So Rose ultimately got screwed in this update again

rose

#1

So after playing for a while and getting excited about the damage buffs Rose got and the new invincibility frames for SS it has hit me that Rose was really screwed in her ability to escape throw set ups with the removal of throw invincibility from SS. So upon wake up Rose options are backdash and get option select sweeped or worse, try and tech and get SRK or SPD, block and get grabbed, attempt reversal SS and get grabbed anyway, CL MK and again get option select SRK. It even worse with grapplers because you can’t even attempt to tech the throw set up or you eat a SPD.

Get knocked down against a good player and it’s even worse trying to get out of the nonsense than it was in AE 2012.


USF4 Tier List Thread (updated October 2015)
#2

since when has wake up spiral been a good option ? it’s always been a gamble.


#3

Not saying it was always “great” option but it was an option and would blow up Abel’s throw attempt shenanigans on your wake up or for Hakan’s oil dive throw on your wake up nonsense. Now the only real way to escape Hakan’s oli dive on wake up is to try an catch him with exST, but if you miss or he cancels oil dive to crouch he gets easy punish and keep you in the guessing game. It’s absolute hell trying to get out of these situations now. It’s not like Rose had a lot of wake up options before but now she has one less and with it gone I really feel she’s going to be in for some hard times, harder than before.


#4

I get what you’re saying but Rose has gotten better overall by far. Backdash still escapes throws. Sure you don’t do any reversal damage but she can’t be AMAZING in all phases of the game. Her damage buffs are great and her normals are still super good. And U2 is still good as well. My point is that her other tools DEFINITELY make up for a lack of a great reversal. And what’s more, she can stun/kill so much easier now. So any punish you dish out is that much scarier.


#5

Back dashing Hakan’s oil dive just means you get thrown by it anyway. I don’t think you understand how much worse it is trying to get out of the guessing games with the nerf to exSS throw invincibility. Try playing a higher level player that understands what they are doing and that rose has no real options to escape simple throw setups and can keep you in 50/50 hell.

I’m not asking for her to be “amazing” in all situations but to gimp her already weak wake up options is a real problem. Fantastic, they gave her more invincibility frames for exSS but deleted it’s throw invincibility. This was intended to be her “reversal” move and was even stated as such in Combofiend’s video addressing it. But it’s clear he doesn’t play her or at least play her very much if he think’s “balancing” it’s couple more frames of invincibility warrants deleting it’s throw invincibility. I’d rather have the old version back where it was indeed a reliable option to blow up throw setups and if they blocked you can still FADC back dash to get out of pressure. This costs 3 bars to do just to make exSS safe. Now it’s been castrated even further. How you supposed Rose “players” are OK with this makes no sense.


#6

Well there’s no way for you to know what skill level I’m playing at, so your assumptions in that regard are kind of unfounded. Yes–your Hakan scenario is accurate. Yes–it’s a scenario that sucks. But you don’t ALWAYS have to be doing something on wake up. It’s still a guessing game even in the situation you’re talking about with Hakan. It seems like you’re upset because you don’t have a get-out-of-jail free card once someone gets in on you. “I wish my reversal covered options x, y and z,” is a thought I’ve often had. But how would that be fair? Rose shouldn’t be insanely easy for someone to get in on. So if they do, they should be rewarded.


#7

It’s very clear you don’t understand. If you do nothing and Hakan starts his oil dive on your wake up you get thrown, this is unavoidable because you auto stand even if you hold down to crouch. They can hold the oil dive and as soon as they see your wake up animation start they know when to release it to grab you. Delayed wake up doesn’t do anything to stop this. He forces you to do something unless you want to just take more damage and stay in the guessing game hell.

No, I don’t want a “get out of jail free” card, I just want more than one option on wake up the way we had in AE 2012. Being rewarded is all fine and dandy but against good players but now literally one knock down spells the end of the round for Rose. That’s not what I consider fair at all not when the rest of the cast has more options at their disposal. lets be honest SS isn’t a good reversal anyway it takes far to long to start up to punish a lot of things. It’s not like we can just mash exSS like shotos can mash DP and then just FADC back to safety if they don’t hit.


