So that update is finally happening


#1

Rest easy men, for sometime in the short future, we will have Ryu’s bag fall over bug fixed!


#2

Keep in mind this :

Considering that 3OE is a port of a port , it’s not and will never be arcade perfect .

CPS3 Emulation like GGPO is the closest you can have if you’re seeking for real arcade stuff ( if you take out all online consideration of course ) because … it’s the arcade version that is emulated . Simple as that .

Nothing is ported , no speed issue , no EX drop , no sound bug …


#3

But you’d have to play on a perfect set up

No lag from windows/USB ports and CRT Fatboy monitors.


#4

While you’re obviously right about nothing being ported and sound bug (i suppose you’re talking about altered sounds like the infamous trashcan shoryu), GGPO also has a speed issue (still fastest than arcade, and to me, also fastest than OE), and also has the EX drop problem as it was identified later as probably an inherent mecanism of the game including arcade.

Anyway, what’s your point?


#5

My point is : if people wants arcade suff , they should play on arcade ( obviously ) or CPS3 Emulation ( if they can’t / don’t want ) , because everything else is ported , not straight emulation .

About the speed issue , i’m not talking about the frequency the arcade game is running vs emulation ( 60 fps or whatever ) , i’m talking about character-vs-character and stage speed issue , the one mentioned in the patch .


#6

That’s your opinion based on your experience.
Mine is i have a better ‘arcade feeling’ with OE, red parry and confirms are easier, speed is closer IMO. So, what am i supposed to do? Stick to GGPO fba anyway for offline? No.

About your statement about emulation >> everything else but arcade. Emulation doesn’t mean 100% perfect either. It never will actually, cause of the definition itself of emulation (quite similar as a ‘port’ actually) and the fact that you can’t perfectly simulate real hardware.
That doesn’t mean OE > GGPO, but that means anything related to hardware randomness won’t happen on PS2, OE, GGPO, etc…
And to me, those fraction of frames differences smell like hardware randomness…

I was also talking about stage speed issues, but not only…
I’m not convinced the speed issue we feel between arcade and everything else is entirely or even significantly related to stages. Fraction of frames differences cannot explain easier confirms, and particularly that they should feel easier/harder on some stages while they’re clearly not IMO.
But no one has been able to show anything relevant so far, IG statement above sadly being the closest to be a start of something afaik.


#7

That’s your opinion based on your experience.
Mine is i have a better ‘arcade feeling’ with OE, red parry and confirms are easier, speed is closer IMO. So, what am i supposed to do? Stick to GGPO fba anyway for offline? No.

About your statement about emulation >> everything else but arcade. Emulation doesn’t mean 100% perfect either. It never will actually, cause of the definition itself of emulation (quite similar as a ‘port’ actually) and the fact that you can’t perfectly simulate real hardware.
That doesn’t mean OE > GGPO, but that means anything related to hardware randomness won’t happen on PS2, OE, GGPO, etc…
And to me, those fraction of frames differences smell like hardware randomness…

I was also talking about stage speed issues, but not only…
I’m not convinced the speed issue we feel between arcade and everything else is entirely or even significantly related to stages. Fraction of frames differences cannot explain easier confirms, and particularly that they should feel easier/harder on some stages while they’re clearly not IMO.
But no one has been able to show anything relevant so far, IG statement above sadly being the closest to be a start of something afaik.


#8

Did i say that ?

You just confirm what i early state : emulation don’t simulate perfectly real arcade , but it will be ALWAYS higher that any port of any kind . It’s just a matter of fact .
To demonstrate this , i can just pull out some glitchs , like the [Necro vs Dudley glitch](Necro vs dudley glitch that doesn’t work on port ( PS2 , Dreamcast , 3OE ) , Necro vs Makoto glitch … I don’t think that this stuff is irrelevant , don’t you ?

Just some people , like this one , felt it . But as you said , it’s just a feeling .


#9

It depends on what you mean by ‘close to arcade.’ If you mean it had the same glitches, then sure it’s closer. That shouldn’t be the criteria used though. The by far most important factor when deciding which one is closest should be -

Is the gameplay speed the same
Does it handle inputs the same
Is the input lag the same
How close is it in terms of being able to hit confirm

Gameplay speed is ambiguous for now, but the majority of the community feels FBA is further from cps3 than OE. I haven’t really seen an opinion to the contrary except by people who don’t play arcade regularly and think fba is same as arcade for some reason.

OE had the same input lag as CPS3 basically. It’s possible for FBA to also, but it requires the correct setup IE CRT, OS, USB polling rate, video and audio cards and drivers. And most people playing on GGPO don’t have such a perfect situation and are playing on a far laggier setup than OE on CRT is.

As far as hit confirms, they’re both much harder than CPS3 IMO but OE is a little easier. YMMV.

If your criteria for close to arcade is ‘mimics some edge case glitches’ then fine FBA emulation is closer. If your criteria is ‘correctly captures the feeling and flow of a 3s match’ then OE on a CRT is closer. It does no good to emulate the arcade version when the gameplay speed is wrong and the setup is likely laggier.


#10

Though of course I think both are kinda off - if anyone has the money they should spring for CPS3. Neither OE or FBA is a perfect alternative IMO. I just think one is better than the other.


