SSF4 Guile Match-up Thread: Typhoon < Sonic Boom < Vortex

guile

#1

Alright, here?s all of the consolidated info for all of Guile?s SSFIV match-ups. Please check the main page before asking a redundant question later in the thread.

Guile General Strategy

The point of having a matchup thread is so we know how to counter a character?s main gameplay style. However, at the same time, it should be noted what Guile?s playstyle is.
Guile plays most efficiently as a ?turtle? type character. At its most basic level, you should be throwing sonic booms while punishing your opponents? attempts at trying to get past them. Heavy focus should be placed on baiting your opponent to jump into your anti-air attacks, such as c.hp, s.mk, s.mp, lk flashkick, EX flashkick, air throw, or df.hk (GHK)? just to name a few.

Another way to play Guile is in a ?rush down? style, although this is considered to be much less effective of a way to play with Guile. This revolves around following a thrown sonic boom, sort of using it as a shield to force your opponent into a frame trap, throw setup, or safe jump in. This is less effective than turtling due to Guile?s relatively slow walk and dash speed, and lack of options when he does not have a charge.
Regardless of your playstyle, when you get to a more advanced level, footsies will also play a larger role in how you play people. Keeping people out with c.mp, s.hp, or c.mk becomes increasingly important instead of simply spamming booms? and things like f.mk, backfist, or b.hk can be used to peg people trying to walk forward on you. Also, using quick normals like s.hp or c.hk to punish whiffed attacks also plays a greater role in high-end play.

Guile?s Matchups Format Notes

- The current tier chart being referenced is the Iplaywinner August 2010 list found here: (http:/1/iplaywinner.com/news/2010/8/17/iplaywinner-super-street-fighter-4-tier-list-august-2010.html) and the numbers will be listed referencing Guile as the first number. Eg. The Akuma match is 4-6. Akuma?s favor.
- Listed for each matchup are option selects that I personally believe beneficial to the matchup. To learn more about option selects being referenced here, as well as option selects *not* referenced here, check this thread here: (http://shoryuken.com/f258/guile-option-selects-208157/)
- ?Guaranteed Punishes? references that if you block X, you can reversal with Y and it will hit clean, always, unless otherwise specified. Not to be confused with whiff punishes. Also will note things that are absolutely unpunishable that some people might think are. I?m also not posting obvious punishable stuff. We all know how to punish shoryus. 
- One thing to note is that I will be using a ?crumple code? for what is the most damaging combo following a level 2 focus crumple midscreen as well as indicating who can be hit with a GHK after a UDK combo in the corner. For more info, head to the combo thread here, third post down: (http://shoryuken.com/f258/flashkick-fadc-%2Ashades%2A-guile-combo-thread-201465/). Here is a quick reference of what the code will be.

Midscreen Crumple
S - crumple > UDK > s.hp xx jab boom > backfist (350 / 580)
A - crumple > UDK > c.mp xx jab boom > backfist (315 / 510)
B - crumple > UDK > s.mp xx jab boom > backfist (308 / 510)
C - crumple > UDK > s.hp xx jab boom (290 / 480)
D - crumple > GHK > hk flashkick (280 / 450)
E - crumple > ???

In the Corner
X - crumple > UDK > c.mp xx jab boom > GHK > hk flashkick (374 / 590)
Y - crumple > UDK > s.mp xx jab boom > GHK > hk flashkick (367 / 590)
Z - crumple > UDK > s.hp xx jab boom > GHK > hk flashkick (409 / 660)
0 - Can not land a GHK post boom off crumple.

So, without further, ado? to the important stuff!


