SSF4 AE 2012 Tier List Thread (OP last updated May 2014)

who cares? its elf

Haha. El fuerte is a character that makes you play his game. I think he is one of if not THE toughest character to make a match up chart for.

He, however does lose to characters with a good escape option from his vortex for example a character like akuma.

run + slide, run + body press, command grab, jump, ultra 1, ultra 2, and super would like a word with u. btw body press and that grab of his can screw up ur teleport and cause red fireball to come out

El Fuerte shouldn’t be included in any chart. You can’t have a strategy vs random.


marq teddy’s guy makes me care about this game a bit more. he makes a slow game fast and dynamic, dude is all over the place. and wins, which is nice

Check out SF4:AE World Ranking - Site has been beta-released
I will do character statistics soon

I said his vortex. Do cammy or ibuki players wait for there opponent to completely stand to start a vortex? No. They do it on wake up. If fuerte runs and he’s in the air for a splash or grab then that is when akuma teleports. Fuertes recovery on those moves are too long for him to be able to punish a teleport.

Also I’ve never had trouble teleporting out of a vortex when I play with akuma. I’ll teleport the wrong way sometimes but I never get a red fireball. You must be moving the stick from one corner to the other.

There is a very clear gap between Honda, Dan and Abel and the even match ups

So he has

8 match ups 4.5-5.5 not in his favor (-4)
5 match ups 4-6 not in his favor (-5)
3 match ups 3.5-6.5 not in his favor (-4.5)
13 even match ups (+0)
3 match ups 6-4 in his favor (+3)
5 match ups 6.5-3.5 in his favor (+7.5)

Total 182 (He’s missing El Fuerte which we have as 5-5) so 187 (B-)

Better than what we ranked him (C+) but most of the ranking was done by the non-Evil Ryu player side of the match ups.

EDIT: Where did this list come from? I don’t see it on his twitter or in the forums

Well that list looks like a load of online horseshit to me but maybe Its just me who doesn’t see how E. Ryu loses to Bison or goes even with Rufus and Zangief.

I’d post the entire kumite video but I can’t find it any more. It’s easy to find all the matches though. These are the matches that made people outside Japan aware of wao.

Bonus potato recording of wao vs momochi’s Gouki (in case people didn’t know he was one of the original Akuma masters…)

Fun factoid: the diner stage on the original SFIV cab favoured zoners because it was so long. See how much further back the left edge of the screen moves (it has a car with a breakable bonnet).

His twitter -

It was also posted on srk frontpage a couple of days ago.

Interesting, if we would take his numbers - 187 points, his numbers are very close to ours - 184.5, and he would only move 1 place up.

That’s 2.5 points. It is quite size-able actually… if you gave Chun Li 2.5 points she would be higher than Sakura lol

Evil Ryu would move out of the bottom 10 at 187. He would actually move above Blanka if the match up is in fact in E. Ryu’s favor as Essex is stating.

How is Ibuki looking in Ultra? Same same but with less Knockdown hilarity?

I’m surprised and confused about his belief that Evil Ryu is only even against Dudley/Gief/Cody. Especially Gief.

Evil Ryu’s crMK - fireball being a true block string at more ranges gives Cody problems (no zonking through). Cody has trouble vs the range Evil Ryu’s crMK out ranging most of Cody’s anti-low moves like far MK. Evil Ryu’s far MK is solid against Cody (and everyone.) then there is the mobility factor and lastly the fact Evil Ryu hits HARDER than Cody does once Evil Ryu has any meter. Even meterless the damage is about even (or in Evil Ryu’s favor if he landed a LK Tatsu.)

Cody is forced to do things like try and preempt normals with crLP buffered to MK Ruffian or whiff punish crMKs with his crLK. Evil Ryu has a DP he can FADC AND a great backdash. I mean I just can’t see many situations Cody really controls the match. It’s a slug fest. Cody has higher damage whiff punishes without meter usually but other than that it seems like it’s usually in Evil Ryu’s favor at any point during the match. Personally I think Evil Ryu is harder than normal Ryu for Cody (I think Normal Ryu is 5-5)

Gief, I can’t see either. Evil Ryu has all of the shoto tools he needs to keep Gief out. The only things he is lacking is that his regular EX Fireball doesn’t knockdown *But he can use the occasional red fireball) and his crMK is 7F and thus a bit more likely to get counterhit. But Evil Ryu has the mobility, the pokes, the anti airs, the conversions from anti airing, the damage, and the zoning to at least make it 5.5-4.5 or even 6-4. I can see how it’d be slightly worse in some ways than say Ryu - Gief though.

I’d love to hear his views on some of the MUs. Gief/Cody/Dudley/Chun/Bison are the ones I’m most interested in.


Guard bug where El Fuerte’s 6+MK would cross over fixed
Crouching LP start-up reduced from 4F to 3F
Backhand Punch (HP → HP far from the opponent) now jump-cancellable
Hammer Kick (6+MK) hitbox expanded downward; changed from +3 to +2 on block
Target Combo 4 (LP → MP → HP near opponent) 2nd hit hitbox expanded downward
L Kunai throw angle now slightly weaker
L, M and H Tsujigoe recovery reduced by 6F
L, M and H Neck Breaker now cause soft knockdown instead of hard knockdown
All versions of Tsumuji hitbox slightly expanded downward
M Tsumuji recovery increased by 1F
EX Kazegiri invincibility time increased from 6F to 7F; 1st hit active frames 2-3F hitbox expanded, easier to use as an anti-air

I encourage you to go to the Ibuki character forum, lots of high level players there and discussion about ultra status.

ive seen some footage of ibuki and she pretty much the same except she cant run her braindead knockdown mixups anymore. be happy she didnt get the fei,cammy and seth treatment

Ibuki is improved aside from the neckbreaker and Kunai nerf. These nerfs were obviousely done because of Capcom’s view on vortex gameplay. Read on the Ibuki sub forum one of the player had a conversation where combofiend said the nerfs were implemented before the DWU. As it is now the neckbreaker is punishable on HIT and the nerf is obsolete because of the DWU. The DWU makes it possible to punish the kunai setup on knockdown. Probably see more grounded wakeup pressure…from most characters, not just Ibuki. Ibuki might focus more on resets instead of the hard knockdown now.

Rockpon was at the Taiwanese locationtest i think so maybe there is some Ibuki gameplay of the latest build, haven’t checked yet.

footsie fighter 4

She’s gonna be pretty alright. True you lose kunai mixups but her safejumps will still exist if you don’t tech neckbreaker and if they dwu you can still go for a high/low that’s easier to confirm into loops. Expect most Ibuki’s to end in tsumuji sweep now since there’s no reason to not tech the neckbreaker.

That sounds really good. Hopefully the general footsies in Ultra are good enough (not just mashing jab up close) that it can be the focus of the game.