#8

Rose is much better in this game IMO. EX SS is now a good rushdown tool that your opponent must respect or else they get caught in whatever they were doing. Added damage and stun can end rounds quicker and make dizzy a threat. In terms of reversals getting out of throws, it sounds like you’re newer to FGs. No offense, but you just can’t complain about not being able to reversal out of everything. Jump back has always been an option for everyone from the start. You need to make actual reads to get out


#9

I agree with the Long Beach Z dude, a get out of jail card is what you feel got taken away but that seems balanced considering Rose has tools to keep Hakan out. Many characters have had to deal with that oil dive pressure situation ever since Hakan tech started pouring in long ago.

Only reason I commented is because I can related with the Oil Dive pain, I play against a pretty good Hakan, one of the better ones out there and I found that my options to prevent that 50/50 scenario is to minimize being put in that situation in the first place by poking and spacing them out.

Also, keep them from jumping in for free by anti-airing because the moment you block a neutral jump attack or jump in you are going to get 50/50’d, so avoid it in the first place and also whiff shorts to escape their long oil dive or backdash for the light oil dive, you have to guess which sucks, but then again if you guess right you can punish. Also, don’t mash backdash every time, if I’m playing against a Rose I’m expecting them to abuse backdash and punish accordingly, you can also keep Hakan guessing by doing something different or nothing at all. You also have delayed wakeup if you get knocked down…

Anyways, good luck.


#10

Mash cr.jab on wake up. Oil dive will miss you.


#11

I picked up Rose in Super and continued using her as a back up to Sakura. In USF4, I like playing Ros a lot more, I definitely feel like she got buffed. I have full confidence with her against projectile characters and I feel like I can control the pace of the match against most everyone else.


#12

Holy crap.

Let’s get this out of the way.

Rose has never been better. She’s even better than Super.

If you were RELYING on EX SS as a wakeup option in AE, you were BAD. That shit got duffed by every decent setup. People could WAIT, and throw you out of it.

This character has the best set of pokes in the game, and now does real, soviet damage.

EX Soul Spiral is now so godlike in the neutral that I’d rank it among the best EX moves in the game.

**She got Zangief’s EX Green Hand that:
1)knocks down
2)is only -6 point blank (-2 at range)
3)Juggles for full damage.
**


#13

Eh… im not sure how i feel about it yet. Shes better overall for sure but her WU game for getting out of pressure is not better IMO which has been a key complaint since day 0.


#14

I’m not the best rose in the world but I think she got a lot better. That’s my channel as well.


#15

have you tried not getting knocked down?

no but seriously this is Rose’s best version, you have to learn man, switch it up against your opponent, backdash, focus backdash, block, ex spiral.


#16

OK for the clowns in here that don’t seem to understand what I’m saying. I don’t mash EX SS on wake up for fucks sake. But to escape throw set ups like the one that happened to FunButton at 1:30 of his video when you can plainly see it’s coming, EXSS was a perfectly viable way out of getting thrown.

I’m disappointed that they removed yet another option (see that goddamn word? “OPTION”) from her already really bad wake up game.


#17

now now, enough name calling.
we understand what you’re saying : ex ss can’t beat throws anymore on wake-up. but now, ex ss can beat other things (ryu meaty sc.hk for instance) that it couldn’t beat before.
rose has not been “screwed” in this update, she got more buffs than nerfs. and if you keep saying it after that conversation, it means you shouldn’t have started a conversation but you should have written a blog post.


#18

EX SS is a stupid option to get out of meaty air command throw gimmicks, and I have no idea why you care when you even admit EX ST works as well. Not to mention you could just be plinking a crouch fierce to be safe anyways. Otherwise I don’t know what you are complaining about, the nerf has no effect on anything other than discouraging DUMB options, which is a good thing imo.


#19

one question… what are you going to do against zangief who can option select everything you can do in a match? You will get knocked down at least once…


#20

yep, gief is a nightmare right now with all his buffs. double ultra helps a ton though.