So...is everyone confortable with the way America is headed?


#1

Just wondering. All I can find are people who are progressive liberal Democrats saying “Ignore any research and figures from the Republicans…things are going awesome!! Just keep your head down and believe!”, and Republicans and conservative Democrats saying “Holy crap, we’re in trouble, our current way of life and rights are in jeopardy, and we have the figures, testimony and numbers, (as well as the strange ability to call the current presidency’s political moves 3-6 days in advance of them being made public) to PROVE it.”. Just what’s going on here? Why would the White House demonize the EIB if what they were saying was of no consequence…and how can the hosts predict Democratic tactics sometimes weeks in advance? Are the Republicans trying to stop the course we’re on cuz they see it won’t allow people to be independently wealthy any more (directly affecting them, so they are warning others in self-preservation)?

I’m not really sure who to pay attention to: the guy doesn’t really tell you much about what he’s doing and assures you that there is no cost, yet who has people jacked up and dragged out of town hall meetings for asking too many questions like some 3rd-world dictator, or the guys from the other party who tell us not to blindly believe everything he says, and to do our own research. I’m usually a little leery of people who don’t like scrutiny, and can only rebut with “that’s not true” and no counter-evidence, or just silently glare at you as you point our flaws with their plan.

Forgive me if this is too disruptive/divisive, mods, but this is the only place I know of online where you can have a conversation with knowledgeable people from both sides, rather than messageboards where everybody is only on one side of the fence, and the whole topic is disrupted by people from the other side who are just trolling with no real interest in the topic anyway, regardless of how much it will impact their lives.


#2

Nope.


#3

I have yet to see ANY type of proof that ANY rights are being affected by ANYTHING thats happening in politics today. All I see are sensationalists. The only type of legislation that I know of that has violated the rights of Americans is the patriot act.

The fact that your post lacks any kind of specifics on ANYTHING just shows me that you are also a sensationalist, almost wanting to believe that we are a hop skip and jump away from communist China. Get the fuck outta here with that shit.


#4

I just want somebody to provide some rebuttal to the people who say we actually are. The only people with actual figures or any kind of research are the people who are against the current administration, while the administration itself has no rebuttal for those figures. Such as the health care review back in february. The hidden costs were in the trillions, and the money that would be diverted (or swiped) from medicare and medicaid were in the billions. [media=youtube]zPxMZ1WdINs&feature=player_embedded[/media]. No rebuttal with facts, figures, or anything. No rebuttal at all in fact. The current health care bill allows government to extend into yet another private industry (isn’t this how communism got started? Governmental total control, to the point where the people had no say in anything, and people totally dependent on the government because it controlled all jobs?), and from what everyone who has reviewed it says, is NOT “already paid for”, and will create a massive financial burden. And even stranger: nobody who’s for it has read it, they just want it, and will take whatever surprises that were written in it later. I am NOT seeking sensationalism. This is a very real concern to me. Can anyone who has done any research besides just blindly thinking “O’s the next best thing to God, and has everyone’s best interests at heart.” provide some real evidence that we shouldn’t worry?


#5

Isn’t that the same review in which Obama eventually broke down and accepted the figures? Which was much to the surprise of McCain. He cant run from it forever.
As for the communism bit, let them try it, Ive always wanted to be part of a revolution.


#6

Hawaii has government controlled health care and they aren’t communist…


#7

I say we have Rhio and Thurst banned. They’re ruining our liberal communist fascist orgy of information-ignoring


#8

They ARE part of the us, which isn’t run in a way that supports the beginnings of communism. Without authoritarian control and governmental reliance for every need, even food, communism has a hard time evolving into existence.

Not funny, bro. Nothing wrong with seeking info from others who may have more than is currently available than you, or getting people to look into things beyond what the PTB tell you. 'Cept in other countries. Then you go to jail, or disappear in the dead of the night.


#9

I don’t really agree with anything so far. But I am not savey with politics so I usually just ignore these conversations.


#10

Who says America is any different? They’re in ur phone, tappin ur callz


#11

I’m a Constitutionalist myself. The government is already too big as it is.
If we grant the federal gov even more power that is not specified in the Constitution, then who or what is to stop them from taking whatever power or measures to limit our divinely given rights.

The major problem I see with a large part of the populous is that we are not educated sufficiently about what responsibilities the federal and state governments are granted by the documents written by our founders. Thus any thing that we don’t want to be responsible for we seem to think we can just let the government handle.
In a world where people are as responsible with other people’s property, health, and money as they are with their own, this ‘possibly’ could work.
Unfortunately the world of political corruption and personal greed is the one we live in.

