SSF4:AE 2012 - Looking for Help Establishing a Solid Game


#1

Hey everybody, my name is JD, I’m fourteen years old, and *Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition *was my first ever fighting game. I’m sure that set a tone for the this thread, didn’t it?
I’ve been looking at this game for a long time now, and I think I may have a *basic *(Do you see the emphasis on basic?) understanding of the game. I have tried to begin learning how to play Dudley, (Oh, I can already imagine the responses to that one.) and despite what I believe is a growing collection of knowledge concerning the character, I still fall flat on my face. I have come to the conclusion that it is due to my lack of a solid base of understanding, so I have come to this forum to ask my many, many scrubby questions. I will list a few questions below, any answer would be greatly appreciated, and any extra help would be treasured.

[INDENT=1]Why is it that everyone attempts a throw after an empty jump?[/INDENT]

It seems like this is the go to punish when ever a player forward jumps with no action at another. It seems so redundant, especially due to the fact that it always gets teched. Is it because there is some sort of post-jump recovery that I’m not aware of, which only a throw can fit into? I’d really appreciate an answer.

[INDENT=1]Why would an Oki option, which has a two frame start up, not beat out a seven frame reversal? How the heck does the wake up system even work?[/INDENT]

I was watching a forum members extensive guide to Dudley (I wish I could remember his name…). I got to a part where he began talking about Okemi options for the character. One of the options was Dudley’s crouching short. He said that it beats out all reversals eight frames or longer. Dudley’s crouching short has a two frame start up. What the heck is going on here! Shouldn’t a majority of his options, especially his meaty options, beat out anything slower than six frames?

[INDENT=1]The game seems to move so fast. How can I help give myself time to think through situations?[/INDENT]

[INDENT=1]** Punishes in general seem pretty tough to execute, all of the recovery times of moves seem so quick… How might I improve my ability to punish?**[/INDENT]

[INDENT=1]** Hit-confirming in the sense the sense of execution seems like a piece of cake, (I’ve actually surprised myself, I’ve been able to hit a lot of these combos easily.) it just seems to hard to get into Cr. Jab range. Any tips?**[/INDENT]

[INDENT=1]How the heck do safe jumps work!?![/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
I’d like to thank everyone on this forum in advance. I really appreciate having a place to ask scrubby questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (Also, if anyone knows how to indent individual lines, I’d love to know how… >.>)

[INDENT=1]Thanks,[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]JD[/INDENT]


#2

Welcome to the FGC family, JD.

Why is it that everyone attempts a throw after an empty jump?
They suck. But also, you suck. A bad player will do the easiest “mixup” that they can after an empty jump. The opponent expects an attack and there isn’t one. The recipient (if also a bad player) will eat the throw. A good player will late tech and this can be nullified. A good player will mix up throws with attacks, and late attacks to catch late techs, and sometimes you get ballsy people like Poongko doing reversals to catch mashers. A good example of Daigo abusing someone looking to tech empty jumps.

Why would an Oki option, which has a two frame start up, not beat out a seven frame reversal? How the heck does the wake up system even work?
There are no two frames moves. You misinterpreted who I can only assume is ThirtyFour. I’m not sure exactly what you mean, but I’ll throw a few ideas your way and hopefully you’ll get it. Firstly, a reversal usually has invincibility, which will blow through all other active moves. A meaty move can be timed so that the active frames end before the active frames of the reversal happen. To simplify, your short will end before the hitting part of a reversal happens. If they don’t do a reversal, there is no invincibility and so your move will hit them (blocking or not). Hopefully this helps, other people will probably throw out ideas too.

The game seems to move so fast. How can I help give myself time to think through situations?
There is no way to give yourself more time to think. Your best caused of action is practise, and there are two parts to that. The first is looking for things, being aware what your opponent will do, getting inside their head. If you are sure they will overhead, you will be able to block an overhead. If you’re looking for a jump, you will knock them out of the skies every time. The practise is playing against people, so that you get a better feel for how players behave (like you previously mentioned, people like to empty jump throw). The other thing is building muscle memory: having your fingers can react for you. You see someone jump? You’re probably thinking “I better hit that guy out of the air!”, and by now he’s already landed. If you had gone into training mode and hit a guy out of the air a hundred times, you’d have done it as soon as you had noticed. The combination of these two things is what makes players be able to “react” so well.

Punishes in general seem pretty tough to execute, all of the recovery times of moves seem so quick… How might I improve my ability to punish?
Things like Ken’s jab srk are spammed to hell and back online, and sometimes they really just aren’t punishable. Your best bet is take a few moves that you see spammed a lot and set a recorded dummy to do them. Block, and see what you can make happen. Yes, you can sweep Ryu’s srk, but what if you want a second, and then strong -> fierce -> srk. Suddenly you’ve got something to practise.

Hit-confirming in the sense the sense of execution seems like a piece of cake, (I’ve actually surprised myself, I’ve been able to hit a lot of these combos easily.) it just seems to hard to get into Cr. Jab range. Any tips?
I had this problem for a long time. With most characters, that is normally not a range you want to be in. You’re either looking to mix them up or play footsies. Look for easier combos to start with, Ryu’s low forward into fireball has tonnes of range, is easy and a powerful tool. Jabs are done after whiffed moves with low recover, frame traps, after an empty jump, you work out places per character. Dudley will usually try and get a hard knock down with some of his combo enders and just walk up into overhead/low/throw/nothing mixup range. He can also do ducking to get into combo range, but a lot of Dudley is spacing and footsies until something opens up. Jabs aren’t the most important damage confirm, his st fierce does lots of damage and has miles of range (be careful not to abuse it, Thirtyfour’ll be mad).

How the heck do safe jumps work!?!
Similar to the meaty setups I mentioned before. Lemme try and go step by step. You get a hard knockdown, you do something for timing, and you jump. Jumps have four frames of landing where you can still be hit. The idea is you do a jumping attack late enough that only a few active frames come out before you land and landing frames happen. If your opponent mashes reversal, they will take long enough to start up that you will have landed already (the reason you can’t usually safe jump Ryu is because his SRK is three frames, landing is four. A few other characters have similar properties). If they do nothing, they get hit from the small active frames.

Hope this helped.****



#3

Are you kidding? This helped a ton! Thanks so much. I wish I had taken into consideration things such as invincibility when deciding on questions. I could have easily answered some of my own questions. I really appreciate your insight, it has given me a lot to think on.

Edit: Whoops, I forgot: So I presume throws have a start up longer than four frames?


#4

Shouldn’t feel bad about asking questions, they were all totally reasonable. Next time you’ll know to analyze your own questions, and that’s the sort of thing that makes you better as a player. You’re already looking better at fighting games than I was at your age. Good luck!


#5

Hey guys, I have another quick question. If reversals are moves which happen instantly on wake-up, how is that possible? All moves have start up times correct?


#6

A reversal means it comes out on the first possible frame it could be executed on. That includes start up times. The only thing reversal does is give armor breaking properties. As far as I know, the only move that starts up in one frame is angry scar.


#7

Reversal moves don’t happen instantly. Those moves still have start-up times that apply, regardless of whether or not it’s a reversal. Keep in mind that certain special moves have frames of invulnerability, which on the surface looks like they start-up instantly, but don’t.


#8

Any move can be a reversal. Reversal is a timing, that is to say the a move done with reversal timing starts the first frame out of blockstun/hitstun. A special done with reversal timing gains the Armor Breaking property even if it didn’t have it otherwise. People call some moves reversals because they are good for getting someone off you on wakeup. This usually involves either invincibility frames or a very fast startup (the fastest startups for moves - excluding super moves and command grabs like Zangief’s Spinning Piledriver - is 3 frames) so you’re as safe as possible.
Shoryuken is a classic because it is both fast and has invincible startup. Meanwhile something like Gouken’s EX Tatsu is definitely not fast - 7f - but it has invincibility for it’s whole startup, so it’s a viable reversal. The speed thing is why you see some people mashing jab on wakeup - it doesn’t commit you to a long special move that’s easily punished if blocked like Shoryuken and Gouken’s EX Tatsu do, but gives you something to hurt the opponent very quickly.

EDIT: Ninja’ed D:


#9

Thanks guys! I must have been misinterpreting the information I was reading. Although, I do have another question.

I was looking over some of Dudley’s frame data and saw that on hit, Stepping Straight (F+fierce) is at an advantage of two frames. According to ThirtyFour’s comprehensive guide on the character it is possible to link a crouching jab after you hit with Stepping Straight. This confused me, the start up for a crouching jab is three frames. How would this be mathematically possible? There is no such thing as a* negative *one-frame link.


#10

I’m no Dudley player but I do know frame data. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but that is mathematically impossible. I can only think you are reading the data wrong, ThirtyFour made an error in the data, or he/she means it’s possible to link a crouching jab after a Stepping Straight on counter hit.


#11

And then I lol’d.


#12

For a beginner obviously the game would move fast.


#13

Sorry about the previous post, I didn’t mean to be an unhelpful dick.

Anyway, welcome to Street Fighter. I find it impressive that you managed to avoid playing the other million terrific fighters that have come out before Arcade Edition somehow, but nonetheless. If you’re trying to get into Street Fighter, I strongly suggest you start with Third Strike.