So let's say there was another update

t-hawk

#1

What sort of buffs would you like to see for Hawk? Here are two I’d like to see:

I’d like to see Condor Spire not completely suck. Is frame advantage or even frames on HIT too much to ask really?

I’d like also like to see the hitbox on s.rh extended downward slightly so it does batter against low pokes.

Nothing too extravagant on my end. U2 mapped to kicks would be better too but that’s not really that big a deal.


An educated perspective on T.Hawk changes
#2

He should have a giant hawk like Nakoruru in Samsho that he can use to short hop by jumping on and off of it. He should also be able to use it as a projectile.


#3

Condor Spire only needs faster startup and a better hitbox, not frame advantage. I’d even go so far and say that would be over the top, since he is a grappler and thus a close range beast.

St. RH is good as it is, use other pokes to counter lows. Hawk has them.

Tomahawk needs startup like in ST and Dive should be safe on block versus Fireball characters.

IMO.


#4

Maybe frame ADVANTAGE is a bit too much, but at the very least improve the frames a bit. Being punishable by some characters ON HIT is absolutely retarded.


#5

You cannot be punished if you space it correctly. If you land in deep, well, you’re fucked but a special move shouldn’t become braindead to use.


#6

Certainly not, but I don’t see how that change would make Spire braindead, especially if it was still punishable on block.


#7

Honestly, if I could choose one buff to give to Hawk it would definitely be a buff to make his regular Condor Spire a solid special move. IMO, the biggest problem that Hawk has is the fact that he is not good at controlling horizontal space and the irony of this is that his Condor Spire is the best horizontal-space-control move he has. As we all know, Condor Spire is without a doubt the most SUCK special move in the whole entire game. It is terrible in literally all aspects. Slow startup, slow recovery, unsafe on block, unsafe on hit, not comboable, not FADCable, mediocre hitbox, slow traveling speed, low damage, easy to punish on reaction, etc. This is the biggest reason why he is so disadvantaged against universally all projectile characters as well as many non-projectile turtle heavy characters. WIthout making him powerful (just really REALLY solid), here are the changes I’d like to see for regular Condor Spire -

  1. Change the startup from 20 frames to 15 frames (Like EX Condor Spire) for all versions.
  2. Slightly faster traveling speed
  3. Even frames on hit
  4. -3 frames on block

If they can give him all of these buffs to Condor Spire it would make Hawk solid at controlling horizontal space. He would STILL be disadvantaged against the same characters, but with these buffs he’ll have a move which he can use to close the distance with a fair risk/reward ratio. I think it’s fair to have Condor Spire at -3 frame disadvantage so that projectile characters like Ryu, Ken, and Akuma who have 3 frame reversals can punish Hawk on block. Hawk already has solid options to get past projectiles that I think it’s only fair for characters like them to still have a bigger risk/reward ratio when it comes to controlling horizontal space.

**Some cool stuff that would be fun to have but highly unlikely **

  1. Make Crouching Roundhouse a 2 hit combo that would allow the opponent to stand on the first hit but get sweeped on the second hit. This would be a REALLY fun buff and would create an instant setup for a crossup Condor Dive.
  2. Make C.Standing Fierce -> C.Standing MP a chain combo. This would honestly be a bit too powerful for a grappler-type character because it’s an easy and automatically hit-confirm combo into EX Condor Spire that leads into a KD everytime.

#8

I’d like to see regular Condor Spire suck less…

I’d also like to see cr.MK xx EX Condor Spire be possible.


#9

Make regular tomahawks not suck. Decent startup would be nice.

Ex dives should be safe

I’d be happy with just these two changes but it would be nice if regular spires didn’t suck so much.


#10

Just curious, what’s your idea of a decent startup for Tomahawk? For me, it would be at least 5 frames for Fierce Tomahawk, 4 for MP Tomahawk, and 3 for LP Tomahawk.

How safe would you want EX Dives to be? Safe against all characters? Some?


#11

Heck, I’d be happy with a four frame startup for all tomahawks including ex but I’d settle with 5 for all. Three would be wishful thinking imo. I think ex dives should always be safe period.


#12

Okay, I see.


#13

Gosh, I forgot to mention one other change that would be really good to have, in fact I think if Hawk was given this is one change alone it would be even more game-changing for him then the Condor Spire changes I suggested above. It would be so nice (Not overpowered) if Hawk was able to land immediately after successfully landing any version of Condor Dive instead of just bouncing backwards. It’s already such a tedious task to close the distance on many characters that I strongly believe this change is extremely justified. It just sucks when you try to get in using Condor Dive, then successfully landing it only to bounce backwards and give the opponent enough time to quickstand and run away again.

If they could give Hawk this change to Condor Dive it would justify the risk involved. If the opponent blocks Condor Dive, it’s a free Ultra/Super, anything they want. If you successfully land Condor Dive however, you’re given an opportunity to capitalize on that knockdown by getting in your opponents face and having them at your mercy. It’s only fair.


#14

Condor Dive = Hawk Lands Near Knocked down opponent

Condore spire: input changed to kicks
Little faster start up + speed

Make the light version go through projectiles

Maybe make close medium a command normal :slight_smile:


#15

Change ultra 2 input into kicks.

Make it possible to combo ultra 2 off juggle states, ie anti air ex spire, LP DP, clHK.

Make startup of normal Condor Spires 15f, or make them knockdown on standing hit and stay 20f. I dont get why you guys are complaining about it’s frame data, it acts exactly like Sagat’s TK, but deals more damage instead of knocking down, well spaced spires are completely safe on block if not + if done perfectly. The problem with the move is that it’s so slow and gives a lot of time for the opponent to react and uppercut even if spaced correctly.

Make crMP, stMP special cancelable and comboable into EX spire , giving hawk a REAL confirm off a non close hit instead of the crap he gets now. clmp,clmp,stmp into ex spire is going to be godlike, and so will jab into stmp into ex spire.

Make crMK super cancelable therefore FADCable giving hawk some nastier and more damaging tick throw setups.

Make stHP non duckable by anyone in the cast.

Slightly buff the range on first part of sweep.

Give Hawk’s heavy shoulder juggle properties! Heavy shoulder into EX dive will be godlike.

I think what I’m asking for is reasonable, and it will turn hawk into a much better character, although I highly doubt they’d want him to get a hit confirm into knockdown as they took that away from Gief, and I highly doubt we’ll see another patch T__T.


#16

Make hp tomahawk fully hit invincible and come out in 5 frames instead of 8 that is just retarded

Make hp tomahawk juggle so you should be able to do cl st rh link hp dp the the fact we have to use ex dp on this is garbage

Make cr mp come out in 4 frames

cr mk out in 5 frames and should only be -1 on block as well as special cancelable so you can combo mk into ex spire or regular spire

condor spire should come out in 15 frames and ex in 10 and should not a stupid amount of minus frames on hit maybe -1 at the worst and should be at worst -3 on block

condor dive should recover closer to the opponent on hit

ultra 2 uses kick inputs

hes good its just his specials are ass which ruins his whole games


#17

His non ex dp’s are what really frustrates me. Why even give him a dp if they’re so ass on startup? I’d be happy if they only changed this. Make them all 5 frame startup and they’d actually be useful.


#18

Honestly…if you make these changes he would be ok… Nt amazing…but ok.

  • change the frame data on condor spire so that it can link and connect with normals like jab and short and make it -2 on block
  • make condor spire un punishable hit
  • reduce the frames for his dp by 1 for each strength
    -make ex dp invincible to projectiles, period
  • extend his spd range on jab spd slightly forward OR buff each version by 10
    -make all version dp airborne

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#19

I don’t really care how effective my proposed additions will be, I just want to be able to do this stuff.

I want T. Hawk to have an air grab.

I want him to be able to FADC his Tomahawk buster into Ultra 2 (I know you can’t do that because it’s an air grab, therefore I want capcom to make a special juggle state just for T. Hawk where that works)

When he condor dives, I want him to drop several bombs underneath his trajectory, each one causing a special juggle state that knocks you into the next bomb.

When he command grabs, I want the opponent to be buried to their head underground, and force the opponent to tap buttons madly to dig their way out, while T.Hawk gets to harass with crouching moves.

And finally, I want Condor Dive to have Demon Flip properties that allow you to grab people out of the air, hit them, or stop just short of them to bait reversals at the touch of a button.

Modest and subtle requests to say the least. :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

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