Great post!!! I will get the SSF4AE guide soon and I will scan/make pic sof the Cammy pages for u guys xD
It seems like regular Cstrike crosses up much easier now, especially in the corner against a waking up opponent.
^ I’ve noticed that too.
I don’t know, at first I felt VERY awkward without the TKCS but I think I’m starting to adjust now
TKCS was never necessary for dive kick pressure. And the height restriction is not too bad either, so you can apply dive kick pressure fairly well in AE too. Everyone just has to get used to when it’s safe to press buttons after a blocked dive kick.
It helps if you do delay tech after divekicks to serve as the cr.lk to start combos and to tech throws at the same time.
So I’ve been testing out what else I can do on a wake up after a 2 hit HK spiral arrow besides the cross up MK dive kick.Of course you can LK dive kick to hit in front but I wanted to see what I could do with ex dive kick in this situation. Couldn’t land anything forward jumping but I noticed you can neutral jump and as you just start coming down if you ex strike it will hit the opponent right at the back of the head and you’ll land in back of them and can combo right into close HP for another spiral arrow loop. I don’t think it’s a cross up but I do think it’s a very usable tool. Haven’t tried it in match yet but I want to try to mix it up with my MK cross up dive kick.
Ah you can actually link ultra off this kind of like how it’s done with a back throw only this one seems more consistent at first glance. And if they try to DP when they see you neutral jump you should land on the other side and have ultra buffered ready to launch. New ex strike hit box might come in handy here. Looking forward to putting this one to work when I get a chance. :woot:
Do you mean HK dive kick to crossup or is it actually MK?
In case I wasn’t clear I was referencing another option to use from this set up:
^I’ve been using that almost always after 2 hit arrows so I wanted to see what other moves I could use for variety.
Yes that’s me.
I have several limitations to contend with:
- I have two disabilities that affect my performance, one makes me constantly tired (with highs and lows), the other degrades coordination, information processing, and muscle memorisation.
- I am stuck on a dualshock.
The result is that half the time the move I ‘asked for’ didn’t come out, this causes me to get upset or enraged and my whole game falls apart. I can’t concentrate on the match when I can’t trust my hands to do the moves without thinking (despite putting hundreds of hours of grueling practice into the motions), and it gets worse when I’m upset about that fact and focus even more on trying to make my hands obey me instead of watching my opponent. It’s the discrepancy between my intellect and the dexterity most people take for granted that makes me flip out the most.
Anyway, if I were a third party I wouldn’t believe me either (nor disbelieve me). It isn’t relevent whether you do or do not.
What i would recommend doing is asking yourself how far you would go believing there is new technology to be discovered, versus not believing it. If you don’t believe, you won’t look.
Look at Sako. At the end of Super, almost everyone played in some variation of his style. He pioneered the ‘proper’ way to play her (or showcasing something broken about her?). Before that people weren’t seeing it under their noses.
On the other hand, another limiting belief is thinking that if the technology exists then the Japanese would have discovered it. Please. That’s insulting to them.
I understand why some people are angry at me, but I’ve given my reasons. So far I can’t count one reply to me that wasn’t spiteful, snide or sarcastic in some way. Well you’re welcome. I even said I would eventually reveal all, but that wasn’t good enough.
I said the video was a hint nothing more. You think I came up with a hooligan setup? I was just having a bit of fun with the editing, no need to bite my throat out.
If I make a new Cammy it will require a lot of time in the training room. It isn’t ready to be told, yet, if I even wanted to say. Data needs to be accumulated. What needs to be understood is that Cammy is a concept character.
Seth Killian mentioned that former top street fighter players are on CAPCOM’s payroll and involved in the balancing. It’s a fantasy on my part but I do wonder, if someone, let’s say… a famous third strike player–specifically asked in his contract to be given free-reign to make one specific character exactly as he wanted it. The theme would be a very unobviously good character with a lot of mastery and imagination required.
Ono tweeted once that Cammy has “limitless potential” in response to someone complaining about her nerfing. After what I realised clicked in my head, I realised that’s exactly how I’d put it, too.
I personally feel I’ve given you a lot, but if this is met with similar responses to before, then it will be hard for me to make an effort for unlikeable people.
so when i have meter i crouch lp. then ex delayed tk:
on hit crouch lp crouch hp crouch mk mk arrow combo confirm. or far mp depends on the matchup.
on block, i would delay the crouch hp to get that frametrap comboable even on trade into crouch mk arrow. or far hk or far mk. if counter hit.
now this combo is awesome. i didnt know you can safe jump hp after crlp crhp crmk mk arrow knockdown on guile reversal flash kick whiff. os arrow or sweep to beat backdash. omg if they dont quick stand you still have time for mix up.
Wow, I never thought about safe jump timing after mk arrow knockdown. We’ll have to look into that.
If you hit anyone crouching with ex dive I’m pretty sure you can just go into ultra.
I’ve hit ryu in the shoulder with ex dive and got ultra to connect.
Try to not use jab after ex dive for hit confirm.
