Soooooo... Why was Fei top tier in AE?

fei-long

#1

I’m still not able to figure this one out.

Not trying to troll, just seriously wondering why Fei was the top dog in AE. I asked Jason this question at Evo and he told me it’s because his bad matchups got nerfed. I still don’t see why he was so “good” in AE. Other than the i-frames lost on CW i really cant tell the different “versions” of the guy apart. I know that when i play against Fei, my matchup strategy hasnt changed a bit since vanilla. I didn’t think he was that good in Vanilla, Super or AE. If you ask me he’s always been kinda middle of the road in the sweet spot of not being too weak and not being too strong.

The other question I have has probably already been answered but I dont want to look through almost 9 pages of stuff to piece together stuff…

Can someone summarize exactly how these nerfs really hurt fei? Personally, I didnt think he needed to be touched at all. If i’m wrong on that assumption how “should” he have been nerfed… or buffed?

Trying to understand this meta game a bit more.


#2

People call him top tier because people saw Mago using it.

I’ve really only taken up a serious interest in using Feilong personally about 1-2 months ago, so my thoughts are just: his AE adjustments are fine. He’ll still play the same.

He has a good jumping strong cross up against some characters, since he was allowed to jab into sweep in AE, this made it a little more fun and rewarding to mix people up with. So in AE2012, they removed 1f of advantage from the standing jabs and he lost that sweep. This really depended if anybody used it a lot. Feilong is supposed to be very strong horizontal spacing character. By giving and taking that away, not much is really lost since it was only an AE feature.

The chicken wing cross up stuff was a nuisance since it crossed up sometimes and had weird hit boxes. They fixed that up since I’m sure, by design, they didn’t intend for him to have such an attribute. They’ve been trying to balance his chicken wing hit boxes since SF4 when he had infinite loops on very few characters.

Rekkas… they’ve been pretty safe when spaced right since Super Turbo. The 2nd rekkas being more punishable now just requires: 1. Feilong players choose their rekkas more precisely and really rely more on hit confirming than ever and 2. Takes out the counter hit bait with delayed 3rd Rekkas (resets damage).

Damage reductions: I think we all expected this, this is as it is. Lowering some of the damage to smooth out punishes that were too heavy on some characters (i.e. low stam!)

IMO, most of the nerfs are more like fixes. The real actual balancing is the far jab into sweep removal, delayed 3rd rekka off 2nd rekkas, and damage reductions.

These don’t really hurt him overall. I’ll still play him the same since I haven’t gotten to the level of using those tools explicitly.


#3

Ohhh so that’s was Jason meant… So fei really wasnt top tier and a bunch of people kinda just freaked out when they saw what mago could do, then it became a run away train where everyone was saying Fei was top tier because everyone around them was saying Fei was top tier?

Yeah cause that makes a bit more sense. Having jab into sweep doesnt make a character good, having a counterhit/reset setup doesnt make a character good when block beats both options

It was really just mago that was top tier then… not fei

thanks!


#4

If Mago had played Dan,people would be crying to have Dan nerfed.


#5

Seriously? The guy has the most insane normals, rekkas from everything, hits like a truck, random uppercut fadc can get you like 35%, random chicken wing can get you like 40%, great super, great ex moves, great crossups, command grab


#6

Chun has better normals. Rekkas are only safe for certain situations and some characters can punish anyways, there are harder hitters, any random DP FADC combo will hurt regardless. Only bad people are hit with random CW. Super is good damage, hardly used as far as I’ve seen. His only GREAT crossup is the ambiguous j.MP in the corner. Command Grab is DECENT…I almost want to call it below avg when compared with twins but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt.
He’s good no doubt but OP? Not in my opinion he’s at the top because of others nerfs. Don’t act like he was made perfect in every way


#7

If only. If only. cr.MK xx Rekka? Yes, please! :sunglasses:


#8

They had c.MK xx Rekkas in beta but removed it.


#9

hahahhaah yea right, that shit would be sooooo broken


#10

He has one of the best bully based offense in the game with rekka’s, which control a lot of space and can make a lot of characters with lesser options cry.

IMO, your perspective is skewed by the fact that Vega’s got it pretty sweet against Fei, a rare tough matchup for him.


#11

i wont deny that. but because i don’t understand, is sorta the whole point of why i’m asking in the first place.

so how odes Fei control space better than anyone else with a fireball?


#12

Rekka’s are just better. Fireballs, while definitely a very effective space control, are just not strong in AE due to so many characters being able to just bypass them like nothing, not to mention focus attacks. Rekka’s, on the other hand, are not able to be got through so easily. Their hitbox is very strong, so they’ll eat up a lot of low shorts and jabs (Not all), and you can get pushed about half screen. Add to that that they are a natural focus breaker, do solid damage, and are pretty free given the proper spacing, and Fei’s pretty good at controlling space. His EX Rekka is only -1(Maybe 2?) on the second hit, so with meter he pretty much has an instant get in as well.


#13

So wondering but, how is Fei’s rekka offense better than Sagat’s, and Yuns? Even given that rekkas are very good they are still one dimentional. That and CW and dash are his “only” 3 ways to really get in on an opponent. I can see once he gets in that he can do some damage, but I don’t see how it’s really easy to get in on someone using fei without your opponent making a huge mistake, or being inferior in footsies. I can just see fei running into cMKxxHado constantly if he relys on rekkas and getting dp’d if he relys on CW.


#14

Fei did have a pretty big problem with running into c.MK xx hadoken back in super, when Ryu’s c.MK hitbox and active frames were much better. The risk has definitely increased for Ryu in AE now, though.


#15

well as a ryu player i know that fei eats up c.MK xx Hado with rekkas most of the time because rekkas can counter hit it most of the time. DP beats it clean but is a huge risk of course. I thought fei was possibly the best character in super honestly.Not just because Fei vs Ryu is a 6:4 or possibly even 7:3 either lol. His rekkas are just sooooo good. they cover tins of ground and are relatively safe…and you cant focus them AND its pretty hard to counter hit them…plus his pokes are amazing. Also Fei doesnt have very many poor matchups. He is really good, and still will be in 2012 version imo.


#16

It’s a good point that you bring up that.

  1. Yes, Yun does have a better offense, hence why he’s a better character. No real argument there.

As for the rest, yes, Rekka’s are one dimensional. However, it doesn’t matter when that one dimension is stronger than most foostie options. Rekka’s come out very fast, and they do tend to beat a lot of pokes (Barring a few members fo the cast, of course). However, Fei isn’t all offense, and his defense is very palpable. Fei really should be played in a way that you sit back and wait for a whiff, or a mistimed poke, and nail them with a rekka. If it hits, go through with the rest and push them back. If it doesn’t, no harm, you’re fairly safe and got some chip out of it.

Ryu should theoretically beat Fei, but it’s not the case, and I believe Mago and some other players have called this a close to 7-3 matchup. I believe part of that is that Fei can sit on a life lead pretty well, and that fireballs are gotten around by EX CW and FADC. Even c.mkxxfireball isn’t a great option, because Fei can just throw a rekka and bam, he’s back in. Whiffing a c.mk and OS’ing the fireball in isn’t as safe either, since Rekka’s are an insane whiff punisher. I personally don’t believe it’s a 7-3, but I can see why Fei has that match clearly int he palm of his hands…fire hands :smiley:


#17

well another thing with the c.MK xx Hado thing is he can even punish them after blocking the Hado if the distance is right lol…that match is so difficult for ryu.


#18

OH lol. I didn’t say it because I wasn’t sure if it was a full punish or just a free rekka ^^;


#19

yeah he can…his second hardest matchup behind sim haha


#20

Just to let you guys know Rekkas are focusable, you run the risk of getting hit by the second if you do. Regardless he has no true guard break moves to me. He has multi hitting moves which will break focus like others. Btw I am aware that CW is autobreak on 1st hit. You’d have to focus point blank in his face AND he would have to had done it before he even knew you were going to focus for you to be hit, from a standing position. Wakeup CW is another story. Fei is strong no doubt but I highly doubt he was best in Super. I’d give that to the charge characters.