SSF4 Gen Match-ups & Strategies (Old)



Here is a thread for useful links

If you do not understand the explanations or need a visual for the Guaranteed Supers/Ultras. You can click on “Super” or “Ultra” (They will be in PURPLE) and it will take you to a Youtube video that shows the move in action.

UPDATE:** Videos are being made and posted to show examples so no one misses the idea. Please bare with me as this is going to take some time.**

Please send all updates and info via PM. It would be best to keep this as clean as possible and only have posts for discussion only. Thanks in advance.


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Crouching HP/Fierce: On Block - Mantis [media=youtube]UK-K1nr2p1c"]Super**[/b**[/media]** (Stand Block timing is tighter than Crouch Blocking. Crouch Fierce is a two hit move, as long as you Block one with out getting hit you can punish)**

Crouching HK/RH/Sweep: On Block - Mantis Ultra [media=youtube]uQJvtu6WQ2s"]2 (Sweep must be deep for U2) / [Super/color[/media] (Can be punished by Super even if it’s not a deep sweep)

[COLOR=green]Wheel Kick: On Block - Mantis Ultra [media=youtube]gMjCQmL07ik"]2[/media][/COLOR][media=youtube] / [COLOR=purple]Super (All Versions). On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super (Time it so you don’t go under), Crane Ultra 1 (Psychic but HK is possible on reaction if spacing is correct) / Super. On Hit - Mantis [Super(‘’)][/COLOR][/media] (Only HK)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=green]Rolls: On Reaction - Mantis Super. (While this is possible it’s very hard to hit, as he is invincible for almost the whole roll. LK - 5~26Frames, MK - 5~29F, HK&EX - 5~31F)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=green]Soulless/Ultra 1: On Block - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 (Ultra 2 must be deep) / Super. On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 (Must be done just before he’s about to strike you or it will hit).[/COLOR]

[COLOR=green]Breathless/Ultra 2: On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super (Super must be done just before he’s about to grab or you will not get the Armor Break and he will grab you)[/COLOR]

Abel w/o Meter
-This is the best case scenario for Gen overall in this match. Gen’s footsie > Abel’s at both mid and long range. Even close range Gen’s pokes are better but smart Abel’s know the crazy range on LP TT. You can harrow the Abel player with MK xx Hands or any of the other go to pokes in your arsenal with in reason(Mantis: cFP, cMP, sFK). Abel only has four options here all of which you can exploit

**1. Jump: Lesser players tend to go with this option. His jump ins are not that great for this situation and you should be able to AA them easily with either Mantis cHP or sMP. However, Abel does have an underused jump in in cases like this with his jump LP. It has odd priority and from far ranges tends to beat a lot of normal AAs, think DJ in super turbo. If you see him use this and it stuffs your AA immediately jump back, n jump or back dash. While it has very little hit stun it actually sets up spacing for either LP or MP TTs. **

2. Roll: This isn’t really an option, more of a guess and if you see it you can breathe a sigh of relief because you are probably going to be handed the match. The easiest punish for roll is just a standard grab. But learn to punish the recovery with either cLK or cLP into a combo. If you see the Abel rolling adjust your footsie to the faster options just to be safe IE less Mantis cHK

3. Focus parry: Players with really good reaction can take advantage of slower pokes by focusing canceling into dash, without the hit and punishing thanks to the speed of Abel’s dash. You are going to have to feel out it your Opp can do this with any real accuracy. If you see them focus fishing a lot your fine. Just MK xx Hands or bait and punish. If you dont and the next sweep or cHP you do he “parries” and dashes in go for either standing grab, back dash, n jump or jump back. Able has no 3 frame poke, TT takes five frames to come out his reg grab is his best option which you want to avoid at all costs. Moving forward adjust all your pokes to something you can buffer hands into

4. Play Footsie: This is Abel’s smartest choice and also the one that works well for Gen. Gen’s footsie is better, and Abel’s walk speed is poor but his footsie is not as bad as most people think. He has 4 footsie options you have deal with

-sLK: This poke is fast and deceptive range. It actually hits a touch farther than step kick. The speed allows it to stuff many pokes on start up as well as whiff punish. You will want to make sure your pokes are hitting not whiffing especially MK xx Hands to push him back out. This poke is also a spacing tool because at max range and a step farther back he can surprise dash in and its faster than people think. Use your better walk speed to disrupt his spacing as much as possible. Thankfully this poke does little damage but I win more close matches with this than anything else when using him.
-Far sMP: This poke comes out relatively quickly (5 frames) and has a ton of active frames. Its best use is for stuffing any standing poke clean. It will loose to crouch pokes though. Thankfully Abel is going to have to predict when to use it to stuff you so if you see smart use of this a little more patience or crouch pokes and you should be fine
**-Sweep: Abel’s sweep has insane range and can be canceled into any of his specials. For either mix up (roll) or safe on block COD/lk Wheel kick. Thankfully its very easy to hit him out of this since his hit box is so big. MK should stuff it on start up with ease. **
-Step Kick: By far his best poke just because of what it leads into. The range is not that great and you can use your walk speed to stay out of danger and easily poke w/ MK. Work to stay at max distance or slightly farther out because CH step kick leads to hard knockdown with perfect spacing for him without meter. On block it sets up a guessing game but not really in his favor as you can
-Reg grab (Not OS tech): This beats all his pokes and will cause a tech to his reg grab. Looses to TT
-N Jump: Best used for causing TTs to whiff allowing you to punish or to dodge reg grabs. Looses to OH, sMP and sMK but the last two pokes are seldom used here by Abel unless he read you right. Also looses to frame perfect shorts
-Jump Back: Very safe option loosing only to OH or guess sMP, sMK or frame perfect shorts. This also resets space perfectly for you for footise if you get out
-Back Dash: Best option if you dont know what to do. Only looses to OH but otherwise you can get out safe and go back to poking
**-Gekiro: This is a guess and one you dont want to take too often but EX version will beat all his pokes and grabs but looses to bait hard. **

The main benefit of Abel playing footsie with you is you should be able to control space, and tempo of the fight.

Abel w/ 1 Bar
**This is basically the same as Abel with no bar save for random EX CODs through your non hands bufferable pokes. Decent Abels and up will not use this much if at all. The meter use to reward is small as even though it scores a hard knockdown it only sets up safe jump set ups to the front minimizing his mix up options. **

Abel w/ 2 Bars
**This boils down to if he has ultra or not and which one. If he has U2 dont worry about it as its garbage in this match. If he has U1 you need to be better with your poking and spacing because a landed step kick means you will eat either FADC into Falling Sky setting up his best mix ups on your wake up or FADC into ultra. **

Abel w/3 Bars
**This is very scary. You can no longer really use any poke outside of something buffered into Hands because EX COD, through a bad sweep for example, now nets FADC combos into perfect knockdowns or ultra. Step up your footsie game in general and avoid autopilot pokes and using the same timing of set ups. **

Abel w/ Super
This is as bad as the above but also gives him a real wake up option. His super can be made hit invulnerable or grab invulnerable depending on the button he uses. It also counts as a hit not a grab so it beats Gekiro. This also stops your jump in OS reg grab on his wake up if he wants to chance the meter

Pressuring Abel’s Wake Up
Contrary to popular belief Abel can be pressured very hard on his wake up with one simple option. Safe jump/Meaty attack OS into regular grab. This beats all of his wake up options (EX COD, TT, EX TT, Roll, EX Roll, Backdash) and only looses to U2. Once you get this down you can usually get Abel to waste meter trying to get away and punish him for it. His only real option is to block which is what you want. Because this lets you start your offense. Be sure you mix up what you are doing here if he has meter because EX TT and EX COD blow right through frame traps. Proper use of Gen’s kara throw can really mess with his game. Because at max kara throw range you can grab both EX TT and COD and Grab if he is jumpy. This can lead him into trying to os Tech which is also fine because Kara puts you outside his cLK range so you can punish him. When in doubt though dont be scared to just back up, reestablish a better range and go back to poking him to death. Abel has the health to guess wrong many times in this match before you kill him.

Waking up against Abel
Without a doubt this is where Abel does the most damage. Still his wake up options are nothing like Giefs and only 2 of them are that dangerous

**Landed Back Grab or regular Falling Sky **
-This is the most dangerous position to be in no matter what meter you or Abel has because he can force the situation far in his favor
*This set sup perfect distance for ambiguous rolls forcing you to guess on blocking low or high left to right. Also adding in reg grab and TT. Your options are
*Back Dash: From a numbers stand point this is the safest option. Your BD is good enough to evade all his attacks and grabs save for Abels OH kick. Even if that hits your going to be reset and put back into range of having to block a step kick again or try for a reversal. This is still better than eating other options. Abel can also OS here into either ultra but its very tight because he has to OS off a meaty cLK or cLP. (Note he may be able to OS falling Sky if it catches Gen’s BD. This does not work on everyone and has not been tested to know for sure in Super)
*N Jump or Jump Back: These options beat any grab attempts but loose to his crouch pokes, both of which can lead to big FADC combos with meter and also loose to the OH. Best to rely on these if he has one bar or less. Even if you eat a combo ending in COD his mix up is reduced to just your front side unless he threw you into the corner
***EX Gekiro: This beats any and all grabs but it is easily baited and will loose to OS EX falling sky. This should be done only as a read on the opp **
***Block: Sometimes you are going to have to just block. While you are going to eat a TT every now and then doing this its not too bad as outside of the corner his mix up is reduced to just your front side. If you make this choice crouch block on wake up, his OH kick takes forever to come out and can be easily blocked or better yet focus back dashed on reaction. Also be ready because if you block any of his low pokes look to BD or jump out right after because more than likely this is a tick throw attempt. If you blocked his cHP you can get away free or get a small punish. **

Abel can also choose to land safe jumpins in this situation to force some OS’es or tick set ups. Though he has a better risk/reward of ambiguous rolls so this should be less of an issue. Your options are basically the same though.

Landed TT or COD out of the corner
-This is dangerous but not nearly as bad as the above because there is no risk of cross up at all. If he tries a cross up jump in its not safe so reversal as you like, if he rolls it wont be able to be meaty anything because MK or HK roll are required to cross up and they have longer recovery. When is doubt back dash or jump back as this will beat the almost all of his attacks from his situation
-However, smart Abel’s will use this as a time to just safe jump you and start mix up. Your options are the same as before but you dont have to worry about what side to block on. You just have to make the correct read to get out of trouble

Most other set ups on your wake up are all gimmicks fishing for counter hit or trying to bait a reversal. Most commonly multiple rolls on wake up. Usually Abel will LK roll to one side then MK or HK roll to the other to bait for a poke and hit CH step kick. Knowing this just block or back dash to escape

Gimmick that works on even high level players including Wong and Tokido so be mindful
-Abel can combo multiple crouch jabs into standing strong. This is often used when his first crouch jab is too far away to link into sMP or sHP. The gimmick is FADCing the sMP into TT or reg grab. While this is a risk on Abel’s part it works when used sparingly especially since the active frames of sMP give him forever to adjust the timing. Best thing here is to just be looking for the flash and as soon as you see/hear it back dash or jump back. Chances are he is going for a grab or TT because even on hit he is not going to be able to combo into pokes and the OH would be a guess on his part

Ultra Selection
Gen: U1- This is our best option for getting big damage and punishing mistakes. U2 - No real use here. You should not be jumping at Abel anyway and as such there is no need to shut down his AA’s

Abel: U1: This is his best option as it does big damage and lets him punish as well. It makes him very scary with meter. U2 - Not much use here for him. He cant set up a situation where he can gimmick into landing it because of Hands and Oga both armor breaking. However, this ultra does stop you from OSing reg grabs on his wake up. Still not worth it to him really.

**Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, Severin-X[/details]



[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Rising Jaguar: On Block - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super (All but LK Version). On Reaction - Crane Ultra 1 / Super (HK is the best Super version to use as you can hit him full screen once he says Jaguar.). On Whiff - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super.

Jaguar Kick: On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 (2 is very tricky to land, it almost has to be a whiff right in front of you) / Super, Crane Super.

Jaguar Tooth/Off The Wall Attack: On Reaction - HK & EX versions can be punished by Mantis [media=youtube]0SmCT2GC6L4"]Ultra 1 & 2 / Super(Use MP version tends to trade the least), Crane Ultra 1(Only works if you are Mid-screenish) / Super. LK & MK versions can be punished across screen by Mantis Ultra 1 / Super if timed right. It is possible to punish them with Crane Ultra 1 / [Super[/COLOR[/media] if you are in close.

His jump is a little bit tricky and most decent Adons will definately try to cross you up for a combo into jaguar. When you block a Jaguar tooth it’s probably best to just backdash since a lot the time he will either go into Jaguar kick, throw you, jump for cross-up. Jaguar Tooth can be stuffed with [media=youtube]KKyZsubD1U0"][COLOR=purple]Mantis s.HP]( or [Crane s.HK[/COLOR[/media]. EX version can also be countered with ultra, and EX gekiro. If you play a Flow-Chart Adon, he will follow up his Jaguar Tooth with a Rising Jaguar. If he is using block strings into Jaguar Kick, you can OS him with Crane c.LK+c.LP+c.HK, if he tries to throw you as a tick throw you will tech, if he tries to use Jaguar Kick, you will stuff it. If he uses neutral jump into EX or normal Air Jaguar Kick, it’s very rare for him to hit you unless he waits until the last minute. So that would give you enough time to see what he is doing. If he is smart as is actually hit confirming he will not use Rising Jaguar, unless he mixes his block strings up, so just be careful and don’t over-use the OS, and just block sometimes. Basically you need to treat his Jaguar Kick pressure like you would Rufus.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
[COLOR=“green”]Air Go-Hadouken: On Reaction - Mantis [media=youtube]PDkfHT3SaRQ"]Ultra 1]( / [Super[/COLOR[/media] (Unless it’s thrown right infront of your feet.)

[COLOR=“green”]Demon Flip Sweep: On Block - Mantis [media=youtube]ZymSIvP8kYM"]Ultra 1]( & 2 / Super. On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 (Can Trade if timed wrong) / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=“green”]Tatsu/EX Tatsu: On Reaction - Mantis [media=youtube]Mgz_b8fVE24"]Ultra 1]( / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / [Super[/COLOR[/media]

[COLOR=“green”]Blocked/Whiffed Dragon Punch (SRK): Mantis [media=youtube]0r5JRjQ4nUU"]Ultra 1]( & 2 / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / [Super[/COLOR[/media]

This match-up seems a little different than in Vanilla. You still have to watch out for his s.Round House even if you Focus Attack the first hit. You will mainly come across two types of Akuma’s. 1: That zones with nothing but Air Go-Hadouken and Red Fireball, with the usual normal Fireball. Try to read their timing and dash under, focus attack to absorb the FB’s or just jump over. If you get in close and notice they are jumping back and FB’ing, Gen’s roll (Charging back if you are doing MK > Hands is a good idea so you can switch to Crane then do roll if they jump back) works wonders vs these types of Akumas. A good Strat vs these players is sit back and absorb all the single hit FB’s to build your Ultra meter. If you have Ultra 1 Mantis Ultra is free across screen.

The 2nd type is good at zoning and usually only uses Air Go-Hadouken to move in. So Absorbing the FB’s can be a bad idea as you may eat a Demon Flip Palm. Akuma also has a Option Select which is :d: Throw or :db: Throw. When he performs this OS, he will do his c.short, if you try to grab it will act as a Tech. In some cases they may be spamming that. A LK Gekiro can punish that if timed right. If they picked his Ultra 2, watch out for Teleport baits. Crouching makes him whiff it. Then he’s yours to punish.

Some Akuma players still use the Demon Flip Palm whiff to Ragin Demon (Super/Ultra Versions). There are also a few Kara versions of his, s and c. Round House, c.MK, c.HP, and the most popular :r: MP. Also watch out for his Light Go-Hadouken to Raging Demon, As far as I know that gimmick is still in the game. Akuma should be poked 2 death while using short yet damaging combo’s nothing 2 fancy or you’ll get dragon punched out mid combo is if your execution isn’t flawless. You should NEVER chase him get a point lead the stand your ground absorbing fireballs. until you can setup ultra crane 2. While poking and anti airing him 24/7 with cr. fierce punch & kick.