Street Fighter Problems
SSF4 AE 2012 Guile Video Thread: Return to Respectability
fighting guy
#2

ABEL
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion: Abel?s favor
-General Gameplan: Keep Abel out with booms and normals while punishing approach attempts and escaping smartly when he finally gets in.
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects:
----> j.hk > early throw OS (on Abel?s wakeup to catch EX rolls.)
----> c.lk > c.lk + df.hk OS (on Abel?s wakeup when he doesn?t have EX. Catches backdash.)
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, s.mk, s.mp, nj.hp, air throw, flashkick, U2
-Ideal range: ¾ screen. Far enough to throw a boom and punish a reactionary roll, jump, or EX wheel kick.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> 1st hit of Change of Direction > LK super (Will work if Abel throws out the next attack in the series or not)
----> Last hit of Change of Direction > whatever, including U2
----> Poorly spaced wheel kick > whatever
----> Well spaced wheel kick > s.hp
----> (close) c.hp > s.hp, flashkick
----> c.hk > c.mp xx flashkick, sweep, either ultra
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Neutral jumping and back dashing are great tools for escaping Abel?s up-close mixup game. Having two bars for a flashkick FADC is pretty useful for escaping an ambiguous roll on your wakeup.
----> Pro tip: Exploit Abel?s big goofy hitbox while poking him? landing backfists and double s.hp on him is especially easy.
----> Pro tip: If you knock Abel down, you can harass him a bit on his wakeup. Press the advantage! If he wakes up with Breathless, as long as your jump in is meaty, just charge during his animation then do a flashkick at the first available moment.
----> FAQ: How do I escape random mid-screen breathless? A: It?s a guess between an instant flashkick or an instant EX boom, IMO. However, if he?s in range of hk flashkick when he activates Breathless, just flashkick him.

  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun:
-s.lp: I think this might be a useful tool to spam just outside it’s max range. Watching that video against Ryder, I did realize that one of Abel’s effective ways in is to focus dash through guile’s heavy pokes. Tapping a bit on s.lp would stop focus dashing, random dashing, maybe f.mk, and maybe EX CoD. The EX cod is what worries me a LOT in this matchup. Once Abel gets decent meter, it feels like the range Guile wins this matchup at, aka s.hp range, he starts to lose at because EX CoD can tag heavy pokes and non-ex booms with ease. Even if you bait n’ block, your still in a mixup scenario. I’m thinking maybe s.lp could chain into itself if the EX CoD was done close enough? Probably not though…

Anywho, s.lp has the benefit of being easily hit confirmed into s.hp. If you’ve ever played Abel even a little, you should also know by now that being able to land double s.hp is pretty easy against him.

Another thought… but shouldn’t close s.lp be able to stuff an attempted non-EX tornado throw after Abel dashes after a f.mk? After he hits with f.mk and dashes, I think he’s at +4… so on block he should be at +1 according to the frame data. His tornado throw starts up in 5 frames. His quickest normal starts in 4 frames. Guile’s close s.lp starts in 3 frames. Theoretically, a close s.lp would beat a non-EX TT, trade with his close s.hp, get beat by an EX TT, and get beat by a normal throw. Could anyone run the numbers on this? I think that’s correct though, making this a pretty decent defense when he doesn’t have ton’s of meter. Obviously, it would be useful to mixup with backdash and neutral jump. I used to think flashkick FADC trumped all of these… untill the day I blocked a f.mk > dash > hk roll > U1 in the back when I tried to reversal flashkick.

All TT’s have a 5 frame startup. EX TT is strike invincible, but throw vulnerable. Normal TT is strike vulnerable, but unthrowable.

Honestly, I had great luck in this matchup by utilizing backdash, but those glory days are over. After awhile, the best Abel players started taking note that when their opponents neutral jump or backdash alot, their offense just comes to a halt. So, they took corrective steps, some dabbling in option selects more than likely, and others taking seemingly crazy risks… like doing f.mk > dash > dash > TT. (Note, that last one beats backdashes AND neutral jumps) I consider Abel my 4th in line… I’ve dabbled with him quite a bit and I can say it’s pretty hard to get to this level.

Anyways, one thing I do is backdash when I sniff out a f.mk on the way. Great Abel’s use his s.lk a lot. It doesn’t do a lot of damage, but it really supplements his game perfectly. It’s quick with great range and essentialy discourages you from sticking out anything. I find that they will normally stick this out a couple times before sticking out a f.mk giving him a free “in”. His f.mk = easy to outpoke. His s.lk = not easy to outpoke.

