SSF2T: Old Character Differences List


#1

Since I can’t find a list of OG differences ANYWHERE, I figured I would try to make one. Hopefully with the help of all you wise ST players out there. :slight_smile: If anyone notices any mistakes, or that I have missed anything (I will), please reply and set me straight! When I find out new info, I will edit this list as needed. I will also include directions on how to pick the SSF2 (old) version of a character at the bottom of this list. Let’s get started…

Every Character

  • No super
  • Cannot tech. Throws
  • Faster walk speed

Ryu

  • No f+HP rush punch
  • No f+MP overhead
  • Invincible DP
  • Better release/recovery on FBs
  • Hurricane Kick has one less rotation
  • No juggle j.MP
  • Can cancel far s.rh
    Best Version: New?

Ken

  • No Funny Axe Kicks
  • RH long kick changed to old RH
  • DP is invincible and has very short recovery
  • Jab FB slower, HP FB faster
  • Cross-up now with Roundhouse
  • No cross-up j.MK
  • No f+MK Knee Bash Hold
  • No Airthrow
  • HP DP has better knockdown rate in combos
    Best Version: Old, New is good

Chun Li

  • Different SBK Motion (charge d,u+k)
  • No Triple Upkick
  • SBK has invincibilty/hits on way up
  • df+MK changed to b/f+MK when close
  • df+RH changed to b/f+RH when close
    Best Version: ??

E.Honda

  • No hcb+p Buttafuco special throw
  • HHS movement is now controlled by joystick
  • No controllable straight jump HP
  • s.LK/MK changed to d.LK/MK
  • d.LK/MK changed to close LK/MK
  • s.RH chnaged to close RH
  • f/b+RH changed to far RH
  • s.HP changed to d.HP (will knockdown now)
  • Close s.HP changed to s.HP (anywhere)
  • far standing kicks are all sweeps now and knockdown
    Best Version: New

Blanka

  • No KKK hops
  • No df+HP slide
  • Only cancellable normal is 1st hit of close b/f+strong heabutt (!!)
  • Vertical ball bounces back like the horizontal ball
  • No crossup short
    Best Version: New

Dhalsim

  • No limb control
  • No Upwards Yoga Blast
  • Only has 45 degree angle drill
  • Teleport is old animation, maybe worse (??)
  • Can cancel far s.MK/s.LK/s.LP
  • Can cancel first hit of close s.HP
  • Has old far s.LK
  • All jumping punches now have j.HP animation
  • No close d.HP/d.LK/d.RH
    Best Version: Debatable

Guile

  • f/b+LK Knee changed to f/b+MK
  • No Neutral HP (always backfist)
  • No Hopping s.RH
  • No b/f+MK Moving Sobat kick (it’s the knee now)
  • j.LK won’t cross-up
  • Far s.RH now high angled anti-air roundhouse kick
  • Close s.RH changed from cresent kick to high side kick
    Best Version: Debatable

Zangief

  • No Green Hand special
  • No b/f+MP/HP Hopping Headbutt
  • d.RH/far s.RH can now be cancelled
    Best Version: New

Balrog

  • Dash Straight hits crouching opponents
  • No Dash Low Punch
  • No Dash Low Uppercut
  • No Control on straight j.HP
  • Less range on Dash moves
    Best Version: New

Vega (Claw)

  • No charge db,f+K flipkick
  • Cannot pick up his Claw if he loses it
  • can cancel close/far s.forward and d.strong
    Best Version: New

Sagat

  • 1-hit Tiger Upercut
  • Can cancel both hits of s.MK, and s.LK
  • FB’s are faster, have better recovery
  • Cannot cancel close s.HP
    Best Version: O-L-D

M.Bison

  • No Juggle j.MP
  • Devil Reverse no longer controllable
  • Devil Reverse homes in on opponent automatically
    Best Version: New

Cammy

  • No Hooligan Combination
  • Only airthrow is now with RH (??)
  • All version of Spinning Knuckle can pass through FBs
  • No crossup short
    Best Version: New

Dee Jay

  • No Calypso Upkick
  • Machine Gun Upper now has invincibility
  • j.HP changed to j.MP
  • j.MP changed to j.HP
  • Can cancel d.MP
  • Cross-up forward is worse
    Best Version: New

Fei Long

  • No Triple Twisty Kick (hcf,uf+k)
  • j.RH now has animation of Twisty Kick
  • j.MK doesn’t cross-up
  • j.RH can be used as cross-up
  • Every normal can be cancelled into special (except d.HP/d.RH/s.RH)
  • f/b+MK overhead kick doesn’t move forward, and is NOT an overhead attack
    Best Version: New

T.Hawk

  • s.RH hits lower
  • s.MK/d.MK longer (??)
  • DP has a lot more invincibility
  • Cross-up d.HP works better
    Best Version: Old

How to Pick Old Characters
Exact Method: Pick your character, then quickly input the following code and hit Jab (or Jab+Short for 2nd color).

Ryu = R,R,R,L
Ken = L,L,L,R
Chun Li = D,D,D,U
E.Honda = U,U,U,D
Blanka = R,L,L,L
Dhalsim = D,U,U,U
Guile = U,D,D,D
Zangief = L,R,R,R
Balrog = R,L,L,L
Vega (Claw) = L,R,R,L
Sagat = U,D,D,U
M.Bison = D,U,U,D
Cammy = U,U,D,D
Dee Jay = D,D,U,U
Fei Long = L,L,R,R
T.Hawk = R,R,L,L

Easy Method: Pick your character, then quickly wiggle the joystick left-to-right OR up-to-down while mashing on Jab. :slight_smile:

Credits: FAQs (Kao’s/RpM’s), SRK forums, Myself


#2

Marvelscrub:

yes, old characters do walk faster.

Ryu:

FBs release and recover faster.
far roundhouse can buffer.
hurricane kick has one less rotation. Stays out for a shorter time.

Ken:

faster FB release and recovery.
fast fierce FB (but not Ryu/Sagat fast), slow jab FB.
crossup is with jump RH.

Chun Li:

SBK hits on the way up, and STILL can be done in midair.

Honda:

N. Honda’s far fierce IS O.Honda’s crouch fierce, and yes, it does knock down now.

Dhalsim:

far stand forward can buffer.
Only one foot drill (N .Sim’s d+forward drill)
no horizontal jump strong.
no vertical jump jab.

Guile:

If there’s a better recovery on O.Guile’s SB, it’s probably so subtle the difference is not noticable. (that’s why O.Guile’s multiboom combos still work with N.Guile)
stand RH is now a high spin kick. (anti air)
close RH is a straight kick to the face. (different animation and IMO very cool)

Zangief:

far RH can also buffer.

Balrog:

dash straight does hit crouchers now. range is a bit shorter though.

Sagat:

yes, he can cancel off either hit of s.short or s.forward.

Bison:

devil reverse homes in automatically.

Cammy:

you can now use strong/fierce spin knuckle to go through FBs. (N.Cammy can only use jab)

T.Hawk:

crossup is with d+fierce.

Other than all that I think you’ve got the bases covered.


#3

all blanka had shitty ass


#4

Thanks for the info dogberry.

One thing, can’t Hawk cross up with fierce with New Hawk? Or is it the fact that it works better with O.Hawk? He still has the forward crossup AFAIK.


#5

New Hawk can still use d+fierce to cross up but it’s much harder than with Old Hawk. I don’t play Hawk that much to care but that’s what I remember.


#6

I know that since old fei can cross up with Hk he can also combo into his f+hk now. Making for combos such as cross up hk, f+hk, ducking mk, qcf+pX3 dizzzy then finish them with whatever.


#7

Added new stuff on Sim/DJ/Ken/Etc. And best Version… Could be wrong on that though.

FS: Yeah, Old Fei is the sheeit. Doesn’t that combo only work when they’re ducking though?


#8

Yeah if you wanna combo into the cross up they have to be ducknig first.


#9

it only work on big ass guy.


