Special and Super Throws = Semi Useless?

#1

There have been cases that the AI and random human opponents seem to jump out of super throws or just do other wacky shit to get out of them [Ryu’s hurricane kick, Ryo’s Flying Kick, Chun Li’s bird kick]. I’m like… wtf?! Even with Gief’s Lvl 3 FAB can sometimes be escaped from certain specials or other lvl 3’s.

Aside from super throws… special throws don’t get no love either. Vice’s Nailbomb only has 3 frames of start-up but you can’t even use that effectively against a waking up opponent. Same thing with Gief who has 0 frames in all of his special throws [minus the Running Bearhug/Atomic Suplex]. So what is this crap? Are super throws/special throws not reliable anymore? Cuz if Gief and Vice can have their throws escaped… then everyone is already in bad shape [like Yama and Maki… x_x feel sorry for them].

Right now I’m working on Zangief, Raiden and Vice in K-groove. I just had a sudden interest in grapplers… but noticed that my opponents been escaping their throws through random crap. Any help?

#2

If you think Iori’s scum gale is semi useless… you are insane.

#3

well you can also tech regular throws or jump up or jab before they throw. you can roll through most supers too so your argument is kinda flawed

#4

Try rolling through yama’s grab super. And if they are in range when giefs super starts up they are basically fucked. I would think by no means are special/super grabs useless. But if the person knows you are going to do them of course they will escape.

#5

against a waking up opponent, i beleive they can always escape throws, nowmal, special and super. i believe there are a certain number of frames where it looks as if the opponent should be throw-able but they are not. this was discussed as part of a discussion regarding iori’s scum gale, i think it was in one of buktooth’s threads.

#6

Oh hell yeah then I could combo him from the other side. I can’t wait to try that out

#7

Throws with startup seem the worst… like the ones you mentioned. I hate it too! It seems that these are just “sleeper” throws. You have to catch them sleeping, on the defensive afraid to attack to use them. Otherwise it seems they can just mash on jab to hit you out of them. Sucks I know…

You mentioned trying to throw people when they get up. It’s like what Tactics108 said. You can’t grab them right when they get up, you have to let them TOTALLY get up and wait for a split second defensive (asleep). It would be kinda cheap otherwise wouldn’t it? Same thing goes when they fall out of the air after being hit and land on their feet.

Throws without startup are still good… provided your opponent’s feet are on the ground at the moment you execute, they’re not in hitstun or blockstun, and they’re not invincible. Stuff like Ryu escaping with hurricane actually makes sense… It gets him into the air! you can’t grab that, good counter. This is a strategy used against grapplers in every game. Don’t have an incinvible move to stop the throw? Maybe you got one to get your feet off the ground and at least escape! That’s why people jump… it’s the easiest way to get off the ground. Lvl3s should beat it or at least avoid it… they’re usually invincible. You can’t grab what’s not there. makes sense right?

Raiden/Gief/Vice’s lvl3 grabs still seem good. The flash freezes em, and i don’t think they can counter with a special unless they anticipate you and do it beforehand… if so, that’s your problem. :slight_smile: basically what Gwai Lo said… but with more rambling.

How do you roll through Yama lvl3 grab HoneyBBgrundle? I hate eating that thing… :slight_smile:

#8

:lol:

in case you didnt notice my post was that they are not semi-useless… if you try to roll through he will grab youbasically in ANY point during your roll.

#9

I find them somewhat ineffective (not useless) but for a different reason… damage.

take Vice for example… if you go to training mode to check, you’ll notice that her throws (both P and K) do less damages than many other characters’ throws… and her special throw does like 200 more damage than her regular. which is even LESS than some characters’ normal throws.

Zangief’s running bear hug does exactly the same damage as his regular P throw, and less than the K throw if you mash. but of course the running bear hug has better properties than regular throwing with automatically grabbing and all. (of course, his close 360+K or 360+P does good damage… but those are about his main/only attacks, they have to be good)

for Iori’s scum gale, I don’t consider it to be a throw, I consider it to be an unblockable combo starter for the slow reactors :smiley: Todo’s special grab is pretty much the same thing.

#10

Totally useful and thats a fact. People can escape normal throws does that make them uselesss? NO. End of case