That premptive backdash puts you in a good place to try to tag him with a backfist or bait him to jump or roll.

I think backdashing out of close-up pressure is still very viable in this matchup. However, I think once you do it once or twice, he’s going to start to compensate for your escape attempts. I think this is where messing around a bit with s.lp will come in handy, since it’s a pretty safe option for you that can tag both safe and unsafe options from him for decent damage. At least after a f.mk… it may be useful to hit s.lp on your wakeup vs. an ambiguous roll too, but definately not after he hits you with j.mk.

There’s so much information I know about this match and so much I don’t, it’s hard to keep from rambling. I know for example a falling sky > backdash > mk roll will perfectly position Abel behind you on your wakeup. I DON’T know how punishable it is. I need to take a lot of stuff to the lab here.

By Di3mini0n: Slinkun, you had asked me previously in the match between Yipes and me why I still choose ultra 1. The main reason is because I don’t think Ultra 2 is a good enough damage punish for Abel. Yeah it is easier to land, but then I still take a risk because I’m either hoping he jumps into it, which is unlikely because why would Abel jump in on guile, or a FADC ultra, which isn’t a good enough damage punish on Abel.

Ultra 1 does great damage, can combo off of a late short somersault if the opponent if Abel just so happen to jump in on you, also get a trade if his j. jab or forward trades with your flashkick, and yes, you can obviously combo short or forward double flash into ultra 1. That’s a high damage combo on Abel and for me, it’s good to land for Abel’s move set. You can punish his rolls, the first hit of CoD, and his heel kick on reaction with either super and/or ultra 1. Yeah you can with ultra 2 also, but you get more reward with ultra 1. That answers the question I hope.

By Branh0913: Abel isn’t that bad. He’s hard to go air to air with. My only strategy is to run away from him. I also neutral jump against him a lot. Jump happy Abels are really irritating. The thing I’ve learned to do Is to stay grounded (no suprise here), turtle, and throw sonic booms sparingly. Basically it’s a boring match for Guile as it consist of just running away and poking him. If he tries to jump AA him. Steeper jumpins are cr.mk friendly. st.FP stuff out half of his shit. And if Abel whiffs just cr.mk him. If you know Abel will jump you can early j.mk him out of the air. But only if the Abel player jump predictably. When you have him in the corner, just go nuts on him. He can’t do anything. U2 is a bitch but learn to looks for it. When he has it stocked defnitely be on alert and don’t jump at all. Ex sonic booms will stop it. At close range any flashkick will break his armor. You can also sonic hurricane him out of it as well if your reactions are that on point and you want to do some smart stuff. Of course this is range dependent. A lot of Ables love to crossup roll and do U2. But the good thing is any Abel who does this has made U2 jumpable. So when they do that just jump over their head and it’ll miss.[/details]

  • Video links: YouTube - EVO 2K10 semi. Lamerboi (guile) V.S. FYC Rider (Abel)

ADON

  • Latest tier chart: 4-6
  • Popular opinion:
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: C-0
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> Counter: Adon’s with good execution can jaguar kick you on reaction to sonic booms, so mix up speeds and timing is the key. S HP or backfist is a good quick counter attack if the jaguar kicks whiff. EX must be blocked high, all else can be blocked low.
    ----> Counter: Adon can alter the range of his off-the-wall Jaguar Tooth to make your AA’s whiff. Sonic Hurricane will tag him at many ranges if you do it on reaction to him going to the wall.
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:
    Discussion

[details=Spoiler]
By Hoppa: I have had recent troubles with my mates Adon, but after playing a heap casual sets i find that by backdashing out of the range of the jaguar kick you can S HP once it whiffs. If you are out of renge to do a B HP, you can jump in before he has time to do a rising Jaguar Kick.

A smart Adon player will soon learn not to use the Jaguar tooth (one where he jumps of the wall) if you have ultra 2 stocked. Think of the Jaguar kick as a version of sagats tiger knee back in Vanila. you could bait the jaguar kicks my pressing C LP and if this works you should be able to flash kick it. Watch for throws too, Adon WILL use them.[/details]

-Video links:

AKUMA
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion: Akuma?s favor? possible hardest matchup
-General Gameplan: Exploiting Akuma?s low health rating with trades and powerful normals while avoiding getting knocked down.
-Crumple type: C-0
-Useful option selects: None
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk (great for shoto jump-ins), backfist (can tag jump back air FB), nj.hp, air throw
-Ideal range: ½ to ¾ screen. Hard to gauge where you want to be in this match, because Akuma is effective everywhere. Stay a bit outside of his sweep range, where his footsies are ineffective and you can AA easier.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Poorly spaced sweep > flashkick, sweep, U2
----> Poorly spaced s.hk > c.mp xx flashkick
----> cs.hp and c.hp > c.mp xx flashkick, sweep, s.hp, either ultra
----> Demon flip slide > c.mp xx flashkick, sweep, either ultra
----> Point-blank Ultra 1 > Jump back, then df.hk into hk flashkick
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Don?t be afraid to trade an AA like s.hp with an air fireball.
----> Counter: If he likes to throw grounded fireballs, try to U2 him on reaction to one midrange? it?s a great trade.
----> Counter: If you have the right spacing, a U2 can hit Akuma when he jumps towards you and EX air fireballs.
----> Pro tip: Place heavy focus on landing your AA?s wherever possible, as once he gets in, it could be game over for you.
----> FAQ: How do I get out of his vortex? A: No umbrella answer here. See discussion below.
----> ** FAQ:** What?s the best way to punish a failed demon attempt? A: Jump back > df.hk > hk flashkick (FADC U2 if you have it). If you are using U1, just charge it during the ultra freeze, then let it rip.
----> FAQ: I play this Akuma and all he does is run away! Halp! A: Use EX boom to punish jump back air fireballs. Focus dash through air FBs until he?s in the corner, then stand no closer than ½ screen to make punishing a teleport or air tatsu easier.
-Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun: A lot of people think akuma’s vortex is limited to a 50/50 guess between cross-up tatsu or a strait, high jump in hk. Fact is, this is only one of three different vortex’s he has.

The first one, and IMHO his weakest, is a close knockdown into a crossup air fireball, with him landing on the other side… similair to (from what I’ve heard anyways) Ibuki’s. It’s pretty easy to just block akuma on this one if your watching carefully. Not sure how easy this would be to block vs. ibuki.

The next is the ever safe crossup tatsu > sweep. First off, you CAN react to this. Block back and if you see a tatsu, obviously, correct yourself. Honestly, this can only be truly practiced against a good akuma. Setting a dummy to record then “mixing it up” won’t help you. Now, what I just mentioned is against a bare-bones akuma vortex. You react, block correctly, block the sweep, then whatever, your out. Great Akuma’s, however, will continue a mixup after you block their air tatsu. So, I found this counter to the counter.

As before, you hold back on your wakeup and react to the tatsu, but instead of simply blocking the opposite direction, just go strait to down, and stick out a c.lk. Air tatsu whiffs over crouching guile, and you can either use the followup c.lk as a combo starter (can be tricky due to distance) or as a tick throw (very unexpected, but risky). If your feeling REALLY ballsy, never block high, hold your down charge on your wakeup, then react to the tatsu with a late EX flashkick. I do not suggest this however. I feel as though if your looking to hit this and holding your down charge, your more susceptible to getting hit by a j.hk. Could be different from person to person, but for me, I try to react to this in the most basic way possible. Less brain process = more success. Does this make sense to you guys?

The final and frankly, most devastating vortex is his demon flip stuff on your wakeup. First off, it seems he can set up the dive kick to be completely ambiguous. This in and of itself is scary. When set up like this, everything you will try on wakeup loses, with the exception of maybe an lk super, which will more than likely trade for 1 hit but get you out. What gets really nasty is when he starts doing the punch out of the flip. I feel like this is extremely difficult to react to, especially when looking for a crossup divekick. After he lands, he may c.lk > combo, instant throw, tick throw, tick > s.hp counterhit xx fireball xx FADC > s.hk loop, plain shoryu FADC, or, god forbid, super (it grabs instantly in this scenario, unescapable). Mix that in with demon flip > throw and he’s got one hell of a completely safe offensive pressure game on your wakeup.