Contributors: Tha Messiah[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
[COLOR=green]Dash Punch/Running Straight: On Block - All but Light and EX can be reversed by Mantis [media=youtube]PQ7NnEkj1QY"]Super](, Mantis Ultra 1 is possible vs Medium and Hard but timing is tight. (Light only gives Gen +2 Frame Advantage, and EX only gives Gen +3 both do not give Gen enough time to get his Mantis Super(1+6 Frames) off.) On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=green]Dashing Uppercut/Running Upper: On Block - the only one that can be punished by Mantis [media=youtube]KNEU-i9keMw"]Super]( is HK as it gives Gen +7 but it must be done super fast. On Whiff (You are ducking) - Mantis Super (Timing can be tight). On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=green]Dashing Low/Running Low Straight: On Block - All but EX can be reversed by Mantis [media=youtube]X6izbZczgvE"]Super]( (Light gives Gen +8, Medium gives Gen +9, Hard gives Gen +11, EX is only +3). On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=green]Dashing Overhead Punch/Running Swing Blow: On Block - Only Medium and Hard can be reversed by Mantis [media=youtube]NjW91MFkIc8"]Super](, Mantis Ultra 1 is possible vs Medium and Hard. (Light Gen has +5 Frames, Medium +7, Hard +8, EX +5). On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=green]Dashing Low Uppercut/Running Low Smash: On Block - Only Medium and Hard can be reversed by Mantis [media=youtube]gYJP3LF3ebU"]Super]( Hard can be punished by Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 (Timing is a bit tight for the Ultra 1). On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super. ([Fail if you do it too late[/COLOR[/media])

[COLOR=green]Buffalo Headbutt: On Block - Mantis [media=youtube]RrmQ1xEKyS0"]Ultra 1]( & 2 (Timing is tight for Ultra 1 & 2 if it’s a light HB.) / Super. On Whiff - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 (Timing is tight for Ultra 1 & 2 if it’s a light HB.) / Super, Crane Ultra1 / Super (Pretty much has to be psychic, may only be practical when stuck in corner and are desperate.) / Crane [Ultra 2[/COLOR[/media] (Possible bait by jumping back).

[COLOR=green]Turn Punch: On Reaction - Mantis [media=youtube]qhBN5gyT8V4"]Ultra 1]( & 2 / [Super.[/COLOR[/media] (If done too soon it will trade.)

[COLOR=green]Crazy Buffalo/Super: On Block - Mantis [media=youtube]wiVyHeopcZU"]Ultra 1]( & 2 / Super. On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

[COLOR=green]Violent Buffalo/Ultra1: On Block - Mantis [media=youtube]bjvLmzCUPew"]Ultra 1]( & 2 / Super. On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / [Super[/COLOR[/media].

A pretty hard matchup for Gen. I use Oga a lot in this matchup actually because it f&#ks up his charge and the only thing you have to worry about is his autp-correct Headbutt. Which can be avoided by feinting the Oga or doing a ceiling angle kick. Good Boxers will definately try to keep the pressure on you at all times and that can be very annoying. His jab is godlike and one of his best combos (that could lead into ultra if he has it) starts with a jab so don’t get too cheeky and and drop your guard. Once he starts noticing you block their Jabs/close combos a good Boxer will mix things up by jabbing a few times (usually 2) and throw, so be prepared for that. The best thing to do against Boxer is definately doing a lot of (safe) cross-ups like mantis j.MK > Hands or something similar that doesn’t get you punished on block. By far the most important thing to remember is to never get trapped in a corner. Boxers air normals are really good so jumping out will be hard, not to mention he can Headbutt > Ultra. When you’re in a corner the best thing to do is wait untill he makes a mistake (like whiffing a headbutt or a bad spaced dash punch) and punish accordingly. Learn to throw on reaction. A lot of his dash punches can be thrown. Also using c.MK to break up his attacks can be useful as you can link into Hands. Also if you play against a Rog that uses the Turn Punch or full screen Dash Punches (Because you may not have Super or Ultra to punish them) you can sweep them if they aren’t EX and you time it right. Something else that should be noted is that Gen’s Crane c.HK misses a lot vs Balrog’s jump-in. The best thing to use is Mantis c.Fierce. Balrog’s hitbox is very small.

Needs update
Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
[color=green]Close s.HP: On Block - Mantis Super.

Close/Far s.HK: On Block - Mantis Super.

Far s.MK: On Block - Mantis Super.

c.HP: On Block - Mantis Super.

Rolling Attack/Beast Roll : On Block - means a free Mantis [media=youtube]jc0H7QLXtyA"]Ultra1]( / Super, Crane Super (Timing can be tight).On Hit - is free Mantis Super. On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super, Crane [URL=“”]Super[/COLOR[/media]

[COLOR=green]Slide: Can be punished with Mantis Ultra1/Super.

Ultra 1: Can be punished on block by Mantis Ultra1 (Cannot hit Ultra 2)/Super, Crane Ultra1&2/Super. On reaction you can hit him with Mantis Ultra1/2/Super must be performed pointblank when he drops to the ground to roll at you. If he is holding PPP to keep the ball stead you can punish that but there is the chance you trade. You can also hit him with Crane Ultra1/Super when he first jumps into the air, as long as you have the distance right it grabs him.

Electricity: Mantis jab super will beat electricity, as long as you don’t do it too far away. Was performed in a match from I think around range and it just blew right through it. Jab super has totally invincible startup, including the first active frame.
Needs updating

Blanka is a character that very much relies on mindgames and shennanigans. A good Blanka will probably not use his roll a lot outside of a combo. Once you have ultra or super he basically can’t use any of his rolls (except EX backstap roll to feint). Just be on the offensive and don’t jump at all, he really doesn’t have anything to keep you away except his balls. Just keep walking up to him until you are close enough to combo, it might be boring but you don’t want to get too aggressive due to his trickery. Avoid using Oga too much (if at all, good blankas punish it easily with vertical roll or backstap roll), and only do a cross-up if you’re sure it will hit because things such as crane will eat electricity when blocked unless you backdash away. In my opinion the match comes down to steadily pushing him into the corner without getting impatient yourself. Once you have super/ultra you really are in control of the match. Advanced Blankas might pull of some interesting things to look out for though, such as: light roll into throw at the start of a match, and using a cross-up ultra on wake-up, or a normal attack into a hop to the opposite side of you. Electricity can be punished by Mantis c.MK. Do not Ultra vs his Electricity. They all get beat by it, even Gen’s Crane Ultra 2. Focusing is one of the best ways to deal with the rainbow ball, especially if they like trying to do ambiguous cross ups with it. His Balls will trade off-the-wall Oga kicks, but the Ceiling Dive Kick usually trades with up Ball and will beat Electricity unless he does EX, which you almost never see anyone use. His Horizontal Balls could be punished with Dash, Mk > Hands (Timing is tighter than Vanilla). However, you can still Super the Horizontal Ball on hit.

Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, Apricator[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Seismo/Ground Pound: A blocked regular seismo from midscreen can be punished with Mantis Super.

Burning Kicks: Can be countered with Crane Ultra1/Super unless it is a cross-up kick.
Needs updating

Similarly to Ibuki’s match-up, you should always be blocking low when not on the offensive due to her seismos. Most Vipers play very offensive, so keep in mind that she is a character that has to rely on momentum to do decent damage. Look out for any feints and stay grounded, Viper players usually want you to get jumpy and nervous so they can burn kick you or HP thunderknuckle (which might lead into an ultra if spacing allows it). So stay on the f&*king ground! What it comes down to is her making you things you shouldn’t do, so keep your calm because she can feint all day but as long as you are cautious and block low (her main BnB is into m.thunderknuckle, or any variation on that).
As for burning kicks, Gens Gekiro kick is wonderful. It will nearly beat out every burning kick unless you do it too late and trade (not a big deal). Watch out for cross up burning kicks though, those can surprise you and put you into a knockdown situation, very bad! It should also be noted that most of her big combo’s come from EX seismo. A good viper will try to trick you into attacking her (or attack herself) only to do EX seismo out of the blue, and since it has some invincibility on start-up your attack will most likely whiff and before you know it you’re in the air eating a burning kick and possibly an ultra.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, HNIC Mike[/details]



[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
-EX hooligan throw can be countered mantis super or ultra on reaction. Can also do crane super or ultra, though ultra needs to be done really fast.
-Blocked cannon spike (dp) can be countered with mantis super or ultra (all versions)
-Blocked spiral arrow (spacing dependent, she has to start it up relatively close to you otherwise she’ll recover too fast) countered with mantis super or ultra.

  • Spin knuckle can be countered on reaction with mantis super or ultra (all versions).

Cammy is a little wreckingball, and a wrecking ball need to swing close in order to do damage. Let her come to you. If she tries to get in with an obvious cannon strike (air version of cannon spike) you can beat it clean (depends on the timing, and spacing) or atleast trade by using crane Basically you have to keep her away and play a footsie game at midrange. If your anti-airing is on point (mantis s.hp, crane and you keep your guard by blocking low for random spiral arrows to get in on you, it should be fine. As for every Cammy’s favorite way to get in, EX hooligan throw, crane beats it (not sure, but I think other normals can beat it out too) or if you expect it crane j.hp beats it clean too for some good damage. Blockstrings like ( mk hands are useful as usual but make sure they’re airtight blockstrings since Cammy’s uppercut is godlike, cannot stress that enough.

Do not get cocky and try to much offensively because her cannon spike is very dangerous and can destroy any bad jump in and cross-up attempt with ease unless you safejump properly. Oga can be useful for feinting to bait out a uppercut from her but that is about it. Infact, don’t spend much time in the air at all, her uppercuts have great reach and you really don’t need to jump in on her if you have the life lead. Her options to get in are quite limited as mentioned before. Keep your cool and make sure your footsie game is on point, and this fight is fairly evenly matched in my opinion. If she does get in (knocks you down) don’t be stupid and panic into doing EX gekiro. Her ambiguous cannon strike cross-up might land her behind you meaning you’ll eat atleast 300 damage if it’s a good Cammy. Just block, block and block or backdash (don’t overuse that though! She can spiral arrow it). Try to reset the situation into a midscreen footsie battle as soon as possible.

**Contributors:**Warlike, TommyTwoTime77

Chun Li

[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Neutral Jump HK: Mantis countered with Mantis Super, you have to do it right when she starts coming down from her jump. Works from anywhere on the screen, adjust timing accordingly.
Whiffed Hozanshu(Overhead Kick): Can be punished with Mantis Super (Even her lk version, gotta be fast). Gens mantis Ultra(1) also works but not from full screen unless she does hk Hozanshu which is unlikely when playing a good Chun. I usually bait them into doing it, backdash and do the super.

Needs updating

Chun-Li’s pokes are buffed in Super compared to Vanilla. She can zone very well with her Fireball and pokes. Patients is key vs her. Crane Jumping HP can be helpful jumping in on Chun, as well Crane HK. Chun has a Air double punch that can setup a few things, including her Ultra 1 & 2. Practice your timing because Gen can stuff her jump double punch. Mantis HP works well. Also, bait her into jumping and punish with Crane c.HK or Gekiro. A lot of Chun players like to poke into Overhead Flip Kick. After the poke you can Gekiro or Focus Attack it. You can even Crane Super if you have meter. Getting in Chun’s face is one of the main things you have to do, because if you back off or lose spacing, you have to start with her zoning game all over again. Chun also has a really good neutral jump HK with can be punished by HK or EX easily. Also watch out for jump ins on Chun’s wakeup. If she has meter EX Bird Kick might come up as it’s a good AA. Safe jump this or bait by using Oga Angled Ceiling Dive or Feint.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Cody is a pretty strong character but relies heavily on pokes to start his bnb combo (into criminal uppercut). He also has alot of p[roblems on wakeup because he does not have a good anti air in that situation. His criminal uppercut can be punished on block with mantis or mashing out hp hands. If you’re quick enough you can even do mk hands. Basically you need to be in his face all the time and try to score a knockdown as soon as possible. After you knock him down you can jump in for free. It is recommended that you cross him up on wakeup. Crane mindgames work wonders against Cody on knockdown and if he gets impatient and tries to do a EX zonk knuckle (requires him to charge punch button) and you feel he will do it on wakeup just bait it and punish accordingly. Oga is not really commended because he can do a Ruffian kick and possibly fadc into ultra. Although feint Oga might be useful to bait that.

Things to watch out for is his really fast EX Ruffian kick, infact watch out for his Ruffian kick altogether because he can FADC into ultra with it. His other ultra can be combo’d into from throwing a Bad Stone at the right distance and immidately doing the ultra. Furthermore he also has a (pretty strong) overhead. Luckily it is even slower than Gen’s overhead so you should see it coming. They mainly use it on wakeup anyway.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Strategy:Needs update[/details]

Dee Jay

[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Dee Jay is some what like Guile. His Air Slasher (FB) has really good recovery time. One tactic a lot of DJ players use, is FB, Crouch HK. It slides right where you could land and hit you. Some thing similar to Rose’s MK Slide. DJ may try to zone you out or rush you down with cross-ups, which is called Ghetto Vortex. He has a pretty floaty jump in and can be punished by Gekiro. Crane c.HK can be tricky so use it carefully. Back dash is a bad idea vs DJ. His Dread Kicks will catch you and I believe can knock you down. When DJ has Meter his Jackknife Maximum/Up Kicks is a great AA. It has amazing vertical trajectory and even when you think you can jump over him, it most likely will hit you. But like Guile crossing him up can benefit Gen, if DJ doesn’t have meter. Safe jumping, Oga Feinting can help but I wouldn’t recommend abusing it.


Contributors: Tha Messiah


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Jump/Jump Back Fierce: Crane Super (use HK version for the best range).Even when his limbs are all the way out the super will hit. On block Mantis Ultra1/Super
Needs updating

Dhalsim’s main game will be to keep you out. He will us a mix up of his Fireballs and limbs. Focus Attack can be your friend if used in the right situation (This is best vs his limbs, against his FB isn’t a good idea since he can throw his limbs out really fast). If Sim Teleports use Crane c.HK or Mantis s.Jab(you can dash under for cross under) both knock him out of his Teleport. Watch for his height though, that will determine the timing. Oga can be your friend, using the Ceiling Dive Angle Kick can work wonders vs Sim. It’s also good for getting on top of him if you know he’s going to throw his Ultra 1 (Some times you can just tell he’s going to use it). Using Tick Throws are a great way for mix-ups and to stay in close to him. If you can figure out his pattern with his limbs you can use Gekiro to punish on reaction.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, nubbb, HNIC Mike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
EX Machine Gun Blow: On Block - Mantis Super.

You can also punish EX Machine Gun Blow with Mantis s.MP and whatever else you wanna combo into after that, I usually do Mantis s.MP, s.MK, Hands. And Crane c.MP, HP Roll. You have to be careful with those though cause a lot of dudleys like to mash out ultra or uppercut after because its easy to mess up the timing on punishing with mp. Lot’s of dudleys seem to think they can jump all day because of their godlike jumpin attack with that elbow. However, Gen’s AA is more godlike and I’ve found crane pretty much closes that door for them. Depends on the distance but crane seems to be at the best position where they like to jump at. Other than that, just zone em out, I like to still use mk to hands a lot in this matchup cause he really cant do much to get in, and if he starts doing his standing hp I just start focusing, or throwing him when he dashes in. He can be difficult to deal with if he does get in, just watch for overheads and block, don’t try and mash anything out and just be patient when he does get in, I’d also suggest avoiding to attempt to tech throws, eat one or two if you have to, but he has a lot of good ways to setup counterhits, so eating a throw is much better than eating a giant combo into ultra.

Contributors: Coldviper18


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Headbutt: On Reaction - Mantis Ultra1 (tested with HP and EX version). On Block - LP Headbutt (HP Super, needs to block standing). MP Headbutt (HP Super, not sure about Ultra). HP Headbutt (HP Super/Mantis U1). EX Headbutt (MEH).
Buttslams: Can be countered full screen with Crane Ultra when done at the apex of his buttslam.
Neutral Jump Fierce: Can be countered with Mantis Super (In order for it to hit do the Super right when he reaches the apex of his jump and does the fierce attack. Works from nearly anywhere on the screen except when both players are totally on the edge.)
Needs updating

You can stuff headbutt with any Gekiro and Crane Ultra 1 / Super on reaction. aswell as any other normal (like c.lp or crane etc - on full screen quite easy) also: oga beat’s headbutt CLEAN.
depending on the range mantis super will trade (hp nearly all the time since it has no invincible frames). lp / mp can beat it if used within the first frames.
buttslams can be beaten by and hk, mk and ex gekrio when he’s on his way down.

matchup strategy tipp: honda is vulnerable against crossups. this not only gives a chance to apply damage, but also takes his backwards charge. he still has down charge for buttslams, but they are beat clean as crossup or you’ll just land behind him while he’s going towards the ceilling.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, street11.

El Fuerte

[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Flying Gaga Buster: After Startup, the Jyakoha (Crane Super) and/or Ryukoha (Crane U1) will grab El Fuerte out of the air.

Fighting against El Fuerte is a nervous guessing game, and no matter how well-informed you are about his Strategy, fighting against him is always a game of luck no matter how Skilled you are. El Fuerte has a Special Move called the Habanero Dash, and this Move has a Total of 10 Variation Special Moves, combining both his Normal Habanero Dash, and Habanero Back Dask. The Habanero Dash has 6 Variation Special Moves, the Sudden Stop (El Fuerte comes to a halt), Tostada Press (El Fuerte jumps on top of you, or can crossover with it), Fajita Buster (Has the same attack animation as the Tostada Press, but El Fuerte lands with an Air Command Grab instead), Back Step (El Fuerte halts then dashes back), Gordita Sobat (El Fuerte jumps and does a kick to the Midsection), and Calamari Slide (El Fuerte slides on the ground to trip the Opponent). The Habanero Back Dash has 4 Variation Special moves, the Sudden Stop, Tostada Press (after running back, El Fuerte will run foward and jump on top of you or crossover with it), Propeller Tortilla (aftering running back, El Fuerte will backflip towards you to do a an Air Command Throw), Picadillo Jump (after running back, El Fuerte will jump towards the wall, and he can also jump off it towards you). An El Fuerte player is always determined to get the Opponent on the ground, and with Gen and his extremely limited Defense, he can be easily verwhelmed with El Fuerte’s Habanero Mindgames. Most of the time, Gen is limited to only using his Back Dash, or his EX Gekiro to avoid/counter El Fuerte’s Habanero Mindgame, and no matter how well you anticipate it, you’re always at a bigger risk of getting hit then the El Fuerte player is. If you’re able to get passed his Habanero Mindgames, it becomes much easier, and Gen can be somewhat aggressive against El Fuerte. El Fuerte can also jump off walls and can attack you from even the opposite side of the screen, and he has an Normal Throw in the air as well, so exercise caution with these. El Fuerte has an Anti-air called the Guacamole Leg Throw, which is an Air Command Throw and has good range as well, so be careful when jumping directly on top of him. El Gen is mostly safe when doing a Crossover on El Fuerte, but when El Fuerte has the El Fuerte Ultra Spark U2 chosen, it’s unsafe to crossover on him since the Move is unblockable, and El Fuerte will auto-switch to the other side as well. The main idea when Fighting against El Fuerte, is to not let him knock you down because once he does he has all the advantages over you, and it can be extremely difficult to defend yourself against him and/or to avoid getting hit. Gen can be somewhat aggressive against El Fuerte, but be careful of his Anti-air Command Throw, as well as his El Fuerte Ultra Spark U2.

Contributors: DanteValmont


Ask a Mod to sticky it,and he will if its sticky material.


maybe it’s a good idea to mark the ones who are filled with a * or a color. (later on, when most are donem switch the mark to those who needs to be feeded)

and maybe it would be a good idea to review all existing stickies. some are outdated and could be destickied (does that word exist? lol).

candidates for removal of sticky: (Outdated) (Outdated) (Outdated²) (Outdated + can be replaced with this thread) (Still valid, but needs updates, merge with framedata and hitbox is likely - i think i’ll make that in the near future)

so in the end all stickys can be replaced / removed.
these thread should be stickied: (this one) (the subtopics are good, but not all are sticky worthy itself, can be updated with other good topics in the future) (hope we’ll update it also. there has yet to find combos to be added)

Will help to have a clean, neat forum, where every valid info can be found easily.


I already PM’ed a mod on stickying this thread and the Gen list/guide compilation thread, so hopefully that will pass.

I also vouch for the removal of some stickies (the ones zUkUu listed), we should PM a mod about that aswell.


Fei Long

[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:

  • Blocked Rekka, only 2nd or 3rd hit most lenient with finished (3 hits) rekka can be punished with mantis super.

  • HK chickenwing can be punished by mantis or crane super in it’s animation. The EX version can be punished with mantis super and ultra on block and ofcourse also during its animation with the two supers. Mantis ultra not recommended as it might collide with the hit of the chickenwing depending on the timing.

-Blocked flamekick (all versions) can be punished with mantis super or ultra, and also with both crane super and ultra (not recommended due to stricter timing). A wfihhed flamekick (all versions) can be easily punished with mantis super or ultra even when not very close by.

Strategy:-mantis crouch fierce works fine for AA.
-when you play footsies with him, you want to stick to low foward into hands. if you did standing mk he could get a trade or outright beat you with rekkas
-cancelling into hands destroys feis focus game
-blocked rekka x2 is free mk hands no matter his spacing
-mantis stand fierce destroys chicken wings. dont stand there and block these. they have a terrible hitbox after the initial startup kick, so hit a button and you win. you can do more, but stand fierce will work fine without much timing/execution
-no sweeps. they get punnished by rekkas and take you to the corner
-if he only does one rekka it will usually be safe unless you are at point blank range

Contributors: HNIC Mike, Warlike [/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Oga Close Kick/Far Kick/Falling Kick: If blocked, the Zan’ei (Mantis Super) and Shitenketsu (Mantis Ultra 2) are guaranteed free Super/Ultras.

Shitenketsu (Mantis Ultra 2): The Zetsuei (Mantis Ultra 1) will beat the Shitenketsu during the startup and it doesn’t matter how far or how close you are.

Gekiro/Waterfall Kick: If blocked, The Zan’ei/Jyakoha/Zetsuei/Ryukoha/Shitenketsu are guaranteed Supers/Ultras.

A Mirror Match can be very confusing and difficult even if you know your Fighter as well as or better then the Opponent does. The Best Strategy to use in a Gen Mirror Match is to make yourself aware of the Potential that Gen has, both as an aggressive fighter and defensive fighter as well. Gen’s bad wakeup as well as his lack of Priority and Recovery, is Legendary. When fighting against an Opponent who rushes down on him and does mixups, Gen has to constantly block in place which can leave him extremely vulnerable. Gen (Like Dhalsim), was made to be a Distance Fighter. Gen heavily relys on Zoning to fight safely, and if the Opponent gets too close, he can be easily overwhelmed. The Best way to fight against Gen in a Mirror Match, is to keep your Distance from him to poke and to only come close when it’s safe and to fight aggressively.

Contributors: DanteValmont


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Kongoshin(Counter Special Move): The Zan’ei/Zetsuei/Shitenketsu/Teiga will beat both Punch/Kick Kongoshins’, but the Zetsuei is has a slow startup while the Kongoshins’ Recovery is fast, so it’s not recommended to use the Zetsuei.

Shin Shoryuken: A few Frames after the startup of the Shin Shoryuken, the Jyakoha has priority, although the timing has to be very precise. The Ryukoha is very safe to use during the startup of the Shin Shoryuken. The Ryukoha can also be used a few frames after the startup of the Shin Shoryuken, but because of the Ryukoha’s slow startup, there is a decent possibility that it can miss.

Against Gouken, the biggest problem you’ll have is getting past his Gohadokens’. Depending on which Punch is used, the Gohadoken will travel at a different height, and it can very difficult to avoid getting hit by them because during the Skill Animations’ for the 3 different Gohadokens’, there is no clear distinction between them indicating which Gohadoken is about to be used. Getting hit by a Gohadoken can be very costly, because not only is it difficult to avoid at times, but Gouken can also use the Senkugoshoha (Uppercut Dash) to combo into it from a distance, resulting in major damage. One Strategy that can be used to avoid the Gohadoken, is to use the Crane Crouching MK in which Gen will duck down in place, and dodge it. Another Strategy, is to use the Focus Attack, and to dash in after the Focus absorbs the Gohadoken, but be careful, because when the Gohadoken is charged long enough, it’ll do 2 hits instead of 1, resulting in breaking the Focus Attack completely. Once you’re past the Gohadokens’ however, it becomes much easier to fight Gouken. Gouken’s Special Moves such as the Senkugoshoha (Uppercut Dash) and the Tatsumaki Gorasen (Hurricane Kick) have slow startups, and if blocked or missed, Gouken is very vulnerable. When using Physical Normal/Special Moves, Gouken can use the Kongoshin (Counter Move), very powerful move that will Counter all of Gen’s Normal Moves, as well as almost all of his Special moves too if used successfully. The Oga Close/Far/Falling Kicks has Armor Break Properties, so if used against the Kongoshin, it’ll knock him out of it. The Basic Strategy against Gouken, is to weave through his Projectiles, and once you’re passed them, fighting against him is much easier. Most of his Special Moves are slow at startup and recovery, so if blocked or missed, Gouken is very vulnerable. Gen can be somewhat aggressive against Gouken when upclose, but it can be risky with a Gouken User who can execute the Kongoshin with decent timing.

Contributors: DanteValmont


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Flashkick: On Block - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super, Crane Super.

Sonic Hurricane: On Reaction - Can be countered by mantis super during Guiles animation if you’re not too far away. Due to the LP version of Gens mantis super having invincibility frames on startup you can just go through his startup! So always use the lp version, and you have to be close to him (About 1 block tile in training mode).

Needs updating

A good Guile can be horrifying for Gen. His sonic boom will keep you at bay and jumping over them usually means getting air thrown or a flashkick. So getting in can be a bit of a problem. It is not recommended to use Oga because good Guile’s will either flashkick you out of them of airthrow before you can actually get to a wall.
Feint Oga is something that can help as a mindgame, and if he does a flashkick you might have a ticket inside if you’re quick enough. If you feel inclined to jump over a sonic boom and think he’s going to airthorw you, you might be able to stuff it with mantis j.hp or crane j.hp.

Once you’re in, gens cross-ups come in real handy here. Guile does not have any auto-correct specials. So try mix that bitch up. When used correctly crane can stuff (or sometimes trade) his flashkicks. Pressure is the key as Guile cannot handle pressure all that well. However the same goes for Gen, so don’t get caught in a corner or something. Guile’s faster charge times make sure that he can keep you in the corner with sonic boom, and if you jump you know what happens. Also, good players will attempt to sonic boom>walk behind it> crouching attack/backspin fist. So be aware of that and don’t absorb his sonic boom as it means free damage for him. This is a matchup that really shows how good your footsies are, because you will need to know those. If you don’t check the link further down this topic.
Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

The following Normals/Specials can stuff or trade with his Flying Elbow Drop Gekiro Kicks. Crane s.HP, c.HK and s.HK. Mantis s.HP. Focus Attack. Neutral Jumping with any normal is possible but you run the risk of being thrown if you do it wrong. Also Mantis c.HK is possible if it’s a feint Flying Elbow Drop(Meaning they only do the Light version to bait you.) A great Guy player will use a lot of feints to try and bait things out. His attacks won’t be so obvious sometimes. Try to see if he has a pattern. Using Focus attack vs most of his attacks are key. Guy’s vortex mainly consists of crossing you up and making you guess if he’s going to use the :d::mp: which will land in front of you, or :mk: which will probably cross you up. Using Focus Attack usually helps against this setup. If you get knocked down he might try to use the Elbow Flip into Throw. Do not jump, stand there, or dash back. You will get thrown. Dash from the direction he came from. Gen’s pokes can really break up Guy’s run attack game.


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Oil Slide: Can be Mantis Ultra1/Super
Oil Up: Can be Mantis Ultra 1/Super (Depending on what version he uses he can be punished easily, light version you basically need to it at his first frame, so waiting until EX comes out is best) .Mantis U2 can be used if he does it up close (but no one does that)

Hakan is the most fairest fight for Gen, so if you’re equal and/or better in Skill then the Hakan player, there is a good chance you’ll win, but that doesn’t go without saying that Hakan has some things you need to watch out for. Hakan has more Priority in the air then Gen does, and Hakan can use his MP which will knock you to the ground, and Hakan can combo into it with the Oil Slide which does a lot of damage, so exercise caution when fighting Hakan in the Air. The Oil Slide can reach from one end of the screen to the other, and will knock the opponent down if they don’t block down, so always be prepared to block down. Hakan has a few Command Throws that he can use like the Oil Rocket and the Oil Dive. The Oil Rocket is a Command Throw that is done on the ground, but luckily the range is alot shorter, and it has about the same range as a Normal Throw. The Oil Dive is another Command Throw that is done on the ground, but this Command Throw has a lot of Range and it can even
grab you while you’re in the air. The Oil Dive however, can be avoided completely while crouching, so it’s safe to crouch and
poke from a distance to counter the Oil Dive. Unlike other fighters, Hakan is able to move during his Focus Attack when Oiled
Up, so be aware that he can move closer to try and land the Focus Attack, or move back and wait for an Opportunity to land the
Focus Attack when the Opponent jumps to him. Aside from Hakans’ advantages, he can be a very vulnerable fighter, and Gen can
be somewhat aggressive when fighting him. Hakan has a very slow jump, so he is highly vulnerable to Normal Anti-airs, like the
Mantis Crouching HP and/or the Crane Crouching HK. When being aggressive with Hakan, try and keep your distance at the
same time, because he has good Command Throws to use when you’re close.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Kunai/Dagger Toss: On Reaction - Can be punished by Mantis Ultra1/Super (Unless it’s thrown right infront of your feet. Just like Akuma’s Air Fire Ball)

Needs updating

Probably the most important thing to do is block low a lot of the time. Most Ibuki’s love the neckbreaker and she has many ways to combo into it, but she cannot do that when you are crouched. Her overhead is horrible and not comboable. I personally think the match-up is fine as long as you don’t get knocked down. Ibuki’s whole game revolves around getting a knockdown and starting her vortex. Her health is just as bad as Gens so being aggresssive and doing mix-ups is a good tactic. She has a Dragon Kick (Kazegiri) so jumping in may not be a good idea, try safe jumping.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike, nubbb[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Strategy:Needs update[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Ken is in some ways comparable to Ryu, but definately should be aproached differently. He is primarily an offensive character and this is reflected by his (similarly to Abel’s). It has an insane range and allows Ken to apply pressure from quite some distance while closing in at the same time. He needs to be close to you in order to do damage basically. The most commonly used tactic is getting in wtih a quick combo such as>hadouken followed by
If he decides to cross up for a big combo (i.e.>c.lp>>EX whirlkick>Repeat) make sure you block correctly. After you’ve blocked his crossup a good Ken will attempt to do either a tick throw (can be countered with Gekiro, backdash, or crouch tech option select), or shoryuken fadc (if he has meter) be prepared to block and tech his follwing throw (or if he’s smart he might srk again…) What is all comes down to though is the flow of the match. If you let him from the moment the match begins decide the flow (by which I mean: let him go on the offensive immidiatly) it will not end too well for Gen. But if you play solid footsies and don’t let him get in (I can’t stress it enough, look out for his godly!). Once you have him abit more cautious you could attempt to do some jump in combos and crossups as long as you keep in mind his DP does auto-correct. His recovery on hadoukens is slightly slower than that of Ryu’s so if he uses it without proper spacing you can jump in with crane j.hkx2 to start up a combo of choice (best is obviously>>hp roll 311 dmg).

However, when Ken has his Ultra1 jumping in becomes too risky unless you are certain it is a safe jump. Play your footsies right, and bait and punish his moves instead of trying to go on the offense yourself. The problem is most of Gens good combos start with a jumpin. Mix in some Oga feints and crossup Oga’s if you feel he will not expect it (he can punish it with his Ultra on block though…careful!). In conclusion: Ken relies heavily on pressure and his crossup game in order to do big damage. take the (semi) offense yourself at the start to prevent him from dictating the flow of the match. Another thing to note is that his air normals are not as good as Gen’s, so don’t be afraid to go air to air with him. A lot of Ken players use Air Tatsu as another form to get inside Gen. This is a very effective special. Using most of Gen’s Anti Airs get beat out. Most Ken’s will use the air tatsu like the Akuma vortex, they won’t use it from far away as Gen can Gekiro kick as a response. However, when Ken is close he will cross you up. The best thing to do is let wait until he’s on the other side and Mantis c.HP so it Auto Corrects to the side he went to. Or use Auto Correct Gekiro. I’ve found waiting until he lands and can’t hit you and try to use something like Mantis c.LK Ken will Shoryuken. So use these other to options. Go into Training, set Ken to use Air Tatsu HK or EX, because they like to use these as they are faster and allow for more hits.

Contributors: Warlike



[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Devil’s Reverse/Aerial Fist Dive: On Reaction - This is a free Mantis Ultra 1 across screen if you time it right. After he presses Punch for the second time to trigger his Fist Dive, when he’s about 1/4 to about 1/2 way to the top of the screen you can Ultra him.

Needs updating

Against Bison, you have to be very careful of his Normal Moves because they are fast, have good priority, and good range as well. Bison can be very aggressive against Gen with his Normal Moves, but Gen has a few Normals that have priority over some of Bison’s. Bison uses the S.HK as a Normal Anti-air, but Gen can use the Crane HP and it’s very likely to counter Bison’s S.HK, so jumping on Bison with the Crane HP is safe for the most part. When Bison jumps on Gen however, Gen can use either the Mantis C.HP or the Crane C.HK as Normal Anti-airs, and both of these have good priority and are very safe to use. Crossing-over on Bison is safe to do, but when he has EX Meter, be very cautious because Bison can do the EX Psycho Crusher which can auto-correct and hit Gen from underneath. When jumping in the air, Bison can use his Devil’s Reverse (Somersault Punch) and/or his Head Press (Head Stomp) and both of these moves allow Bison to travel from one end of the Screen to the other, so exercise caution when jumping in the air. Also, be aware of Bison’s Air MP (does 2 Hits), and if you get hit by either and/or both punches, you’ll fall to the ground without being
able to recover in the air, and it’ll leave you vulnerable to both of Bison’s Ultra Moves as well as some of his EX Special Moves. Gen can be somewhat aggressive when fighting against Bison, but be careful when Bison has EX Meter, his EX Special Moves which all have Invincibility Startup and/or have Good Priority Startup and deal good damage as well. When fighting against a Bison Player who is being aggressive with Normal Moves, play defensively and zone and poke, and try to not let him corner you because it can be very difficult to escape and get passed his Normal Moves.

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Dante Valmont[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:Needs updating

Strategy:Needs update[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Slide: Mantis Super.
Soul Throw: On Whiff, Mantis Ultra 1&2/Super, Crane Ultra1&2?/Super.
c.MP > Soul Spiral: Can be countered with mantis super on block. (It should be noted that this works on her lk mk and EX versions of the Soul Spiral, but not her hk version! But most Rose users use lk and mk as part of her BnB usually so it’s still viable.)
Needs updating

A fairly even matchup in my opinion. Rose players love to bait you into jumping over their fireballs so they can Soul Throw you out of your jump. So watch out and space yourself properly. When she has Ultra1 don’t ever jump over her fireballs because it’s a free ultra setup for Rose. And you know what, Rose players love to slide into throw so be ready to tech that crap or super it on block.
Oga can be useful but watch out with being predictable, as she can soul throw you out of a cross-up Oga if she’s fast enough. The best thing to do against rose is be agressive, once you’re in you’re in. Rose doesn’t really have a solid reversal or anything so don’t be scared to apply pressure. Make sure you watch her ultra meter though because if you jump and she has Ultra2 you get 2 shiny orbs in your face and possibly a soul throw or super afterwards.

Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Messiah Kick Disclaimer: There are so many variables that I decided to make this list.

Messiah Kick Light or Medium, Light Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super(Use MP Version of Super, LP too slow, and HP may trade.), Crane - Ultra 1 / Super. Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 1 &2 / Super.

Messiah Kick Light or Medium, Medium Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super. Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 2.

Messiah Kick Light or Medium, Hard Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super (For Ultra 1 and Super, so you don’t go under. Super more than Ultra. This is actually good so you can tell what move he’s following up with. For Ultra 2, you must delay so he doesn’t hit you.), Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 2 / Not sure if Mantis Ultra 1 and Super is possible because when I perform these, it looks like Rufus does a random kick that I’m not telling him to do. I’ve even made sure he was in block for like 7 seconds after he finished.

Messiah Kick Hard or EX, Light Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - No punish is available if he follows up with Light, If he doesn’t follow up at all you can punish with Mantis Super… Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super.

Messiah Kick Hard or EX, Medium Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super. Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 2 / Super Not sure if Mantis Ultra 1 is possible because when I perform these Rufus does a random kick that I’m not telling him to do. I’ve even made sure he was in block for like 7 seconds after he finished.

Messiah Kick Hard or EX, Hard Follow-up: Blocked Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2 / Super (For Ultra 1 and Super, so you don’t go under. Super more than Ultra. This is actually good so you can tell what move he’s following up with. For Ultra 2, you must delay so he doesn’t hit you.), Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Reaction vs Messiah - Mantis Ultra 1 & 2? / Super, Crane Ultra 1 / Super. Blocked Follow-up - Mantis Ultra 2 / Not sure if Mantis Ultra 1 and Super is possible because when I perform these, it looks like Rufus does a random kick that I’m not telling him to do. I’ve even made sure he was in block for like 7 seconds after he finished.

Big Bang Typhoon/Ultra 2: On Reaction- Crane Ultra 2 is possible if they try to use Ultra 2 as a Anti-Air. It is possible to trade. (DO NOT Mantis Ultra 1 or Super through it while it’s activated, even to use them as an escape out of the corner, you will get sucked in.)

?The only way this is possible is if he lands right in front of you aka whiff basically, and you hit it before he uses his folllow-up. Not very practical, but possible.
Needs updating

“How to deal with Rufus” Though it’s geared toward Guile, there is some helpful info [media=youtube]3K9cW2X4wpA"]Video[/color[/media]
Rufus = Pure rushdown. He’s definately not afraid of Gen since he has alot of health and deals more damage. His main way of getting inside is his Dive Kick. Dive Kick pressure should be dealt with similarly to Cammy’s Arrow Kick pressure: Backdash. Alternatively you can also do an interesting option select when you block his initial Dive Kick: LK + LP + KH. If he throw you will Tech it, if he does another Dive Kick your HK will beat him out of it.

Due to the difference in health Gen should stay grounded and never do an unsafe jump towards Rufus, his EX Snake Strike will destroy you. Or worse, his j.HK > Ultra1 will take away 50% of your health. On the bright side, he will come to you, which also means you can outpoke him. Rufus does have one good poke, which is the cr.HP, Focus Attack that to get in close. Your pokes are definately better and should be used to stuff his divekicks if he attempt to start a combo from one (which he will, his 1-frame combo is loved by Rufus players). Gekiro can also used to stuff his Dive kicks, but watch out as it might trade which is something you do not want (EX gekiro beats it clean though). If he scores a knockdown you’re in real danger. His Dive Kicks can also cross up which can lead to his Target Combo > Ultra1. If he attempts to Cross-up he will jump deeper than normally before starting his Dive Kick (visual cue). Therefore attempting any sort of Gekiro on wakeup, even EX, is not a good idea as the Cross-up Dive Kick will land behind you. Using Focus Attack is a good way to get away from Dive Kicks. If you think it’s going to Cross you up, dash under him. If you do not use Roll or Wall Dive after Crane cr.MP Rufus players look for that opportunity to punish. (even on hit)
Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
[COLOR=green]Hadouken/Fireball: On reaction, Mantis Super. (* Invincibility Light Punch 1~11 Shortest Distance / Medium Punch 1~8 Medium Distance best one to use / Hard Punch 1~5 Longest Distance.*) Depending on what FB he throws will depend on the distance you are away from him. Example: Super through a light FB you would have to be really close to him if you were almost full screen even though you travel through the FB he has time to recover and block or punish.
Tatsumaki/Hurricane Kick: On Reaction vs all versions, Mantis Ultra1/Super (If he travels behind you, you should have enough time to Super), Crane Ultra1/Super. On Block, timing is very strict depending on what version and how many hits you block will determine if you can use Mantis Super. (Not sure if this is 100% accurate) Example: If he uses the HK version and you only have to block one hit you can punish with Super, However if he uses the HK again and you have to block all three hits he can block. (Not sure if this is 100% accurate)
Shoryuken/Dragon Punch: On Block Mantis Ultra1&2/Super, Crane Ultra 1&2(Depending on what SRK he throws)/Super
Metsu Hadouken/Ultra 1: On Block Mantis Ultra1/Super, Crane Ultra2. If they throw it out at random and you can jump over it, same moves apply.

Will Update later

Gen really has to be patient, patient, patient in this match-up. Neutral jumping over Fireballs, Crane c.MK under them, or crouch blocking is what he needs to do. Oga isn’t that effective unless you are psychic. Most Ryu’s will throw Light Hadouken as it is safer. Practice spacing in Training. Set Ryu to throw a Light FB then SRK right away. Then practice in both stances, using all jump in tools. Get to know when it’s safe to jump in on him. Focus Attacking Fireballs is also another good way to get past Fireballs. EX Roll works as well. Ryu has pretty decent footsie game;however, getting caught in a rhythm can give him the option of SRK, FADC, Ultra; so be careful. Once you are in get in their face. Try not to Oga Feint or jump back, stay close, you’ve worked so hard to get in on Ryu, don’t back off. Use a lot of crouch blocking and staying in Crane can really help. Learn to jump between the two styles so you can poke or AA. Once you get a knock down get into sweep distance. Let him make a move, don’t try to hit him out of his wake up animation. You can do that with an Overhead later in the round to throw them off but really get in their face. Basically you have to play like Bison but have to play safer. Just keep pressuring him. After a knock down vs Shotos Crane is your friend. You have c.HK for AA, poke roll to punish srks, Overhead, and potential cross up. These are the better tools IMO.

Contributors: Tha Messiah[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Tiger shot: Up close can be Mantis Super’d on reaction.
Whiffed/Blocked Tiger Uppercut: Mantis Ultra1&2/Super, Crane Ultra1&2/Super (Crane U2 can be used if you can Tiger Knee it, also if you bait by jumping back it can be used on the whiffed Tiger UC)
Needs updating

Strategy:Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
-Whiffed EX shunpukyaku (only whiffed, not blocked) can be punished with mantis U1 and super on reaction (the first part is airborne, can also use crane super, tight timing). MK and HK versions can both be punished by mantis super on block (easy to identify if it is MK or HK, they both do 2 hits, LK only 1).
-EX Sakura Otoshi can countered on reaction by mantis U1 and super aswell as crane U1 and super. Very handy if you read your opponent well and you just know she will do it to get in.
-All versions of her shoryuken can be punished on block (or whiff I suppose) by mantis ultra and super.


