SQUARE GATE iS Not For ME


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<p class=“MsoNormal”>It is a month since almost 2 months since I owned my first
arcade sticks and I’ve never used one before.<br>
For 2 months I was not even able to pull of a QCF or SRK motions
consistently.  All this time I was practicing in training mode for SSF4AE.<br>
Today I decided to change to an octagonal gate and the difference was instantly
huge. I can pullout 2xQCF motions and even a hadouken into shinku hadouken. My
overall execution is much better than square gate and closer to that of a
controller.<br>
I also elongated the spring to increase the lbs force which made fadcs and
2xtapping much easier. But the spring would default to normal strength after
minutes of use.<br>
I was wonder how people feel comfortable using a square get. I would like to
know how to use a square gate since it is what people use the most<br>
<br>
<br>
This is my First mode and i would like someone to give resources to buy the
following items:<br>
-Stronger spring than the default but not to strong. I need something a little
bit stronger<br>
-the snap ring that hold the actuator to the spring. Mine is mess up trying to
remove it<br>
-some king of lube to the joystick if any.</p><p class=“MsoNormal”>price is not an issue but I need fast shipping in the U.S<br></p><p class=“MsoNormal”><br>
thank you</p>

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#2

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Square gate</b> = Don’t ride the edges. Practice.</span></font><br><br><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Spring</b> = What stick are you using? Many people like to combine two springs to adjust it to their liking. If you have a Sanwa JLF stick for instance, people take the JLF spring and couple it with a Seimitsu LS-32 or LS-33 or LS-55 spring to tighten the feel. If you’re trying out springs, buy a variety and try them out since they don’t exactly cost a lot.</span></font><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Example video: youtu.be/QytcbzZmXaI?t=2m49s</span><br></font><br><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Parts</b> = It depends on your stick but most parts including the bits and pieces inside your stick can be found online:</span></font><br><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>focusattack.com (US)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>paradisearcadeshop.com (US)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>arcadeshock.com (US)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>canadianjoysticks.com (Canada)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>akihabarashop.jp (Japan)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>etokki.com (SKorea)</span><br style=“box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”><span style=“color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(250, 250, 250);”>store.gameshark.net/Fight_Sticks-Parts/337 (UK)</span><br><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><br><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Lube</b> = Shin Etsu grease (from Honda dealers, although they don’t normally sell it to you) or Dow Molycote 44 Silicone grease (found at speciality hardware stores or ebay).<br></span><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOW-MOLYKOTE-44-Silicone-High-Temp-Bearing-Grease-Lube-/280549214932</span><br></font></div></div><div><span style=“font-size: small;”>Or Chapstick if you want something cheap(er).</span><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div>


#3

<span style="font-weight: normal; ">FWIW I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I tried FIVE different Japanese sticks with default square gates, dabbled in the octagonal gate and even bought two knock-off CIRCLE gates (I even did some mods with springs and gates!). While they were better for QCF’s, they were not that great for SRK’s and </span><b>especially</b> bad for blocking or charging.<div style="font-weight: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">I will say that I did find some sticks to be better than others (JLF and LS-32 should be the only choices really). In the end I’ve become very accustomed to square gate for SFIV series and would not use anything else. My only personal preference is as follows:</div><div style="font-weight: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">Sanwa Square Gate (JLF)</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-SFIV</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-SFxTK</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-Tekken</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-VF</div><div style="font-weight: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">Seimitsu Square Gate (LS-32)</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-3S</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-ST</div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">-CvS2</div><div style="font-weight: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal; ">But maybe for you it’s only gonna be this way so if you’re able to enjoy the game and get your inputs in, then by all means go for it.</div>


#4

Paradise Arcade sells custom springs, so you can get one for a JLF. Doubling springs doesn’t feel very good IMO and you’re better off getting a new spring instead. You may want to try th 2lb spring and since they’re cheap, pick up a 3lb spring just in case you want to get more tension.<br><br>Lube, you can use any silicon grease. I actually use a synthetic non-silicon grease called SuperLube which works really well, it’s about $5 for a 3 oz bottle and that should last you a while. *I’ve also used other types of grease with no problems. Some people are paranoid that over time, the grease will eat away at the plastic parts, but most grease is shipped in a plastic container and will last a lifetime in it, so I’ve never worried about that issue.<br><br>The e-clip you can remove easily by using a small flat head screwdriver, the kind you use to open electronics. Put the flat tip in one of the spaces between the middle protruding part and the end of the clip, and use the screwdriver as leverage to pop it off slowly. Once off, you can lube it so subsequent removals are easier. <br>


#5

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/19128/Exand">Exand</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Square gate</b> = Don’t ride the edges. Practice.</span></font></div>
</blockquote>

This is the most important piece of advice for using square gates.


#6

Just get used to it like everyone else.  If you do change the gate to something weird, bring that stick everywhere you go because no one wants to hear your excuses when you get stomped playing on someone else’s stick.  Those people are the worst.  


#7

But on the plus side, when you bring your stick everywhere you’ll have a lot fewer people asking to borrow it when you tell them “sure, but it’s an octo gate.”<br>


#8

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/4166/Pablo_the_Mex">Pablo_the_Mex</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Just get used to it like everyone else.  If you do change the gate to something weird, bring that stick everywhere you go because no one wants to hear your excuses when you get stomped playing on someone else’s stick.  Those people are the worst.  </div>
</blockquote>

By that logic, then, no-one should ever buy Seimitsu, or use a K-stick, or change a spring just in case they have to use something different.

I agree with taking your stick everywhere you go, though - you never know just how knackered someone else’s will be!

<br/>


#9

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Do you have the NEW or old version JLF? older JLF’s have a longer/thicker spring while new JLF have a revised/shorter spring which is feels lighter but once you mod it, it feels harder than the old spring.<br><br>Newer JLF’s also take more travel/time to engage the microswitches, newer JLF can also be modded adding levers to the switches to reduce travel, it helps a lot withy QC motions<br>


#10

<blockquote class=“Quote” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/27231/VOLDOM">VOLDOM</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/83311/The%20Banned">The Banned</a> said:</div>
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</blockquote>

Do you have the NEW or old version JLF? older JLF’s have a longer/thicker spring while new JLF have a revised/shorter spring which is feels lighter but once you mod it, it feels harder than the old spring.<br><br>Newer JLF’s also take more travel/time to engage the microswitches, newer JLF can also be modded adding levers to the switches to reduce travel, it helps a lot withy QC motions<br></div>
</blockquote>

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Sanwa lately changed JLF’s body ? Cause i can’t see a easy way to add levered switches due the column touching against the switch, exactly in the spot that a lever suppose to fit. </span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4652436746_f93b130d3b.jpg</span></font><br></div>


#11

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<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/27231/VOLDOM">VOLDOM</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/83311/The%20Banned">The Banned</a> said:</div>
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</xml><![endif]–>But the spring would default to normal strength after
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</blockquote>

Do you have the NEW or old version JLF? older JLF’s have a longer/thicker spring while new JLF have a revised/shorter spring which is feels lighter but once you mod it, it feels harder than the old spring.<br><br>Newer JLF’s also take more travel/time to engage the microswitches, newer JLF can also be modded adding levers to the switches to reduce travel, it helps a lot withy QC motions<br></div>
</blockquote>

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Sanwa lately changed JLF’s body ? Cause i can’t see a easy way to add levered switches due the column touching against the switch, exactly in the spot that a lever suppose to fit. </span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4652436746_f93b130d3b.jpg</span></font><br></div>


#12

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/23532/jaquio">jaquio</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><blockquote class=“Quote” style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/27231/VOLDOM">VOLDOM</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/83311/The%20Banned">The Banned</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>But the spring would default to normal strength after
minutes of use.<br></div>
</blockquote>

Do you have the NEW or old version JLF? older JLF’s have a longer/thicker spring while new JLF have a revised/shorter spring which is feels lighter but once you mod it, it feels harder than the old spring.<br><br>Newer JLF’s also take more travel/time to engage the microswitches, newer JLF can also be modded adding levers to the switches to reduce travel, it helps a lot withy QC motions<br></div>
</blockquote>

<font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Sanwa lately changed JLF’s body ? Cause i can’t see a easy way to add levered switches due the column touching against the switch, exactly in the spot that a lever suppose to fit. </span></font><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4040/4652436746_f93b130d3b.jpg</span></font><br></div></div>
</blockquote>

The actuator doesn’t touch the switch, I’ve put levered switches in a JLF before. It’s more similar to a LS-56 at that point but there is still more travel to engage than a LS-56. I don’t have a JLF anymore to post pics of what it would be like, but it is possible and works ok, there is still room between the switch levers and the actuator when you put levered switches in. The thing that bothers me most about that stick is the throw to engage ratio, which is why I gave it to a friend and bought some replacement Seimitsu sticks. I feel over all, their engage and throw ratio is better, and works better for throw shortening mods.<br>


#13

I did this<div><img src=“http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1908672/candy/DSC01358.JPG”></div><div><br></div><div>I also used levered omron’s (V-151-3A5) they are a tinny bit softer than the JLF ones (red switches)</div><div><img src=“https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1908672/candy/DSC02066.jpg”><img src=“https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1908672/candy/DSC02069.jpg” style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”><br></div><div><br></div><div>both solutions fit well, it just gives you that weird engage-throw ratio ‘issue’ that moonchilde mentioned… but it does fit</div><div><br></div><div>another thing to note is that because of these levers… Octagonal or Circle GATES will NOT WORK. because the levers are in the way, it will force the actuator to the square shape that the levers produce.</div>


#14

I understand now, thank you for the pictures. I didnt mean the actuator touch anything but doesn’t matter, the fact is that i tried the switches from LS-56. The lever of these switches has a little bigger lenght, see the 4 columns in the JLF’s body? We may notice that all of them touch all switches really close to the lever…omron fits because the lever is smaller, but with the 56 one, the lever touch the column so it can’t even fit.<div><br></div><div><br></div>


#15

For the gates, it’s just different preferences for different people. After over ten years of playing on square gates and getting used to them, I tried an octo and instantly fell in love. 99% of the time I don’t ride the gates when I play, but that 1% of the time that In do I want it to be an octo.


#16

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/23532/jaquio">jaquio</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>I understand now, thank you for the pictures. I didnt mean the actuator touch anything but doesn’t matter, the fact is that i tried the switches from LS-56. The lever of these switches has a little bigger lenght, see the 4 columns in the JLF’s body? We may notice that all of them touch all switches really close to the lever…omron fits because the lever is smaller, but with the 56 one, the lever touch the column so it can’t even fit.<div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
</blockquote>

I think I understand what you mean now. Yeah, I can see that as a problem. The Matsushita switches in LS sticks have very “tall” levers, much more so than Zippy, Cherry, and Omron. It boils down to the size of the switch housing, if you notice on the latter 3 all have a dip in the width that Matsushita doesn’t have. If you use Omron, Cherry, or Zippy levered switches in a JLF, they will all work.<br>


#17

I’ve checked arcade paradise and they are out of custom springs. <br>My execution with an octoganal gate is better but I feel that the octagonal gate adds ridiculous amount of travel. <br>Some people say that seimitsu joystick are faster due to low throw and engage distance. So I ordered a seimitsu ls-58 with ls-56  octo gate.First  I’ll try the square gate on Seimitsu to see If I was not experiencing a JLF problem. I hope the spring in that ls-58 is stronger than that on the JLF<br>I’m very confused right know, learning a stick is very frustrating and add to that the parts and what not. I don’t even know I would fit/connect the  ls-58 into my sfxt stick<br>


#18

LS-58 octo is the best (for me)…if the spring are too sfoft,put a LS-56’s spring inside.<div style=“font-style: normal;”>If you really want play with a square gate,try a LS-40.</div><div style=“font-style: normal;”><br></div><div><div>Personally i have wasted a lot of time to try to play with JLF’s square gate…it’s not for me.</div><div>After try some many other stick and combinaison now,i can say to people:“stop to adapt to your stick,but adapt your stick to you”</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>


#19

I use an octo gate for 5 days but on weekends I use square gate joysticks. Need few sessions to adapt to controllers. I prefer the square gate. Prefer to throw a fireball accidentally rather than an easy shoryuken. I feel also that I have more control, despite the difficulty.  <br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/2216/VPT">VPT</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><b><i><span style="font-weight: normal; ">FWIW I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. I tried FIVE different Japanese sticks with default square gates, dabbled in the octagonal gate and even bought two knock-off CIRCLE gates (I even did some mods with springs and gates!). While they were better for QCF’s, they were not that great for SRK’s and </span>especially bad for blocking or charging.</i></b><br><br>I tried some moves in KOF98. Leona’s V-Slasher performs completely
different in square and octo.  move is jump, df, hcb, punch. While in
octo after the df you can move the stick back to a horizontal line and
move will work, in square gate after the the df you have to move the
stick just before the center and perform a db move. <br><br>Sure, the
octo with the right training can make this move a lot easier, but the
square feels as if you have more control over that motion.<br></div></blockquote>


#20

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/44743/Ariesno">Ariesno</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>LS-58 octo is the best (for me)…if the spring are too sfoft,put a LS-56’s spring inside.<div style=“font-style: normal;”>If you really want play with a square gate,try a LS-40.</div><div style=“font-style: normal;”><br></div><div><div>Personally i have wasted a lot of time to try to play with JLF’s square gate…it’s not for me.</div><div>After try some many other stick and combinaison now,i can say to people:“stop to adapt to your stick,but adapt your stick to you”</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
</blockquote>

Where can you get a replacement spring for Ls-56? I could not find any <br>I don’t know if the spring for the ls-58 is stiff enough<br>