Solution? First off, I make sure to block that divekick mixup low. It makes it a bit harder to block IMO, but you will have a flashkick charge to attempt a reversal against any following pressure. A good akuma player should notice you have a down charge too, and back off a little, which is good for you. As for the flip > punch, that shit’s just rough. If he has the meter to burn, using shoryu to attempt free damage is a solid option for him. A true perfect 50/50… hell probably more like 80/20 for the guy considering his options. Just try your damndest to react to the lack of there being a divekick, block the correct direction once he lands, stay calm, and LATE TECH! If he gets multiple opportunities to attempt this on you, mix up late teching with back dashing or jumping out. Stay frosty.[/details]

-Video links:


#3

BALROG (Boxer)
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Guile
-General Gameplan: Throw booms, punish approach.
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects: c.lk > f.lk + f.hp (Catches wakeup backdash, beats wakeup headbutt.)
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, flashkick, U2, df.hk, backfist
-Ideal range: Either ¾ screen or greater to punish risky approaches, or about ½ screen to be able to hit with c.hp clean.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Dash straight > lk or mk super.
----> Dash low > flashkick, sweep, U2 (may be range dependent)
----> TAP lvl 3+ > flashkick, sweep, either ultra
----> Non-EX dash ground smash > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing) (*may be range dependent)
----> mk / hk dash ground smash > flashkick, sweep, either ultra (*may be range dependent)
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: All EX rush punches can be thrown or flashkicked on reaction if they aren?t super close.
----> Counter: Turn punch can be easily reacted to with a quick normal like s.hp if he tries to TAP around a boom.
----> Pro tip: If you are outside rog?s sweep range, sometimes it?s a good idea to throw out a pre-emptive s.hp. This can stuff rush punches sometimes.
----> Pro tip: In small doses, using focus attacks to counter rush punches is extremely effective.
----> Pro tip: A safer option than focus attacks is to randomly neutral jump for the same purpose.
----> Pro tip: Having a super stocked is never a bad thing in the match. If you have it, you can almost sit on db for free!
----> FAQ: How do I beat Rog?s j.hp? A: From max range, df.hk is very effective. However, there?s a range where Balrog can jump a boom on reaction and any AA you try will trade at best. Don?t throw booms at this range, or throw them without walking back first, so he has to guess between jumping over a boom, or jumping into a flashkick.
-Discussion:

discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Rexell: Boxer’s main and few ways to get in are:

  1. Jumping across max screen booms when Guile is not following his booms or jumps over a fast boom.

  2. Gaining distance by slowly walking in while blocking booms until mid range.

  3. Jumping in mid range where his jump in will trade or stuff your anti air. Even then, he can choose to walk and poke or just maintain the distance and jump when you boom.

  4. EX dash punch of any kind makes him absorb a hit and be right in your face in a sec.

  5. Turn punch.

What I use when he does these are:

  1. At full screen distance, just throw a slow boom and walk about 2 steps/you can do b.lk to gain a bit of distance. Most Boxers will do empty jump over because they think you can’t do anything to them. If they jump, just walk forward a bit and backfist them. Whether it’ll trade or not will depend on ur backfist timing and whether if Boxer presses his heavy punch and his timing too if he does press hp. But they normally won’t press any buttons during this range as they think it’s safe unless they got hit the same way many times. This is just to make use to backfist’s deceptive range to anti-air him and it can be used on most opponents.

Another way is to follow your boom about and walk until you are just outside his headbutt range and see if he headbutts. If he doesn’t, just walk back immediately as he most probably will do a max range lp dash punch so that you block and he gets in. Walking back will make him whiff his lp dash punch and you can punish with s.hp by hitting his fist during his recovery. Walking back in a way also resets your zoning somehow as it lets you gain charge to throw another boom. In this case, Boxer sees you walk back and will think you’re going to throw a boom and he might jump in on you but if you get the correct timing of walking back and the distance right, when Boxer jumps over while you’re walking back and press hp, it’ll whiff and you can actually time a late s.hp to hit the recovery frames of his jump attack. If you’re fighting a very good Boxer, never dash forward after a boom full screen and then try to jump in and hit him with j.hk because he can headbutt you when you sees you jump as the boom hasn’t reach him yet.