#10

This is old stuff from Omni, I saved to my HD before the crash, enjoy…

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (ST)
An In-Depth Look at Old Characters
Derek Daniels

With the advent of ST being released on Dreamcast, there seems to be a resurgence in questions pertaining to old characters. Everyone is wanting to know how to pick them, what makes Old Sagat so much better than New, is there even a reason to pick Old Blanka, etc. With that in mind, I will attempt to list as many differences as possible that I know of, and hope that some of you guys can fill in some of the blanks that I am missing in an attempt to make this as accurate as possible.

Lets first discuss what Old characters universally do and dont have. The biggest difference is that they automatically lose the ability to perform a super move and the ability to tech throws (no one can tech holds in this game). Since overheads and juggles are all new to the Street Fighter engine, they cant perform these either, although they can be juggled, etc. What they do gain however is a faster walking speed and some say more damage across the board, but Im not too sure if this is accurate or not. They also gain all the good colors :slight_smile:

One of the biggest misconceptions that people have about the old characters is that they are exact replicas of their SSF2 counterparts which isnt true either. In most cases, they are completely unique from how they are in SSF2 and ST. Keep reading and you will see what I mean.

I will also include the exact command for all old characters. So something listed like, Zangief RLLL means to pick Old Zangief, the controller motion is press any button to select the character (except start and hold button?) then move joystick Right, Left, Left, Left and hit Jab for 1st player color or hit Jab+Short for 2nd player color. Also if at any time I simply type a name, like Vega and I dont prefix it with O.Vega for Old or N.Vega for new, just assume Im defaulting to New.

O.Ryu RRRL
While O.Ryu does lose the jumping Strong juggle, the Toward+Strong overhead, the Toward+Fierce rushing punch he gains a much faster fireball and recovery on his fireball. You can almost play him like Ryu in A2 trying to Fierce Red Fireball everything in your path. This alone arguably makes him better than N.Ryu in some peoples minds. His Roundhouse Hurricane kick also spins one less revolution than New which comes in handy now and then, especially when going over sonic booms, low tigers, etc. His Dragon Punch returns back to being completely invincible, which in all honestly doesnt make that much of a difference. Last but not least, he retains a few combos that his New counterpart doesnt possess due to Far Standing Roundhouse buffers. You can do Crossup Roundhouse, Low Strong, Standing Roundhouse into Fireball versus Zangief N.Ryu cant.

O.Ken LLLR
The differences between N.Ken and O.Ken are probably the biggest between any 2 characters in the entire game. N.Ken gained all sorts of new moves that have become staples to Kens design in the Alpha series and beyond. The main things to take note of are that O.Kens Fireballs behave much differently, Jab is really slow, Fierce is really fast. His Dragon Punch is back to being invincible, which like Ryu doesnt make that much of a difference. He can cross up with Jump Roundhouse, New can only cross up with Forward (which is a much better cross up), he loses the air throw that New has, as well as the Knee Bash that New has. Some of his normals have been changed also, like standing Roundhouse and standing Short. Due to how in general Old Characters walk faster, combined with his very slow and fast fireballs O.Ken is an amazingly solid fireball trap character.

O.Honda UUUD
While N.Honda did gain some truly frightening things, such as his Ochio and the ability to store it, O.Honda picked up a few things as well. Although he has lost the ability to charge while doing the hands, he is capable of controlling the hands, unlike New. His normals have also gone through major changes as well Low Fierce can now buffer which allows for some good trap patterns. Not only that but he has more knockdowns than other character. Standing Short, standing Forward, standing Roundhouse all knockdown, as well as low Roundhouse and low Fierce. He has the potential to knock you down and go for bear hug ticks nonstop. The hit box on his Low Strong seems to better than N.Hondas as well. He unfortunately loses the cool controllable jump straight up Fierce that New gains.

O.Chun Li DDUU
While so far I have been able to not only make a case for playing the old counterpart but have seen really good O.Ryu/Ken/Hondas I cant find any reason to play O.Chun. There are only two differences that I can even think of. First, her flip kick Back or Toward plus Forward kick buffersbut its not like you can put it in a real combo. Her Spinning Bird Kick keeps the old motion and also hits on the way up, so she can hit crouching opponents. Still losing a store-able super and her new rising kick are too much for me.

O.Blanka LRRR
I really dont remember what Old Blanka gains. Im pretty sure he gained some new weird buffer, like strong or something, but I forget. However, O.Blanka isnt half bad, although N.Blanka is still much better. The general Old Character trait of being able to walk faster helps out Blanka a lot when playing foot games against characters like Guile, DJ, etc.

O.Zangief RLLL
There are two main reasons why to pick O.Gief, first and foremost is losing that damn back or toward+strong/fierce hop move that New gained. I guess it has its uses, but I try to stay clear of it when I can. The second big reason is that his SPD grabs much, much faster than New. It is much harder to reverse out of SPD ticks with Old when compared to the same ticks with New. The loss of the Green Hand is usually neither here nor there versus most. He survived for years without it versus essentially the same cast of characters.

O.Guile UDDD
Along the same lines of how O.Ken is a very solid fireball trapping character, Old Guile is very very solid. His Back+Short returns to being a standing Short, not a hopping knee like N.Guile, which means he keep charging while poking with standing Short which is helpful versus Dhalsims limbs and when playing foot games. His backhands stays as either back or toward+Fierce, where as New is only Toward+Fierce. Same concept he can backhand while charging back for a sonic boom. The main thing that he loses is the cross up Short that New gained with ST. Oh well.

O.Dhalsim DUUU
If Ken gets the award for biggest difference between New and Old, then Dhalsim gets runner up. Old Dhalsim doesnt have control of his limbs, which is helpful in some situations and sucks in others. The lack of limb control is almost the #1 reason why everyone plays old, but there a few other things that stick out. Some of his far limbs buffer like his marvel incarnation! Far standing Forward and far standing Strong buffer, I think those are the only ones, something else might but nothing is coming to mind. Im pretty sure the second hit of his headbutt (up close Fierce) buffersbut I hella forget. Overall, I think N.Dhalsim is a thousand times better.

O.Thawk RRLL
One of my overall favorite character in ST I played Old Hawk for like 6 months straight one time, even playing and winning with him in one of my tournament matches at B4. The main reason why I like Old over New is the faster walking speed and the fact that I suck at doing 720 supers in ST. Old also gains a cross up that New doesnt have the down+Fierce splash. New also has a cross up that Old doesnt have, jumping Forward. I think some of his normals have more priority as well most notably low Forward, standing Forwad and standing Roundhouse but I could be on crack and be wrong, its just how it feels to me. I also believe that his Dragon Punch is either invincible or more invincible than News. Plus his old colors rock :slight_smile:

O.Cammy UUDD
I know there is something different about this hooker, but I really forget. I cant remember if she has different link combos, or a different cross up or what. I also wanna say that her spinning knuckle has more invulnerability than New. Anyone remember? Kris?

O.DJ DDUU
Another one of those, Why would you play the old incarnation characters. The only thing I can remember being different is that Low Strong buffers. His Machine Gun Uppercut might have some invulnerability to it, maybe not.


#11

(Continued)

O.Fei Long LLRR
The faster walking speed on the little guy really helps him out as well, but the main reason why you see Old Fei Long picked is because he can buffer Rekka Ken off of every normal but Low Roundhouse. So he can poke with Low Forward and buffer that into Rekka Ken or he can do Meaty Low Fierce, Standing Strong, Far Standing Fierce into Rekka, etc. Im not too sure if there is any difference between his flame kick though, prolly not is my guess. I think some of his normals might be different also, like standing Forward or something seems to be coming to mind, but I may be wrong. I do know that his Jumping Toward Roundhouse is different than New. I dont think he can cross up with jumping Forward either. Im sure JSJ can flesh this whole section out way better than I can.

O.Balrog RLLL
Dont believe the hype Old Balrog sucks. But if you are going to play him, the only things to take note of that since he loses Low Rush, all of his punch rushes hit crouching characters. Supposedly his standing Fierce is better also, but I have never really tested this. He also loses the cool guidable jump straight up Fierce that New gains.

O.Vega LRRL
Talk about a worthless old version is there anything good/different about him? I wanna say standing Forward buffers with him that doesnt buffer with New but I forget if its close or far. Even if it does who cares? Anyone got anything with him?

O.Sagat UDDU
By far the best old character incarnation, he is arguably the most interesting version of Sagat ever. The main things you need to know is that the recovery his low tiger is by far much better than New. This allows him to not only fireball trap him better than ever, but he can just throw low Roundhouse tigers over and over half the time. The second thing to take note of is that he can buffer off of the first or second hit of his standing Short (standing Forward as well?) which means he keep opponents out with far standing Short buffered into Low Tiger. The only bad I can think that he gains is a little more recovery on blocked Tiger Knee.

O.Bison DUUD
The only thing that comes to mind is he retains the old version of that charge down, up+punch move you cant control it like you can with new. I forget if his standing Short is as good as new or not, but with the lack of Jumping Strong he sucks.

Thanks: The entire ST community.


#12

all blanka sux ass


#13

[quote]
*Originally posted by marvelscrub *

Ryu
Best Version: New?

While Old Ryu is picked often for his fireballs (he can keep up with Sagat), New Ryu is more popular and I think overall better. It’s debatable though. New Ryu’s super is really good, as is being able to combo it after the jump strong juggle.

**Chun Li

Best Version: ??**

There is no reason to pick Old Chun Li. Everything she got in ST made her 10 times better. Even that is not good enough to handle some characters.

**Dhalsim
Best Version: Debatable **

While Old Sim is picked now and then, new sim just has so many weapons. Fact that he has one of the best supers in the game doesn’t hurt either.

Guile
Best Version: Debatable

While Guile’s super is straight ass… there are some characters that he simply cannot fight w/o the sobat and the step RH. Those two moves are too good not to go with N. Guile.

Balrog
Best Version: New?

New is better by far. Since he loses low rush, he can’t high rush whiff into headbutt. Not to mention he has the best super in the game. Only way he wins certain fights (O.Sagat, Ryu) is if he has super charged.

Vega (Claw)
Best Version: New?

Flip kick is a big loss. While not being a very dominating super, the fact that it’s free is a big bonus… it does’nt go away until you land it.

M.Bison
Best Version: New ?

The only reason to play O.Bison is the Devil’s Reverse tricks. Juggles and super help him tremendously.

Cammy
Best Version: ??

Losing Hooligan??? Hooligan is 10 times better than Spinning Knuckle ever was.

**Fei Long

Best Version: Debatable ?**

As fun as Old Fei can be… losing the overhead kick (TN+K) hurts his game alot. The trapping element is gone.

I credit 99.9% of my knowledge to Chris Li, Dave Wright, and Mike Creque. The Gametime ST bullys.


#14

[quote]
*Originally posted by Renegade *
**


#15

You forgot to mention the standing kicks. All of O.Honda’s standing kicks are trips. They have the same animation, but different speed and hit boxes (s.short only hits about out to a bit past Honda’s knee; s.forward only hits up to a little bit up his shin). Also, as omni’s post pointed out, the c.strong has a bit extra range.

Personally, I enjoy O.Honda a lot more than N. because of the many ways he can get a knockdown. I hate N.Honda’s normal moveset, although the ticks into ochio are too powerful.


#16

honda own blanka


#17

Added a few new things… If any could help me with Blanka it’d be great.


#18
  • that cancellable stand roundhouse isn’t on the Ryu section yet…
  • iirc, O.Blanka’s c.FK isn’t bufferable. (FK = mid strength kick button)
  • maybe clarify Dhalsim’s drills are the K ones.

#19

One different thing about Old Blanka is that his vertical ball recoils backward in its recovery (New Blanka’s drops straight down). This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it. In any case, it’s definitely something to note.


#20

Noted! Thanks guys…

Ack, I can’t cancel ANYTHING with O.Blanka except his headbutt. That’s so sad…