Special Cases?


#1

Are there special cases in this remixed game?

E.g. a specific character’s move has this hitbox for this move, which comes out at this speed with this many frames etc, except when that specific character faces this one other character, in which case one or more aspects of the move are slightly different.


#2

In a word…no. Everybody’s moves execute the same way and at the same speed, no matter when you do them or who you fight.

Now…if you want to see their hitboxes in action, go to the already very popular hitbox video thread and watch the video.


#3

I think he means like extended juggles and stuff like that but char vs char specific. 3s has alot of that.

I honestly don’t know, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is. I know certain characters are classified as skinny, fat, etc… so it would probably be grouped- if there are any of these cases, (as opposed to singled out characters).


#4

Bison’s scissor/psycho crusher corner crossups outlined in Giga-MSX’s [media=youtube]sKVjpAGnMTQ"[/media] vid are a pretty good example.


#5

Also Ken’s Roundhouse Crazy Kick “glitch” vs Ryu and Akuma where he crosses them up at point blank range only when facing right.


#6

Hmm…I guess I should’ve read that about five more times. My bad.


#7

T.Hawk’s roundhouse hold afterward he can jump and cross up only Ken and Ryu. Against the rest of the cast if you jump towards them after the roundhouse hold he will remain on the same side.


#8

I can imagine the Risk Never Sleeps info is different for each character simply due to their hitboxes being all of different widths and interacting with the corner slightly differently (yet Dictator’s is the same), as a possible explanation for that. But if not, yeah that’s a good example of what I’m talking about. Maybe a better way to put it is like this:

are the actual hitboxes (or other data about the character) different based on the match-up, ie you select your character and before round 1 starts, some look-up is done in the game to say, oh wait he’s playing a vs. b so we’ll make his cr. fierce this size.

but when you try playing your opponent’s char later on in another game vs char c, you’re afraid to do some counter against his char because you think your hitboxes are different based on how you countered it in your original a vs. b char match-up and got used to it there. So, the special cases thing confuses your intuitive understanding of the game rules. I remember reading about the remixers saying things like “in my opinion this is cheap in this situation, so we try to balance this move but only when he faces this char, everyone else it’s the same as original”. If that is accomplished only by changing the hitboxes of the char in question and not by using Special Cases /look-ups then that is better than doing look-ups, but maybe for some situations they couldn’t find another way or something other than straight Special Cases.

If 3S does this, or other games, is there a good example that explains how or clearly explains the evidence with an example?


#9

Works vs Blanka also if you are on 1p side.


#10

^^Doesn’t work on Akuma?


#11

Bison and Balrog can block some low attacks high


#12

I believe Cammy’s c.mp hit low vs some characters. I think Sim is one, idr.


#13

mrdhalsim - I’m not aware of any case where your own character’s attributes change because of who your opponent chose.

Can you give some examples?

It hits low against Gief, if I remember correctly. But this is because Gief’s hitbox is big; not because Cammy’s cr.Jab hit box changes.


#14

How low attacks can be blocked high? :confused:
There’s mid attacks like Claw’s cr.mp that can be blocked high.


#15

Against Blanka you can instantly use an attack or delay a cross up attack and you can choose which side you will attack on. Sick mind games. If you attack immediately after jumping after the RH hold you will stay on the 1p side. If you delay your attack slightly you will cross over Blanka and attack and land on the 2p side.

And yes you’re right, I just checked it in ST, you can only cross over Blanka after Hawk’s RH throw when Hawk starts on the 1P side. Good stuff.

Yes, you can cross over Akuma by jumping from both sides after Hawk’s RH hold.


#16

Ok, then it looks like there are no Special Cases if that’s true.

I’ve never played the game but I heard that one change in dhalsim vs. guile was that dhalsim’s low fierce (far) doesn’t clear under sonic booms as in original. So that means at least one or more of four possibilities:

  1. Guile’s sonic boom hitbox is bigger…
  2. Guile’s sonic boom hitbox is lower…
  3. Dhalsim’s low far fierce hitbox is bigger…
  4. Dhalsim’s low far fierce hitbox is higher…

than it is in original.


#17

Thought that C. HP and C.MP both can be blocked high by Bison and Balrog, but not by the rest

edit: bah, OP meant differences between ST and HDRemix. Yes tons of them, documented.


#18

So in the case above, with Dhalsim’s low fierce under a sonic boom, which is it? is dhalsim’s limb the same and guile’s sb lower?


#19

Oh, I misunderstood you. When you said “low attacks”, I thought that you meant “attacks that have to be blocked low”, like Ryu’s cr.RH. I see now that you actually meant “attacks that are done by while holding down on the joystick”.

I’m almost positive this is because the Sonic Boom hit box is both wider and taller. In addition to Sim not being able to cr.Fierce underneath Sonic Booms, I find it much more difficult to simply jump over a Sonic Boom, or to block one at the last possible moment.


#20

The change with Sim is that he now has a taller hitbox on the back of his body. In practice, this means is that if Sim does the cr.strong/fierce early then he’ll still hit Guile clean under his boom and recover just in time to block the boom. If he does this on reaction, with the timing you’d use in ST to hit while ducking under the boom, then Sim will get hit when the boom reaches his body.

As far as Guile’s boom being taller or wider, I can’t say. But from my experience with the above, if it has been changed then I’m pretty sure it doesn’t hit any lower than it used to.

I will say that I also find it a little tougher to block at the last second or slide at the last second under any projectile. I’m not sure if this is due to the net-code, since I play 99% online, or if it’s something with the game. Or maybe it’s just me. In the bit I have played offline it hasn’t seemed any easier to me. But, for some odd reason, the game appears to run slower offline than it does online(at the same speed setting), so that messes up all my timing anyway. Any chance you want to do another crazy test on that stuff NKI?

The only special case I’m aware of in this game is that fei’s flame kick can juggle for 4 hits, vs. everyone elses 3 hit juggle limit.

PS: Mr. Dhalsim, I’m terribly sorry about never getting back to you about your execution aid tool. I keep meaning to play with it, but between being busy IRL, HD Remix and now SF4, I haven’t been playing on PC/GGPO almost at all. I like the idea and I promise I’ll check it out eventually :lovin: