Told you I’d get it done, heheh. If I’ve missed anything or there are issues, please let me know. Credit goes to the players from the previous thread.
-Rolls can be thrown
-His Wheel Kick can be beaten out by HP TK
-Burning Kick can’t be grabbed by Tornado Throw, so light Burning Kick can be used to snuff Tornado Throw attempts from up close.
*When Abel gets within sweep range of you start using your c.MP’s/c.MK’s/c.HP’s and MP knuckles. Use stuff with quick start up and stuff that can lead to combos and zone well. Abel is not Ryu. His footsies are not awesome and his best footsies are all basically light attacks that don’t combo into anything unless he has a lot of meter and can hit confirm them. He isn’t Rog where every c.LP leads to free knockdown and beats all ur shit. Just start throwing at least c.MP’s at him and get some kind of spacing and pressure going. Your c.MP or c.MK does more damage than his c.LP’s or s.LK’s and you can even try to score counter hits. Mainly because if you score a counter hit you can combo your c.MP or c.MK into EX seismo or just generally get more time to hit confirm into MP knuckle. From a distance Viper has more ways to set up damage than Abel. Abel has to kinda play more of a guessing game at longer ranges to set up damage while you actually have real footsie tools to set up damage.
You CANNOT fight Abel without MP knuckle. Sure MP knuckle takes 18 frames to become active but the hit box for it is huge so it will beat a lot of things Abel tries. From a distance it can beat wheel kicks and most of his standing normals. Some Abel players like to charge up focus to bait shit from a distance as well so you can just use MP knuckle to fuck that over too. Since Abel doesn’t have a dragon punch or footsies that lead to huge damage you can just kinda use MP knuckle at will to stop his light attack and focus attack spam. Then if he gets smart and starts trying to roll or jump you can reaction AA him or throw him out of the roll attempt. You can mix this up with feints to scare him into doing risky shit.
Also when you have Abel in the corner use more LK burn kicks. Abel doesn’t have much of an answer for well placed LK burn kicks in the corner. This match isn’t in your favor but it obviously isn’t your worst match either. Its a matchup where Viper can play real solid footsies and doesn’t need to seismo much so you can actually play more like a traditional SF character in this match. Basically set a lot of your C.Viper stuff to the side in this match and focus more on basics. Seismos aren’t bad once in a while for pressure but that’s all you really need them for. Once the Abel player starts rolling just forget them unless you have EX seismo.*-DevilJin01
*Abel is actually an even match for Viper. Neither one really dominates the other. Abel wins if he gets a successful knockdown since Viper is ass on wakeup. But Abel loses to great tk spacing by Viper. Once you space him correctly, it will be easier to jump in on some laggy normal he throws out.
Moreover, try and resist the urge of burn kicking from about half screen to 3/4ths screen unless you’re going backwards. Wheel kicks will stuff you whole around 65-75% of the time, giving Abel an untechable knockdown. Super Jumping straight up and burn kicking can beat it, but the timing is really funky to be practical. Also, EX dp grab will grab you out of all BK’s (high, instant, floating, all of them), so sometimes in situations where you would burn kick, do a meaty forward + mp to bait the EX air grab out then punish with cr. mp xx mp tk/ultra.
Also try to throw all rolls near you on reaction. The are throwable all day, so try and throw as many that you can see. On an untechable knockdown, dash up instant burn kick acts as an auto bait for a roll as you recover in time for throw. Seismo feints can sometimes also bait rolls as well.
Seismo xx tk feint is pretty good in this match as well. Also be wary of when Abel has ultra since you can’t Seismo him as often because of it.* -CoosCoos
*Abel is a slippery guy with useful moves that can counter Viper’s pressure really well. Plus he earns his living off that cross-up jump MK, and we all know Viper has a tough time dealing with cross-ups.
If he knocks down, prepare for some ugly mix-ups: cross-up into crouch HP, into standing HP, into crouch MP into change of direction, land into Tornado Throw, tick into Tornado Throw, EX Tornado Throw…the list goes on, and they all hurt.
Reversal EX Burning Kick can get Viper outta there, though. But if you miss the timing, you’re gonna get hurt.
Standing jab, Puts him right next to you, where you want him.* - The Lone Dragon[/details]
-He can be Seismoed out of his ground fireballs(will not work from max range however.)His landing recovery after an air fireball can be punished with Seismo. Light Thunder Knuckle can go under air fireballs and Ex Thunder Knuckle can go under and punish poor spaced air fireballs from a distance if timed well.
- Forward Jump+Roundhouse can beat his Demon Flips.
-If predicted, his backwards teleport can be punished by a well timed super jump-in combo or EX Thunder Knuckle.
-Light Thunder Knuckle can go under Akuma’s forward+roundhouse(double kick.) Crouch blocking will usually make the second hit whiff against Viper, and can be punished.
*"There’s really like no point for Akuma to rush in on Viper. His EX demon flip allows him to safely move towards her in an instant if he ever wants to but if he has a health lead he doesn’t need to do that either. That’s the main reason why the matchup is pretty even for both characters. Akuma does a great job staying away from Viper but if Viper catches him on one mistake she rapes his health hard on even the most basic of her combos. If she gets him in a situation to combo into her Ultra the game is pretty much done. At that point Akuma has zero health and Akuma’s abilities to set up raging demon on Viper are limited due to being able to LK/air LK burn kick on reaction to escape or punish any raging demon attempt. The matchup for Akuma is basically like fighting an extremely mobile Sagat minus having to deal with F + HK and tiger shot fireball wars. Unless Viper is knocked down or he’s planning an attack that will surely knock her down it’s not in his interest at all to go anywhere near her without a clear plan of action.
I don’t have a ton of experience on the matchup but from what I’ve seen it’s basically just stay back and try to MP/HP seismo punish him for his air fireballs from a distance and if he tries to demon flip you backdash out, vertical jump HK or reaction Ultra him if possible. You can also super jump burn kick, dash forward into MP knuckle or EX thunder knuckle air fireball attempts that aren’t super tight in spacing. Viper luckily has a lot of ways to punish air fireball attemps that half the cast can’t really deal with other than to sit there and block or play the fireball game with him.
If you do knock him down and are able to do a jump in on his wake up you have to pretty much assume Akuma is going to teleport or once in a blue moon try wake up demon. You have to be prepared for both and react accordingly to ever open up big damage on Akuma. If you can score knockdowns and then punish teleports or at least stay near him after the teleport he’ll be much easier to deal with. Next time you knock him down he’ll only have DP’s, focus attack and blocking to stay away from you at that point and Viper can take advantage of all of those easily.
I would say probably the hardest Akuma to deal with is one that can footsie well. At Evo we pretty much all figured out that shoto low forward is clearly the best poke in the game. If they’re not afraid to play a poking game with you, you have to be ready to react with the right counter. I’m still learning it all myself but it seems similar to most shotos. If he’s sticking out low forward specifically well timed that beats out a lot of what you have to offer. If he thinks you’re going to go for EX seismo to get him to move or punish a whiff he can just walk up to you and time it so it beats it before it comes out. Viper’s F + MP and LK burn kick I find are good for dealing with low forward footsies and forcing Akuma to do something different since that goes over all shoto low pokes. Then when you have him nervous about throwing low pokes you can set up your own c.MP/c.MK footsies and set up spacing for cross up burn kicks which sets up the knockdown mind games.
Akuma’s F + HK is also difficult since outside of far range Viper doesn’t have a lot to really deal with it other than crouch blocking or LP thunder knuckling under it. If you know it’s coming from a close distance and have 2 meters you can blow through it with HP knuckle and then FADC to protect yourself incase he blocks instead. Otherwise just block and try to tech, LK burn kick or backdash the eventual throw attempt during the block string."*
- DevilJin 01
"When you see them flip jump forward hk/hp or for a late reaction jump back. If they’re cancelling into them from normals can do the same or walk forward under the demon flip and thrw them on land. Also ex bk beats demon flip.-Candeisis[/details]
-LP TK and low attacks beats Dash Upper and Dash Straight.
His Ex Dash punches can be thrown out of.
Reversal Headbutts on wake-up can be stuffed by lows with the exception of the EX Version.
*"Well the way you set up the damaging stuff vs. Boxer is to get him in bad situations on wake up or via burn kick pressure. You have to sort of remember that if you whiff a lp tk, you’re going to be in some hurt, as well as taking improper burn kick angles will get you hurt as well.
Also remember that you can throw all EX punches and TAP as well. This is very important that you practice this since it’s from about a little inside sweep range.
Your burn kick pressure will be useful in this match. The better it is, the easier the time you will have. The reason for this is that because of the constant crossing, it will cause the Boxer to continuously switch sides. And if he is continuing switching sides, that means he cannot consistently keep a back charge which is important. Also, when you have him in pressure, elbows keep him from having a down charge.
Try and not burn kick towards him at about half screen. Good Boxers can and will jump back hp you, or crouching hp you if you did the kick high. Sometimes during seismo chains, you can do Seismo xx lp/mp tk to inch closer to him, but it’s best to do this from about half to 3/4ths screen. About Seismos, if you can get him to land on seismos from when he jumps, it will be a lot of help to you.
Off of a hard knockdown, meaty cr. lk beats all reversal headbutts except EX which will go under it or you’ll recover in time to block IIRC. Also, I find that in this match, I go for a lot of quick rise situations. That’s because this is the easiest way to him into burn kick pressure, and eventually from the burn kick pressure, open him up to the ambiguous j. mk/hk for good damage.
And always respect the jabs. Try really hard to stay out of his jab range, and make sure you block when he’s got you in pressure. The best escapes I’ve found in this matchup are lk bk and hp tk xx fadc. Back dash also works, but do not abuse it. Good boxers will dash punch you if you try and escape.
On a back throw, or a cr. fierce xx ex seismo xx sjc fadc sweep combo, there is a way to set up a burn kick angle where should the Boxer try and escape with an EX dash punch, he will go the other way leaving him close to you for punishment. To set this up, try taking a slight step forward, then normal jump and lk burn kick.
Also, as mentioned getting just outside of of a max range jab dash punch lets you neutral jump and punish for big damage."* - CoosCoos
*"You can’t play a footsie game with Rog…because every button he has beats pretty much all of your buttons. He can pretty much choose a button and it beats what you have to offer normal wise. Jumping at him won’t do you much good because he’ll give you the Rufus treatment and c.HP or jump back HP you out of most anything. If you get knocked down…oh god you are so limited it’s dumb. I noticed what Uryo likes to do is start the round off by moving just close enough to Rog for him to want to dash punch at you and then baiting him insta super jump burn kick backwards and then you can catch him on the recovery with your burn kick landing on his head or if you fall away from him you can EX seismo or Ultra him.
This is one of those matches you can play the “brickhouse” game with though similar to Blanka since Viper does a pretty good job at least keeping Rog out for a while and that gives you time to sit on a health lead and gain momentum for later on to win the fight. The problem is it’s hard to mount any offense on Rog unless he makes a clear mistake or you otherwise knock him down with a seismo or cross up burn kick. Which he definitely has options for those but those options are safer than anything else you could try to do to him.
Once you have the health lead then you realize that there’s no way you’re going to win trying to chip him to death with seismos and Balrog can easily TAP or dash punch through one of your seismos if you get predictable. At this point you’re going to have to play the trade game with him and use your LP knuckles to at least be able to pressure him. Even if you are trading with dash punches if you are in the lead health wise it should give you enough time to move in and throw, EX seismo, or cross up burn kick behind Rog and gain a knockdown which from there you can apply pressure.
Good Rog players will know to use EX dash punch to get out of cross ups and what not but you can mix this up by throwing them out of the dash punches. Scrubby Rogs you can just jump on all day since all they do is EX headbutt and that’s super easy to safe jump and punish on whiff or block." *- DevilJin 01
Dash Upper and Dash Straight can be beaten by LP TK and anything else low.
All Ex moves can be thrown out of.
c.MP beats out Dash Punch and TAP on reaction, so if you confirm c.MP continue with a combo of your choice.
c.FP is no good 'cause of start up and I never beat anything with it, and c.LP has too small of a range to confirm, and very small combobility, he pretty much needs to be in throw range, and that’s never good.
Boxer bait with Seismo Feint xx LP.Seismo xx (SJC Combo) is good, but ONLY if you’re timing is tight, otherwise don’t even try.
*YOU MUST FFF after whiffed Headbutt, because if a good Boxer whiffs 1-2 Headbutt(s), and you FFF him, he’ll stop for good unless he’s comboing or AA.
If you can’t FFF, then go learn JUST for the sake of this matchup, because FFF after Headbutt is the ONLY free damage you’re going to get.
Unless he’s getting really predictable, I wouldn’t even attempt to give him the Viper RUSH because if you make 1 mistake, you’re taking a nice long 5 hit combo, MORE if he has meter, and god forbid he has Ultra.*-jaded805
-Horizontal Balls can be punished on block by both regular Seismo(has to be a reversal) and Ex Seismo(doesn’t have to be a reversal.) Use medium or fierce version depending on distance.
-Cr.mp(and probably cr.hp too) can beat out Horizontal Balls(don’t know about EX version.)
-Using Focus to absorb Blanka’s Backstep Roll will eliminate guessing which way it will hit you.
After absorbing, dash in, then punish.(note, if the move is done as a reversal, it’ll break your Focus)
-Cr.mp, cr.mk and overhead can beat eletricity from max distance. Cr.lk will beat it up close.
-Ex Vertical Ball can be punished by Ex Seismo and reversal Medium Thunder Knuckle on block. If Blanka does this in the corner, it is highly punishable on block and you can even FFF him. Is also highly punishable on hit in the corner too(cr.mp/cr.mk/cr.hp into whatever and even Ultra.)
-Ultra can be punished by your own if you backdash the first part(where he rolls up) and Ultra the second part(where he rolls towards you)
*You have to make him afraid to ball you inbetween the knuckles. c.MP/c.MK to MP or HP knuckle feint will have him more afraid to ball you. Since you are basically even frame advantage wise afterwards if he tries to ball you after a poke and you feint you can block and punish for free. If he’s a smart Blanka player I’m assuming he’s using EX vertical ball inbetween your strings which you can still punish on block with reversal timing EX seismo to burn kick. If he’s using MP/HP/EX horizontal balls then he’s stupid and you can punish that with either HP or EX seismo (EX doesn’t need reversal timing). HP obviously requires reversal timing but saves you meter. Either way you’ve got a strong punish for either ball on block.
Then once you get him to respect your knuckle strings you can go for them a bit more willingly and I would suggest sticking to c.MP to MP knuckle once you start to get in. c.MP after a MP knuckle beats electricity and most of his other attacks free and the only thing left to do is EX up ball which is risky if you’ve been training him right. Plus it’s faster than c.MK which leaves him less room to ball in the first place. I would only use c.MK if you’re trying to knuckle him from a long distance and need something that hits under the electricity hit box. c.MP from a distance normally beats electricity too. Of course you’ll want to block once in a while after connecting or getting a MP knuckle blocked incase he decides he wants to EX up ball inbetween that.
It’s a mind game at that point but it’s always going to work in your favor once you get in especially if you have a health lead. EX up ball does no damage any ways and does nothing for Blanka but reset his positioning. As long as you haven’t been getting your butt kicked for half the round it shouldn’t be an issue. The only other thing you might have to worry about is shenanigan Ultra to try and beat your pressure but again…if you’ve been mixing in feinting and blocking inbetween your strings this will be risky for him and if you catch it you can easily block or backdash the ultra and punish with your Ultra or whatever. The only other things that Blanka can do relatively safely are EX rainbow roll and backdash. Ex Rainbow he won’t really try to use to hit you unless he’s feeling hella risky and will probably do this just to reset his positioning away from you if he’s near the corner. Backdashing is probably his absolute safest option unless he’s in the corner but if you anticipate this you can time your MP knuckle to hit him at the end of his backdash or just walk forward at him to position him more towards the corner. Especially for C.Viper positionally you have the game won if Blanka is in the corner. Pretty much all of his balls are risky to use once he’s in the corner. Even if he hits you/comboes into a blanka ball it’s still punishable if he’s in the corner.
If you wanna get really tricky you can start mixing in f+MP overhead inbetween your strings since that will beat electricity free for the most part and destroys his down charge. Which means no more having to deal with EX up ball for a short period of time. Good for going over any low pokes if he tries as well. Just have to watch out for smart blankas who will try to focus your f+MP. Which of course you can mix in with MP knuckles which beat focus. I like to do stuff like c.MP, MP knuckle…walk up c.MK, HP feint…walk up f+MP to hit him overhead and bait a ball…then walk up c.MP or c.MK feint again and continue the pressure. So many mind games especially if you’re good at cancelling into HP feint which gives you plenty of time to set up more mind games during his block stun.