Contributors: Warlike[/details]


after i recive my recording stuff i want to start a huge “Tutorial” Video Project. (I’ve done so for another game aswell). this time for ssf4 / gen. for that project any help is appreciated. i want to do various videos. for instance: basic gen gameplay. showing his moves and properties as well his BnBs and ultra setups. no fancy combo stuff, tho. everything practicable. for the bigger part i thought of making “How To vs XXX” character specific guides -one for every matchup-. showing character specific things and unique stuff. for that very reason, I hope we’ll feed this thread quickly. I will base the most on it and my own experience. (featuring such stuff u just suggested, like showing that u can punish blanka balls with ultra / super, super vs air hado etc)

I’m quite into video editing, but no expert gen. theoretically maybe good, but i lack pro execution and practice in the tense of a fight. but it’s enough to show theoreticall how to do things. dunno if i should voice it over tho. since i’m no mother tongue you will hear an accent. need someone who correct my sentences aswell. or i’ll stick to writing subtitles.

project will start in a few weeks, hope i’ll have some ppl in my icq / skype by then who are willing to help :slight_smile:

sorry for offtopic ^^



[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Hyakuretsukyaku/Lightning Kicks: On Block - All Versions can be punished with both Mantis Ultra 1 / Super.

Wall Jump: On Reaction - Mantis Ultra 1 / Super.

Needs updating

Lets get a few things straight: Seth has horrible stamina, and his attacks don’t do alot of damage in general unless he sets up a big combo/reset. Seth can basically choose two styles of play at any given time: zoning (with his dhalsimlike j.hp and sonic booms) or rushdown and mixup games.
Lets deal with the zoning Seth first. His jumpback hp is a solid tool but can be stuffed by (for example) s.hp. Remember: trading is in your favor due to his crap stamina. Do not focus attack dash his sonic booms though, as his s.hp (dhalsim arms) with hit you, meaning you take a chunk of damage. Once you’re in immidiatly put the pressure on, even when Seth blocks everything. Crossups are highly recommended as he does not have a solid ‘get the hell off of me’ move (his srk does not stuff your crossups). Seths stunresistance is pretty bad aswell meaning you might even get a stun (eventhough gens deals crap stun) if you dominate. A few decent combos and the round should be yours.
However, a really good Seth will probably take the offensive right at the start of the match, and this can be ver dangerous if you are unfamiliar with this matchup. Seth can cross you up aswell with his, which can lead into c.hp and launches you into the air for either lightning kicks or headstomps. Seths headstomps are actually a good Seth players favorite tool. It allows him to stomp you 3x followed by a a diagonal divekick that resets you. After the divekick he might do a crossunder to continue his combo (which will stun you very quickly…) or do an SPD to mix things up as you land. The best way to deal with this honestly is Gen’s Gekiro kick, specifically his EX Gekiro. Another thing to take note of on an offensive Seth is his Tandem Engine (the move that sucks you towards him). If you does a blockstring he might attempt to suck you back to him so don’t let your guard down! If you keep blocking and he sucks you in, you will retain in your blocked state, and vice versa. Tandem Engine cannot actually suck you in while you’'re still in blockstun, so if he gets preditable (does it after blockstrings everytime iirc) you can just jump in for a juicy combo.
Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Condor Dive: Upon almost landing and/or impact, can be punished with the Zan’ei. If at a distance before landing, can be punished with the Jyakoha.

Condor Spire: Is punishable after startup and/or blocked with Zan’ei. The Jyakoha can work if the Condor Spire is used within range, but the Zan’ei is more recommended.

With T.Hawk’s large size and hitbox, it’s not recommended to use the Oga to perform a Close Kick on him, because the Close Kick will hit high on a Big and Tall fighter like T.Hawk which leaves alot of time for T.Hawk to react and punish Gen. Gen is safe when doing the Crossover (Mantis MK/Crane MK) on T.Hawk, and just like the Oga-if you hit him high it can leave you vulnerable to his Mexican Typhoon, so make sure to hit T.Hawk relatively low with a Crossover to avoid his Command Throw. A T.Hawk player will usually use the Condor Dive to avoid projectiles and/or trick the Opponent into falling for his Mexican Typhoon, and even though the normal Gekiro lacks Invincibility Startup and Priority, it’s very effective and safe to use against T.Hawk to counter his Condor Dive. With T.Hawk, you basically have to fight him while keeping your distance and to only come close to when he’s open for a Crossover. T.Hawk is very powerful, and has long-ranged Normals that are fast, so only come close to poke or when safe. Gen can’t afford to take too many hits from a fighter like him. Maintain your zoning, poke when within range, and crossover when the opportunity arises.

Contributors: DanteValmont


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
Flying Barcelona Attack/Wall Dive: On Reaction - Can be intercepted by Crane Super and Ultra1 (Watch out for feints though!).
Needs updating

A pretty even match-up. The key to this matchup is getting the momentum to swing to your side. As such, being a agressive is recommended. Vega has no solid reversal, the closest thing he has is his Scarlet Terror/Flipkick. Watch out for his pokes though as he has a far greater reach than you have with his claw, and he can do a lp > EX FBA > Izuna Drop if you’re not careful. The best situation is to push him into the corner. Once you have him there, he really can’t do much about it unless you get too confident and eat a Scarlet Terror or worse, his Ultra. It’s worth noting that his Ultra1 can punish jump-ins aswell, so look out with jumping if he has Ultra stocked. If a good Vega scores a knockdown he might attempt to start his ‘Izuna Drop Vortex’. Which basically means he will keep on Izuna dropping you by grabbing you left and right, which will knock you down over and over. Luckily Gen can espace it relatively easy with his EX Gekiro. Another common thing that Vega player tend to do is df.MK which allows them to Jab Kara Throw. To sum it all up: be very aggressive and don’t give him space to breathe. But watch out for his ultra, do not get overconfident… Crane c.HK is almost perfect vs Barcelona Attack (Wall Dive). The timing isn’t really strict you’d have to be really bad if you don’t hit him. But if he has super amazing timing, you can be grabbed if you time it too soon. Just practice in training mode.

Needs update
Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike


[details=Spoiler]Guaranteed Super/Ultras:
PPP Lariat (long version): Mantis Ultra(1) him for free. Super can work but sometimes gets beaten out by Lariat. Very timing dependent and possibly not worth it.
Needs updating

Strategy:Needs update

Contributors: Tha Messiah, Warlike[/details]


Well i plan to include stuff like specific punishes etc but not limit it to those. It should cover the whole matchup with examples and maybe a good replay.


What I’m saying is you do the Match up strategies and I’ll do the Punishes. That way we get it done faster and you aren’t the only one doing the work? What you can do is one large video for vs each character and I’ll do small ones next to each Punishable instances.


Mad Props to Warlike for helping me out so far. Cheers bud.


No problem, tomorrow is the last day of final exams and then it’s clear sailing for me. So I will be helping out a lot more probably. I actually enjoy searching for new matchup related stuff.


When I get a chance here. I’m going to run through from Abel to Gief every one of their moves and post what is safe for Reversal/Counter for Ultra/Super.


First video up! More to come. Adon Jaguar Tooth vs Gen’s Mantis Super. Basic I know but this should help anyone with problems. Hope you guys like.


Does anyone know how to handle Rufus dive kick spamming other than blocking high and Focus Attacking out? The only time I can do anything vs it is if he starts at the top of his arc. LK Gekiro beats it. I’m almost compelled to start spamming lk Gekiro while he’s just going over and over. But one thing I’ve noticed is, his dive kick crosses up a lot. It’s super annoying. It was what 4-6 in Rufus’s favor to begin with. Any insight?


I handle Rufus divekick pressure the same way I handle Cammy’s: I just backdash as soon as I block his first one. It really is annoying as hell but mashing Gekiro can be dangerous and isn’t very reliable. Maybe EX gekiro beats it out clean? Not sure don’t play many rufus matchups…

Anyway, I actually wanted to post a link to the footsies handbook from Gen relies pretty heavily on footsies in my opinion and many matchups require footsies in order to create oppertunity etc. Nothing new for veterans, nontheless very useful for others to 1up their game.


I stole this crouch tech option from Yeb I believe.

So after Rufus gets that initial dive kick on you, he has some options. Re-dive, throw, ex-messiah (probably more but those are most common I think).

Yeb’s crouch tech (from my point of view) deals with re-dive and throw. After the first dive, in crane I hit, So if he tries to throw, I tech the throw. If he tries to re-dive, comes out and beats it.

I wouldn’t suggest spamming this unless you feel the throw or re-dive coming. It’s a bummer when this whiffs or hits Rufus while he’s still on the ground because of the negative frames on hit and block.

I’m sure Yeb can explain this more, this is just what I make of it from when I saw some video of him doing it.


can you explain something else to me please AT. Is Gen like Gouken where you can’t crouch or back crouch, LP, LK to tech throws? aka Option select. I get thrown like mad compared to when I play as Akuma and Rose. Am I just that bad or does Gen not have this OS? I know he has the Crane j.MK back LK LP

Thanks bud.