#11

You know, I’m curious as to what the discreet differences are between arcade and OE. Like, what really changes? We’ve discussed the Yun glitch and the meters but for all intents and purposes OE is a pretty solid port that just suffers being accelerated and after playing 3S on a cabinet, I can see that gripe being made but after that, there isn’t too much else… I think… Not saying I’d prefer OE over CPS3, I’m just saying I’d prefer OE over bitching about not having CPS3.


#12

Things I notice when I switch

Confirms are easier on cps3. For instance Chun low forward is pretty easy on cps3 but I feel on OE my attention needs to be entirely on the confirm to react in time.

Window for Chun to SJC close stand roundhouse feels tighter as well.

Kens target combo timing is different. After playing OE for a couple hours then switching to cps3 for the first few minutes I cannot reliably hit target combo -> sa3. After I adjust back it’s fine.

Kens links all feel different.

Dash ins are easier to react to on cps3. Dash throw is buffed on OE IMO lol.

Those are all just feelings. I can’t prove any of it. Just things I perceive.


#13

Also it has a bad rap song attached to it

Knock knock knock knock knock knock you out


#14

Well, posting some not directly related stuff (and partially wrong or misinformed) on the most useless topic to say GGPO > all and that if you want the closer thing to arcade, it’s ggpo ftw, i don’t see how i could have thought otherwise…

You didn’t understand what i said. You talked about stage speed issues to show how ggpo is better cause OE couldn’t replicate those. I answered that as, IMO, stage speed issues are both too small and probably/maybe hardware related, it’s not a valid argument for ggpo.

Glitches? Sure, it’s relevant if you’re some MAME integrist wanting emulation to be closest possible just for the sake of it.
But here, i want to actually play the game with the best arcade feeling possible, not being able to show some useless glitches when i want to amaze people.

I’m not saying emulation < port or ggpo < oe, just that it’s a little more complicated than ‘pick emulated stuff cause it’s per se better than anything else’…


#15

The glitches thing is most certainly only because OE is a different revision than what this dude is playing on MAME, I don’t see why would IG fix those useless glitches by themselves and not even say anything about it.


#16

What do you mean by wrong ?
I said CPS3 Emulation is closer to arcade that any port , because it’s logical , and not only GGPO but you are always talking about it . It’s difficult to accept it ? I don’t say it’s forbidden to play OE …
I bet that if you play offline with CPS3 Emulator , and the right set up like ryan said , it will be better that any port . But i’m sure it will hurt " yo feelings " .

Stage speed issues are one issue among others .

Useless glitch ? So Urien Unblockable and Oro’s are useless too ? Because Necro having an unblockable against Dudley is useless , that’s what you said .
But i’m the one partially wrong or misinformed …

You’re saying that " i prefer OE because of my feelings " . That’s fine , and honestly , i don’t care.

Anyway , OP want Ryu bag not to glitch ? You know what you have to do .


#17

Speed issues (not talking about stage ones), Ex drops : those are wrong.

"I said CPS3 Emulation is closer to arcade that any port , because it’s logical , and not only GGPO but you are always talking about it ."
Sure, but why do you post this here exactly? No one talked about this. No one answered to OP actually, before you did. So forgive me if i suspect some kind of proselytism here…

"I bet that if you play offline with CPS3 Emulator , and the right set up like ryan said , it will be better that any port ."
Yeah, like i never did that for years before…

"Useless glitch ? So Urien Unblockable and Oro’s are useless too ? Because Necro having an unblockable against Dudley is useless , that’s what you said .
But i’m the one partially wrong or misinformed …"
Hum, don’t you think it’s a little exagerated to compare regular unblockables, used from let’s say 2 to 5 times per match, to that very specific Necro Dud glitch used…well on a demo vid and one time in a Sugiyama match afaicr? Actually, i don’t understand how you can compare unblockables with this glitch at all…

If OP wants Ryu’s bag not to glitch, he can also play OE on PS3 or wait for the patch on 360 ^^


#18

Even if you have the perfect PC setup, FBA is still wrong. Wrong speed. Doesn’t play the same. All having a perfect setup does for you is reduce the lag issues.

Do you play on XP? Do you have an audio setup where you can set the audio buffer to 0f? If you’re on windows 7 or 8, you likely have micro stutter issues that are not present in cps3. If you have to buffer audio 3-6 frames (most people on ggpo do) your confirms off sound became much harder.

I mean I play on ggpo sometimes too, I’m just being realistic about what shortcomings it has.


#19

So let’s just all play cps3 and drink afterwards. Sounds great!


#20

Hopefully this article should explain some of the things that ESN is alluding to yamasaki: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

Your argument is pinned on the idea that emulation is accurate and not an imperfect imitation of the hardware, if you accept that not all emulators are perfectly accurate (and Final Burn Alpha makes no claims to be perfectly accurate) then your argument that it’s logically going to be more accurate than a port falls apart because they’re both approximations of the real thing. There’s no guarantee that any hardware specific glitch will be replicated in an inaccurate emulator either, that GGPOFBA does some of them is not evidence that it is more accurate in other areas, most notably game speed in this case.

There are attempts to create accurate CPS3 emulation such as ShmupMAME and GroovyMAME but you’d have to look into them more seriously to find out if it’s a true replication or not and obviously there’s no online component.