To continue with Blanka…on wake up he’s a bit tricky to deal with and from what I’ve seen there’s not much point in crossing him up other than to bait stuff out of him like an EX ball or Ultra. Which you can punish both on block or back dash or super jump burn kick out the way and punish. One thing I’ve noticed that isn’t a terribly bad idea is to do a grounded WK burn kick or MK burn kick (cross up) near him on the wake up. It tends to trade or stuff balls/electricity which isn’t bad if you have a health lead.
The other use I found for this is that it seems to be pretty good for baiting Ultra. For whatever reason burn kick seems to be really good at passing through Blanka’s ultra. So if you have Blanka in the corner and he tries to shenanigan escape on wake up with Ultra…if you do WK burn kick you’ll pass through the Ultra and can Ultra him back or hit him out of it otherwise as he’s coming down. If you super jump burn kick cross over him on the wake up and he tries Ultra burn kick will also normally go right through Blanka’s Ultra as he’s in the air. If ur quick you can start up EX burn knuckle just as he falls to the ground and you’ll hit him before he gets to ball away to the other side.
When you guys are at a far distance you want to just play the seismo game with him and don’t really do much to go near him unless you’re about to die and have no choice. As long as he isn’t sitting in crouch blocking position or moving backwards otherwise if you have him near full screen it’s not a bad idea to throw a MP or HP seismo to keep him honest. If he’s trying to walk forward at you or jump you can catch him on anticipation and blow him up. You need to already be in a jumping animation to jump out of seismos so if he isn’t reacting to them immediately you’ll catch him out of a jump as well. This is especially true with EX seismos. If you knock him down you can either walk forward to gain distance or continue to pressure with seismos as he’s waking up.
EX seismo also works well to punish slides from a distance. Viper doesn’t have a super quick focus attack so using your focus attack straight up to punish slides is risky. If he’s abusing them it’s not a bad idea but otherwise I would stick to staying your distance so you can EX seismo them. Focus dash and then throwing him isn’t a bad idea either. Just be careful once Blanka starts to move in closer because although it’s a bit riskier for him to slide at closer range…if he does it from about the closest safe range for him and you EX seismo the insanely long active frames of his slide will beat EX seismo free. Unless you catch the slide right before he starts you’re getting hit.
Once Blanka starts to jump forward and crouch block near you is when you’ll have to start worrying about ball and throw mind games. c.MP is going to be pretty much your most used move in this match because of that threat. If you lose all the time to Blanka…it’s probably because you aren’t using c.MP. If the Blanka player is scrubby he’s just going to HP ball all the time which you can punish on block with almost any seismo basically. If they’re smart though they’re going to mix things up with LP and MP balls since they will stop in front of you and set him up to cross you up or throw you. This is when you want to use c.MP to hit him out of LP or MP ball before he gets to stop in front of you. If he does stop in front of you you can also stick out the c.MP to stop a throw or jump attempt to cross you up.
When he lands in front of you safely he’s probably either going to cross you up, throw you or hit you with a low attack or jab into electricity. If you think he’s going to throw then try to throw tech, hit him out of it with c.LK or c.MP or use LK burn kick to escape the throw. If you think or see him early trying to jump over and cross you just walk forward at him to escape and reset the situation. If ur quick you can try to catch him on trip guard with c.MK to MP knuckle as he’s coming down from the jump. If ur really tricky you can use close s.MK which hits insanely high in the air and will beat him out of the cross up for free if you anticipate it early. You can also use EX seismo feint to pass through the cross up and throw him. Otherwise Blanka will probably just use a low attack or jab into electricity. Just low block if you see he’s going for this and wait for an opportunity to throw out c.LK’s or c.MP to interrupt. If you have 2 or more meters you can use HP knuckle and cancel into focus dash to give you a safe option to hit him and get out of pressure. EX seismo will also work if he’s not timing his attacks to hit you out of it.
That’s what I have for now and I’ll add in some things here and there later that I find out. That’s just what I’ve learned so far from playing against MOD’s Blanka and watching vids.*-DevilJin01[/details]