I’ve noticed that the Rog forum has been dead for a while. I take a look at this section daily: nothing new. Did everybody quit playing as him? Personally, I’ve been constantly changing to Adon/Dudley but I can’t stop coming back to our good ol’ Dirty Bull. He’s just that awesome.
This thread will be used to spark discussion. I’ll be trying to ask something that could make Balrog more interesting. Hopefully Enigmatic and RopeDrink won’t be the only the ones taking part of this.
Q1: Regarding Balrog’s dash punches, would it be fair to change the frame advantage (ON HIT) so that it ends up as neutral/positive on block? And what should be the trade-off for such a change?
Personally, I think that it’s ridiculous that he’s negative on hit (aside from MP dash upper, dash low and dash smash.) Dash punches being punishable (see: Zangief’s 720) on hit seriously doesn’t make sense to me at all. That would make Balrog much more interesting since his offense won’t stop at every dash straight/upper enders he does.
Q2: Would it be fair to make Overhead punch safe on block since the startup is easily hit/grabbed out of? Or would it be better to make its startup faster and reduce its damage?
Many characters either have an overhead attack or a crossup, or both. Balrog has a pretty bad overhead (slow startup and punishable on block) and the fact that it means getting knocked down for free discourages players to use this move entirely.
He’s fine as he is. His headbutt nerf was a bit stupid but didn’t really make too much difference, his dash punches are fine as they are, you should be ending 90% of your combos with headbutt anyway.
I think the reason a lot of people are dropping him is because of his lack of offensive options. Playing solid for 80 seconds in a round just for a Yun or Fei Long to get in once guess right twice and win is the most frustrating thing in the world. Given the way this game has evolved Balrog is starting to get left behind with no new tech while other characters are finding all sorts of crazy setups and tricks while Rog is essentially the same character as he was back in Vanilla.
That’s why I’m only playing Rog as a second nowadays at least.
Yea i agree. I like how they basically pulled down his boxer shorts and fucked him sideways in Ae then gave him the option of lube to ease the pain in 2012. I honestly wish they added something to his game or revert him back to how he was in the original, and half the time i wanna drop him but seeing people like Pr or R beast with him just makes me wanna do better with him.
But what would make him interesting would be an anti crossing up tool like make his crouching F hitbox more vertical or almost like sakuras crouch F or give him a cross up for fucks sake. I mean everyone one and there mom has a cross up in this game
I’d totally go for the old headbutt again, beat fireballs was much easier and ambiguous landing crossups on knockdown were awesome. But as for the Ultra having one less frame of startup, I think it would be ridiculously broken. His ultra is already good as it is, activating it with the kick button already makes it one frame quicker, I think it’s fair enough.
DOES HE? ZOMG1!!111!!11!!
I don’t want to read this type of stuff: *“He’s fine as he is.” *I’m talking about making him more interesting and am trying to spark discussion so that we can somehow have something active in the Balrog section. Please, don’t try to kill the exchange!
I don’t think that it’s true that we’re supposed to end our combos with headbutt 90% of the time. Quite a few moves can’t get punished by cr.LP whereas st.LP works, and its link to cr.HP is a one framer (and doesn’t deal that much damage.) With a fair tradeoff, I definitely would want to see that happening, that could make him more offensive. Which essentially would open up to new situations.
And honestly, you’ve just given us a good reason to change him just with that comparison with Yun, haha.
It’s the same here. I keep trying to drop him but seeing PR Rog, -R-, JS Master and the likes beasting as him just make me want to get better and better. Then again, there’s a reason why -R- dropped him and went for Adon, his offense is shit.
Well, his cr.Fierce is already fine as it is IMO. He needs that extra forward hitbox in order to beat far away jump-ins. I’m personally not very good with AAs but I think that what he really needs is his st.MP changed to beat crossups more effectively.
I tried to make the switch to Adon but ran into the same problem that rog has
Spacing is everything
linear play style
same bad match ups
anti air jk suck ASS
He has a useless ultra that they said tey fixed but if its not spaced correctly still goes over
hmmm its like Adon is balrog with the cross up
Wait, Wha?!? Balrog has shit offense? I think it’s fine for pressure, not mixing people to death. And cr.hp needs a buff?!? What game are you guys playing? Also, to contribute to the thread, just give him a crossup. He will actually have a mix-up game, paired with the old headbutt will make him *so *much more fun.
Balrog has very linear offense that gets shutdown easily against skilled players. His only means to do real damage against competent players is frametraps. And I never said that cr.HP needed a buff, someone else did and I responded to him.
I personally think that he doesn’t necessarily need a crossup. Look at Dudley, he’s got a pretty darn good mixup game, yet no crossup.
The Crouching Fierce trades alot for me dont know why it just does .
on another note what normal should you use that doesnt get caught up in frame traps when C.teching
Also they should have made his U2 1-0 like why give him a useless ultra and no legit way to use it smh capcom a black man can’t be better the asian char. i guess
St.lp into headbutt works and is great in footsies, I’d like to see a good reason for ending combos in dash punches because unless its an issue of charge (in which case end with st.jab, sweep) or doing and upper into throw/frametrap mixup I see no reason not to.
I was simply comparing him to a characters I find interesting (Yun/Fei) because when I’m playing them I never feel dead when I’m behind like I do with Rog, not only that but I can happily go into training mode with them for hours and find new setups, in the three years of playing Balrog I’ve found next to nothing interestig in training mode with him.
If you’re struggling with crossups jump back fierce, if you react early enough it’s easily his best anti-air. Far jump ins are just begging to get headbutted, there’s nothing wrong with his anti-airs, you just need to chose the right ones.
I’m sorry for not being ridiculous and saying he needs a fireball or his lvl 10 tap should be instant, hit the entire screen and do 1000 chip.
throw game was pretty hilarious for one
meter building went a lot quicker too iirc and was a big threat since Boxer could build meter nicely if you didn’t do anything to stop him
oh and footsies mattered
(not that I’m any good at 2…)
I agree here. Balrog’s U2 should be a much better viable option like T. Hawk’s or Gief’s U1s (in regards to how hard they are to avoid in the right situations). I love the animation and the whole idea behind the Dirty Bull with the 700 stun, but it’s way too avoidable and there are no guaranteed set ups for it.
I was just joking about him needing a fireball (although a 9mm would be way cool ).
One thing I wouldn’t mind seeing is making his far st.HP crumple on counter hit, like in SFXT- THAT would be awesome!
Sorry but it looks like you don’t understand my point AT ALL. In fact, you seem to be reading everything backwards.
St.LP > Headbutt works? I thought charge partitioning was only present in 3S and SFxT. Still, you act like dash punches are useless and should never be used. But honestly, in reality it is more often use than you’re trying to imply it. Having your own move breaking your momentum on hit / getting punished on it, is more or less fun. Not to mention that some moves are easily punishabke with st.LP but don’t get hit by cr.LP. Linking to cr.HK sure gives you a knockdown but when you see the damage other characters do and feel like it is the moment to maximize raw damage, who wouldn’t go for a dash punch? I have an irrational love for those, and really wish they would all be neutral or +1 on block. That is, with a trade-off, of course.
I NEVER said to tweak cr.HP. Another guy said he wanted it to have an extra vertical hitbox and that it would hit more over his head, and I said that it was fine as it is. He definitely needs to keep his actual hitbox because it’s great at punishing far jump-ins.
And the fireball thing was an obvious joke. Let me restate my point because you’ve missed it completely.
I’m looking into changes that would make Rog more INTERESTING. I’m not talking about free buffs, there should be obvious tradeoffs (aside from old headbutt and st.LP hitting crouching gief, gat…) He’s a solid defensive character as he is. But many people would come back yo him if he were to play like in Super Turbo.