  1. What I mean is actually the kind of Boxer is patient and seldom jumps and has good footsie skills. Just like a very good Gief player that walks in instead of jumping to close in. If he keeps focusing your booms and dashing back, just slow boom and b.lk once or twice after a boom until he reaches the corner. If he focuses booms and dash forward which is rare for this kind of player, s.hp or backfist him depending on range. Just following full screen booms when you see he has no down charge works well for gaining distance works quite well for this kind of Boxer. You will really have to perform well on footsies against this kind of Boxer in order to win because sooner or later you will eventually have to play his game when he just walks forward and blocks your booms.

  2. Normally when I get into this range(where his jump-in will stuff c.hp), I will walk back and sometimes Boxer will jump forward and you can take the chance to jump hk/airthrow him. But you have to do it slightly faster as a lot of Boxers press hp early. I find if it ends up in a scenario where you do nothing and he does nothing at this range, move forward and s.hk/f.mk sometimes works to push him back a little and start walking back to reset yourself and prepare to counter a lp dash punch. Another thing you can do is to fake a boom. Some players will take the bait and jump and you can punish. If they won’t be faked and only jump when you boom, walk back for a bit and boom. If you get the distance right and he jumps in after you, you can s.hp his jump in recovery since it’ll whiff. I’m not sure about this but I think some of Boxer’s jump in heavy attacks actually have quite long recovery frames compared to other characters when he reaches the ground if he whiffs, like Rufus’ dive kicks but slightly faster recovery than Rufus. This is because I hit him more often than other characters like Ryu when he whiffs his jump-ins and I hit him with s.hp/backfist when he just landed from his jump.

  3. For EX dash punches, you can throw him out of it easily if he does it quite often as normally he won’t do it full screen to get in. There is a distance where he will see or anticipate your boom and use it. And you can throw him if he uses it at that range. Slightly less than 3/4 and half screen distance is where you have to look out for this move. Throw is recommended as the startup is faster than s.hp. However, if Boxer does it in reaction to a slow boom at slightly more than half screen to 3/4 screen, you can hit him with 2 s.hp for max damage or s.lp > s.hp if he does it slightly faster or you reacted a few frames too slow for s.hp. Basically, you can hit him with any attack if he executes EX dash punch in reaction to your boom. If he does it faster, you hit him with lighter attacks. But really smart Boxers will know this and they will use EX dash punch to guess when you’re about to boom and execute just when you boom or before you boom and you get hit by it if they guess right and do it before you boom. If they keep guessing right and do it this way, just use EX boom or block it and super. Neutral jump is a good way to defeat dash punches if you expect one coming. Focus is good too against dash punch but don’t abuse it or you’ll eat ultra or the armor breaking punch which too can lead to ultra in the corner. I use focus on dash punch only when I have blocked a dash punch a few times in the same situation which you can tell that it’s the player’s bad habit or when he just thinks you forgot that focus can break dash punch cos you keep blocking.

  4. Backfist will counter turn punch about 90% of the time. However, sometimes it’ll trade with backfist depending on the level of turn punch charged and the distance between you and him.

Watch out when you have the life lead and Boxer is getting desperate, they will usually try to catch you during their c.lp block string with a delayed EX heatbutt to try and catch your throw crouch tech. It’s easier to be hit with EX headbutt as compared to Ryu’s uppercut as EX headbutt hits you later than uppercut so it’s easier to catch a you whiffing a late tech.

DF.hk is a good move against boxer’s jump in at df.hk max range too. It won’t get stuffed on max range if your timing and distance is correct. And you get to hit backfist/FK whether it trades or not.

I think that Boxer can be hit a lot of frames when he descends from the top of his jump as compared to many other characters. I think the most similiar e.g I would use is Zangief’s jump.