If we choose to live by the principles set forth in the Constitution we would never even consider things like having a Social Security system, welfare system, let alone government funded health care. The helping of the poor, downtrodden, or disadvantaged has been best accomplished by church going people, specifically Christians, but all religions I know of teach the same compassion for the less fortunate. The generosity of private charities and donations also has traditionally addressed these issues.

We are given the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness by our Constitution. The amendments to ensure all Americans can do so are legitimate. Any law or statue that seeks to supplant them with a substitute will lead to a small group of people making decisions for a large group of people with whom they may not directly be accountable to. See any one of the Czar positions in our current government organization. They are not accountable to the people, or congress, yet can pass sweeping policies that directly affect our everyday lives.

For example our right to the pursuit of happiness, is not defined by the Constitution. Why does the government assume that some one unwilling to work must be provided all the same things as those of us that do work in order to be happy?
If that person feels he is pursuing happiness by not working, then let him do so. It is not our gov’s place to say he will only be happy if he is given a place to live, food to eat, and healthcare. Let him rely on relatives, friends, church organizations, and charities. When/If he decides that such a life doesn’t provide happiness, he’ll be sufficiently motivated to pursue happiness via whatever legal means available. Perhaps he’ll get a job, start a business, volunteer at a church, or charity which he received help from, etc.

If the road of giving the government our responsibilities is followed to it’s ultimate end, we will eventually have most of the people dependent upon some type of government handout, with very little motivation to work, a small powerful group of rich people, and virtually no middle class.

Here is an example of low motivation from the socialization the higher education system.
I know of a country who has a socialized college system that one of my friends from China attends. Although that country has free college, they have a very low enrollment, and even lower graduation percentage. It is sow low in fact that they give foreign students full ride scholarships to get people to attend.
This blew my mind as most 1st world and developing countries are competing heavily to get into college. China also has no free schooling so it was a huge shock to her also.

Those students who do graduate have a huge tax burden to bear once they do get decent paying job. If they even feel motivated to seek employment. Since they will be taxed at a high percentage many people will just get welfare and still work under the table to avoid disqualifying themselves for handouts.
The country has ~20% unemployment rate.

I hope this post helps at least one person to realize our government’s responsibility to us, and the limitations of it’s power. Please remind your representative of this by contacting them and telling them it is not their job to take over healthcare, automotive companies, or manipulate financial markets. We only need them to protect us from foreign and domestic enemies, and ensure our laws follow the principles laid forth in out Constitution. If they won’t do this or are taking the bribes of lobbists, interest groups and corporations, (kick) vote them out!


#12

But according to you government run health care is the beginning of communism which Hawaii has as well as being part of the U.S. yet no one over there is a commie.

Frankly I dunno what the answer for Health Care is I just know free business health care isn’t working. I’m willing to try something new that seems to be working pretty well over in the Islands. Perhaps you have a better idea?


#13

I haven’t heard any liberals saying things are going great. Nice straw man though.


#14

And as far as I know, if you don’t mention things you wouldn’t say in front of a police officer, you should be okay. Those things are best left for discussion in private meetings. Now, if they were in my base, killing my dudes, that would suck.


#15

I said that? Where? I believe I mentioned government encroaching upon yet another sector of private industry kinda looking like the beginning of total control…cuz it has to start somewhere. First the auto industry…then student loans (why? who knows…to determine who learns what?), then health care and health insurance…and maybe eventually jobs in general. government is poised to control more than it ever has in this country, and we’ve seen from history in other countries that similar moves have eventually led to total control. Nice karawimi there.


#16

Hmm…you have a point there. I’m not sure what to call the faction of Democrats who say things are going fine…but they are out there.


#17

The people in the government are there only to look out for themselves and whoever gives them the most money. If you’re claiming that we should trust repubs or demos over each other is really ridiculous.


#18

Pretty much your whole opening post. You don’t outright say it but it’s what you’re getting at. Hell the post I’m quoting is pretty much saying it to.

Also Karawimi? The fuck is that?


#19

nobody is eased into “communism”, its usually a result of unstable government and social conditions plus some other revolutionary factors - total change of the political climate is usually violent - even places that revert from democratic conditions into something else usually didn’t have it all that well to begin with

assuming that the us will gradually become communistic just cause is things that make people seem like those idiots blogging about how 9/11 was an inside job facilitated to start the iraq war and steal all those poor souls oil


#20

So…everything is cool?