossup d)->low a x3-> low c-> c cookie cutter/D NSD.
jump d-> low c-> c cookie cutter
(corner)low a->a cookie cutter->low a-> stand b-> a cookie cutter/low d/stand cd
(crossup d)stand a x5-> stand c


#10

OMFG you kept a copy of it !? Great news !

Be sure I’ll post (mainly Geese questions haha ^^) around here. Great to hear from you guys again.

-edit-

Here’s a Q&A I had with Middlekick earlier this year :

/CHAZu :

Can you combo into Geese’s and Billy’s SDM ?

It seems that you can combo a far B into “Flamming Pole”, and I often use that trick, but once Kim kicked me out between the two o_o !?!

Also about Billy, is “far B -> Senpkon” a combo or must you go through “far B -> A -> Senpkon” (senpkon = A,A,A,A… quickly)"

Now about Geese, can you cornertrap a combo into Raising Storm ? For example can you “j.D -> c.A -> Reppuken -> Raising Storm” ?

/MiKi :

Geese can combo his super from his hard attacks, however the opponent must be crouching and reeling towards Geese.

Billy can combo his super from most of his normals, the easiest of these is probably his low b. it also combos from his far b.




#11

do any of yall have any stats for big bear


#12

bump, will try to get round to Lawrence at some point.


#13

You guys seen that old Japanese live action Fatal Fury Special Ad? I love that Ad! :lol:


#14

Well, I’ll copy paste Trieu’s Jubei corner trap with the cookie, as I asked him about it a few days back…

"Not really a glitch, but definitely hard to get out of. You basically throw a cookie at your opponent in the corner and do the special grab move, which is forward, half circle back, then straight forward again and press the C button.

So it’s from the middle, to 3 o’clock, half circle to 9 o’clock, back to 3 o’clock and press C button, then throw cookie, then do it again. This only works if the opponent keeps blocking, because if the opponent gets hit, the “glitch” doesn’t work. "


#15

Uber, u have FFS? If so, cart or emu?


#16

Don’t have the cart or the emulator. Been meaning to pick it up for either the home system (preferable) or the sega cd, but haven’t really gone out to order one online yet.

While I’m here…

Any good Mai strats/tactics?


#17

bump

Just the yearly bump :wink:


#18

anyone got any dizzy combos?

i am not 100% sure how to do them (ive had them done on me) but i know duck king has something like: c.LK->c.LK->s.HP->knee move (qcb+K)

kim’s is like c.LK->c.LK->c.HP.qcb+K (flip kick)

the above combos may not dizzy, just do insane amounts of damage… bit hard to practice the combos without any form of practice mode…


#19

Duck King’s infinite is a dizzy combo :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

anyone got any tips for big bear