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- im not sure if my ex will hit hence confirm through crouch jab.
- if i use any other normal i lose my frame trap opportunity. remember after 1 light only you can do throw/ex tkcs/frame trap mixup. beyond 2 lights your opponent can just block
olympian posted about meaty spin knuckle after that combo mk arrow knockdown. mentioned on viper and rose apparently it kills all their wakeup options except wakeup ultra lol.
if spin knuckle hits you go into hp hooligan slicer slide meaty again beats all their option. i will have to test that.
fak viper. :oops:
I thought cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lk , H.Arrow doesn’t do a 2-hit Arrow? It actually does and and when you do I think the lowest type of CStrike it actually stuffs or whiffs shoryu’s (well I’ve only tried it on shotos). Well the bad part is you have to be really near your opponent for the combo to end in a 2-hit arrow. But if you connect a cross-up jumping.lk and do the cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lk , H.Arrow combo it will always be a 2-Hit Arrow.
After reading all of this, I have to say I am sorry for joking around at your expense. I often get caught up in being silly on the internet and don’t realize when I could be being an insensitive ass. I apologize.
As far as Sako goes… there were US players like Sanford using Cammy and mixing up with TKCS before him. Sako just took it to the extreme and proved that using TKCS in footsies to get +4 to +8 on block every time was a little too strong. He could do this because even delayed TKCS was too fast to react to to beat out, and it grants big rewards on hit or block. Nothing Cammy has today is remotely close to this, unfortunately.
Though I kind of do want to talk about the general idea caruga just brought up. “Where do we go from here?”
Normals: we all know how these work by now. I think it’s safe to say nothing groundbreaking can be discovered here. CH stuff is probably all that’s left to figure out, like CH cr.strong or close strong/fierce into meaty cr.fierce into U1, and that’s just a matter of someone doing the work.
Specials: we know exactly how these work as well. CSpike and SA are basic combo tools and can be used at neutral as well. Hooligan and Spin Knuckle both have 30+ frame startup which means they cannot be used at neutral at all outside of pure (risky) guesses. Hooligan has some uses where it can grab crouchers when done meaty, but again if the enemy knows that cr.lp or invincible move will beat it every time, it again becomes useless. Spin Knuckle isn’t even as useful as Hooligan, because it’s not a mixup threat at all, though it can still be used for OS against a couple characters. Cannon Strike is Cannon Strike, a divekick that gets destroyed by focus but can give you a few frames of advantage if you space it right, and also can be used with frame-perfect accuracy for unblockables. Nothing super new here, though the hk arrow UBs are nice but require the enemy to not do a delay quickstand or a late stand after arrow knockdowns, so in the end they can’t be considered reliable.
Wakeup mixup / okizeme: It’s good, and we know that it’s good. Still requires a knockdown to set up, and enemy alternating between quick and late stand means that you only have a 50/50 at doing your 50/50… not so great when you consider other oki characters. Still better than most though.
Throw Unblockables: This is the area that I see with the most room for growth. But successful UBs require 1-2 frame timing and also that the enemy doesn’t know how to counter them (either by crouching, or by moving from crouch to stand block), so I can’t see this being any sort of real game changer in the end.
What do you guys think? Is there really anywhere for Cammy to go from here?
sorry Sycho, im at class. cant read or reply to everything
but just 1 thing i dont like crouch mp frame trap. if it trades i cant link after it. what should i link on trade??? is it even possible to maximize?
at least with feirce on counter hit it links. on trade it links.!!! you can followup regardless on both situations. +++++
I’m assuming this wont work on better wake up options like SRK, Cspike, and rising jaguar etc…
Viper’s mp thunder knuckle has 14 frames of startup i wonder what’s the stuffing limit for it. Damn military messing with my testing time!
For cr.mp trades it depends what you trade with, vs lights it’s +3, vs standard mediums it’s 0, and -3 against standard heavies. Because of dual pushback on trade I don’t think you can link at all.
I was just playing around with the spin knuckle after mk arrow knockdown and I kept getting mixed results when punishing their backdashes sometimes Id get the first hit only to connect(the one where it leaves you close enough to follow up CS) and most of the time i’d get the second hit only the one with the large knockback. Im guessing it depends on when they back dash which sucks because you’d have to watch to see how they get hit to do the right follow up unless I’m getting the timing wrong but most of the time I get the second hit. Also, hooligan slicer is guaranteed unless your opponents knows like spiral arrow(even at the tip) can be fadc’d forward/back into any free combo of their choice so I laugh every time I see someone try to go for the crumple and fail but I can’t say i’ve ever seen that happen yet.
Thats actually not true!! For one im very sad face about the cammy changes but ive still been able to use her greatly, as far as Ryu they have cut him down a great deal. In a way its really good that way it makes it harder for shoto spammers to win and it makes up that do still play ryu work harder which i enjoy. Bad part though is that they cut down some of his moves that many people have had it their strategy’s for a while!! Oh well!! Keep trying and never give up!! :tup: