Soul Calibur 3: VC's Reborn


#1

All right we got this Alpha 3 thread so it gave me an idea…JUST LIST YOUR VC’S from SC3.:pleased:

Okay now come one, with 60+ views you’re telling me no one wants to list them? I know theres Setsukas BT throw, X’s, Zas’s, and Ivys…more please…


#2

Fine then here is some specific stuff straight from trag in the Sc.com forums…
Formerly known as “New & Improved 2G”, Variable Cancel (or VC) is a technique that allows you to cancel out of a variety of states/reactions and immediately return you to a default state.

The purpose of this thread is to show all of the known uses of VC, be it specific recovery cancelling, stance canceling, escaping certain auto-GI’s, and even cancelling certain moves outright. This is a work in progress, so as players discover more uses, I will update this post to reflect the new information.

[ :: Input Method :: ]

A VC is performed during a state that is normally uncancelable (or only cancelable by a GI). So, all of the example commands below assume you are in one of the states that are cancellable via the VC method.

Performing a VC is as simple as quickly tapping any combination of up or down twice (22, 88, 28, 82) tapping Guard with the last direction, and then returning to neutral.

Example Command: 2.2+G.5 or 2.8+G.5 or 2.8+G.5 or 8.2+G.5

While this method appears to be the absolute correct way to do it, there is an “easier” way for some people. Simple hold Guard the entire time, tap 22, 88, 28, or 82, and then release to 5.

Example Command: [G].2.2.5 or [G].8.8.5 or [G].2.8.5 or [G].8.2.5

Note: In either case, you absolutely must return the stick to 5 (Neutral) or the cancel will not go into effect.

[ :: General VC’s :: ]

— Generic GI VC Guard / Step (vs A and B)

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-01.mpg

Sequence 1: Cervantes is Just Impacted and eats Mitsu’s A.

Sequence 2: Cervantes is Just Impacted, utilizes VC, then crouches.

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-02.mpg

Sequence 1: Cervantes is Just Impacted and eats Mitsu’s B.

Sequence 2: Cervantes is Just Impacted, utilizes VC, steps to avoid the B, and then launches for a combo.

— Cervantes GI VC to B+K Auto GI

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-03.mpg

Sequence: Cervantes is Just Impacted, utilizes VC, and immediately performs B+K to auto-GI Mitsu’s B.

— Cervantes Perfect GI VC to B+G, DC B+K

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-04.mpg

Sequence: Cervantes is Just Impacted, he performs the absolute fastest possible VC, and then throws Mitsu before his B can strike.

— Cervantes VC to Guard vs Cervantes B+K Auto-GI

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-05.mpg

Sequence 1: Cervantes attacks enemy Cervantes and is auto-GI’ed with B+K.

Sequence 2: Cervantes attacks enemy Cervantes and is auto-GI’ed with B+K, but performs a VC to cancel the auto-GI stun, thus allowing him to guard the gunshot.

— Cervantes VC to Guard vs Zasalamel B+K Auto-GI

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-06.mpg

Sequence 1: Cervantes attacks Zasalamel and is auto-GI’ed with B+K. Since this move knocks down on hit, Cervantes goes to the ground.

Sequence 2: Cervantes attacks Zasalamel and is auto-GI’ed with B+K. Cervantes performs a VC and guards the second hit. Although it still guard-crushes Cervantes, he is not knocked down as on a normal hit.

— Xianghua VC to 4A+B Auto GI

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-07.mpg

Sequence 1: Xianghua attacks enemy Xianghua with A+B and is GI’ed. Enemy Xianghua scores an AA unguarded.

Sequence 2: Xianghua attacks enemy Xianghua with A+B and is GI’ed, performs a GI VC, and quickly 4A+B auto-GI’s enemy Xianghua’s AA. This example is basically identical to #3 (Cervantes VC to Auto-GI).

— Xianghua Perfect GI VC to AA (interrupts opponent AA)

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-08.mpg

Sequence 1: Xianghua attacks enemy Xianghua with A+B and is GI’ed. Enemy Xianghua scores an AA unguarded.

Sequence 2: Xianghua attacks enemy Xianghua with A+B and is GI’ed, she performs the absolute fastest possible VC, and then interrupts the enemy Xianghua’s AA with her own.

— Xianghua B+G throw, Mitsu Perfect Escape VC to AA

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-09.mpg

Sequence 1: Xianghua throws Mitsurugi with B+G. Mitsurugi Perfect Escapes (precise timing) and attempts to AA Xianghua in return. Xianghua easily guards due to the lack of any type of advantage.

Sequence 2: Xianghua throws Mitsurugi with B+G. Mitsurugi Perfect Escapes (precise timing) and then VC’s his recovery. From here he scores a free AA on the still-recovering Xianghua.

— Xianghua B+G throw, Mitsu Perfect Escape VC to B+G

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-10.mpg

Sequence 1: I first show that the CPU is set to B+G throw, then crouch at the fastest time.

Sequence 2: I then show that the CPU can crouch the default AA (non [G]225’ed) after the throw is escaped.

Sequence 3: Finally, I show that with a VC, Mitsu’s throw is guaranteed.

— Mitsu B+G throw, Seig Perfect Escape, Mitsu Recovery VC to B

http://open.tekken.net/sc3/VC-11.mpg

Sequence 1: I first show that after a perfect throw escape with Mitsu doing AA immedately after (no cancels from either side). This shows that the computer will escape the throw, and then guard at the fastest possible moment (guards the AA every time).

Sequence 2: I then show the same perfect throw escape with Mitsu utilizing the VC. Mitsu get’s a “guaranteed” 3B. I say “guaranteed” because Seigfried can also VC to make himself safe from the attack.

[ :: Reaction Theory :: ]

At maximum speed, the Repel gives +6 and the Parry gives +16 (if Loquori’s #'s are correct). Taking into account human reaction time (which is generally about .18 to .23 for fighting game players), you lose anywhere from 10 to 14 (give or take) frames… without taking into consideration actual execution time. So by those figures, outside of closed situations, it would basically be inhuman to perform the max speed cancel and execute a launcher off a Parry. Also, it shows that taking the same points into consideration, a Repel will almost never be advantageous for the person being GI’ed, unless they are planning ahead for the GI to come. In that case, just do a different move lol.

So at any rate, the point is that people shouldn’t be too worried about free launcher and the opponent gaining advantage, when, in reality, it’s most-likely not going to happen. The GI’er will almost always have advantage (most especially on a Repel) and a different mix-up game will ensue.

[ :: New Post-GI Mix-Up Theory :: ]

One of the main complaints is that VC’s ruin the post-GI meta-game. While it’s definitely changed, there’s more to look at than just the fact that the opponent no longer needs to re-GI to be safe.

In actuallity, because the opponent knows they can guard a post-GI attack attempt, and that because of human reaction limitations (as outlined above), they will always be at a disadvantage after a Repel, so the best idea is to guard or crouch/guard.

What this does is give everyone an Astaroth-like post-GI game where they can attempt a throw without worrying about a re-GI. Of course, now the opponent can crouch as well (which is definitely within the limitations of human reaction). Your other option is a mid (or a crouch throw). This basically puts the GI’er at a new 50/50 mixup that is in their favor.

A major change to post-GI game is the fact that throwing out slow moves to bait/punish a re-GI makes no difference. Since the opponent can guard right away, they have no need to attempt a GI, thus nullifying the option of using the bait/punish method. However, in cases where a slow move can give more advantage than basic quick pokes, it may still be wise to attempt if your opponent isn’t expecting anything other than a quick attack. Either way, it’s a definite change that removes one of the original GI meta-game elements.

There is still a mix-up game post-GI. Though it may or may not be inferior to SC2’s (which included 2G), it still exists with the advantage almost always residing with the initial GI’er.

[ :: End :: ]

As mentioned, this is a work-in-progress. Feel free to contribute in whatever way you deem appropriate, be it pointing out new places to use VC, or alternate ways to stop it. The actual debate on whether or not it should be allowed can be discussed over at the SC Tournament Rules Thread.

— Known VC List —

[ :: General VC’s :: ]

GI-Recovery (being GI’ed)
Throw-Recovery (escaping throw, or having throw escaped)
Clash-Recovery (2 moves of same damage clashing)
BT Throw (except Voldo)
BT Crouch Throw

[ :: Character Specific VC’s :: ]

Mitsu: 88B (1P-side), 22B (2P-side), 214A, 214B, MST 7_8_9, MST 1_2_3, RLC 7_8_9, RLC 1_2_3
Note: after a certain time in stance, MST/RLC cancels seem unavailable.

Ivy: SW B+K, WP B+K, SE A+K

Siegfried: B+K, B+K Auto-GI, SH B Auto-GI, 4B+K, 6B+K
Note: B+K, 4B+K, and 6B+K can only cancel during transition into stance (until further notice)

Cervantes: none known

Lizardman: 236 (cannot VC once in CRWL)

Cassandra: 214 Auto-GI

Voldo: BT 44K

Zasalamel: 46B+G (throw)

Yoshimitsu: BT A+G or BT B+G (throw)

Miser: 88B (1P-side), 22B (2P-side)

[ :: Character Specific Anti VC’s :: ]

This section is for all of the VC’s that can and can’t be done against a characters Auto-GI moves. If the move is listed in blue, a VC can cancel out of the automated follow-up and change the result. If it is listed in red, you cannot VC the recovery (or no one has been able to do it yet).

Cervantes: B+K, 4A+K, bA, 33/99A
Cervantes: A+K

Mitsu: A+K, B+K, MST A+B, RLC A+B+K (pointless, second hit still guard breaks)

Siegfried: B+K, SH B, BT B+K

Zasalamel: B+K
Zasalamel: WS B

Cassandra: 214, 4A+K, 4B+K

Taki: 4B


#3

All this damn leeching and no contributing…sigh…


#4

Do you know of any more GI escapes for yoshi?


#5

Not off the to[ of my head but I’m sure www.soulcalibur.com/forums will have more…