This is what I think is important about Boxer matchups and I hope this helps in Guile players in matchups with Boxer.

By Slinkun: I think footsies are important dieminion, but I don’t think they can win this matchup alone. Frankly, boxer’s footsies are better than yours. Not extremely better, but still, both his c.hk and s.hk crap over most of guile’s normals when he’s out of your s.hp range. (Because s.hp works awesome against boxer otherwise.) Also, even in the case of guile’s s.hp and other closer range footsies, a close EX rush is safe for rog (unless you have super) and can really swing things in his favor.

Personally I believe it’s important to mixup footsies with tricking him to jump into a flashkick. I’ve mentioned a similair tactic against Zangief, who is another character with an auto-mixup on his jump-in. I try to spend a bit of time in down-back in this match. I try to minimize time between the crouch animation and the boom throw animation while throwing out crouching feints. In reality, this can be hard to react to, and rog will inherently start making some unsafe jumps into EX flashkick. I’ve gotten this to work quite effectively against Aojiru Guile’s boxer, although he still trounced me by being easily the msot patient and footsie-centric boxer player on the planet.

I think the trick is just being able to change up playstyles at the tip of a hat. Trying to realize what he’s going for as fast as possible is really important. If he tries to start bulldogging, backfist or s.hk. If he starts to jump more, try to hit that flashkick. If he seems to be sitting on a lot of meter, try nuetral jumping and coming down with nj.hp for a bit. This beats any close range rush punches or EX rush punches without sacrificing the risk on sticking out an FA or poke.

I think it can also be very helpful to press the advantage when you can in this matchup. Boxer is used to this match being pure cat and mouse and it can be beneficial to try to do a little bit of oki on his wakeup. Like Guile, he gets hurt pretty bad by crossups and hurt even worse by safe jumps. If you score a knockdown with a flashkick or sweep, it can be useful to mix it up between j.lk > counter-poke attempt (cuz you know he’s mashing dat jab), safe jump hk > whatever, and empty crossup > c.lk > combo xx flashkick. Just don’t try crossups if it will put you too much closer to the corner.

A great way to get out of the corner against rog is to get him to block a lvl 2 focus, then dash up, c.lk x 2 > j.lk crossup. I think jump back fierce is his only real option, although theoretically you could beat that with an early back air throw. Probably only worthwhile trying this if you see him walk forward, losing his back and down charge.[/details]

-Video links:

BLANKA
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Guile
-General Gameplan: Place heavy emphasis on reacting appropriately to Blanka?s gimmicks and punish / counter appropriately.
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects: None
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, air throw, jump back j.hp
-Ideal range: Max screen is ok. Playing at ½ screen you must stay conservative, but it?s still extremely effective as you can react to many of Blanka?s options with flashkick.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Horizontal ball > EX boom, (Only works while standing, consistency still may be patchy) and just about anything in the corner.
----> Vertical ball > EX boom, flashkick, as well as U2 at some ranges or in the corner.

  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> Counter: Rainbow ball can be absorbed on reaction with a full level 3 focus attack.
    ----> Counter: Try to EX flashkick horizontal balls on reaction. Using c.lp and c.mp can also tag balls on reaction if you don?t have a charge.
    ----> Counter: If you get hit by an EX ball that goes through your lp sonic boom, Blanka may recoil into it. If this happens, juggle with EX boom for a GREAT trade!
    ----> Counter: If Blanka constantly goes for crossups, as long as they aren?t on your wakeup, j.hp will get you out.
    ----> Pro tip: Jump back air throw can punish horizontal ball attempts at a certain range, such as the start of the round.
  • Discussion:

discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun: AT A DISTANCE: Don’t be afraid to mid screen boom in range of his slide. You NEED to do this in order to apply pressure. The trick is to skew to risk/reward ratio in your favor. Every time you see a mid range blanka move forward a little, tap your FA. If nothing happens after a few seconds, back dash. If you mix this up decently, you can start incorporating throwing out booms from that range instead. This makes the damage ratio tilt in your favor. You may eat a few slides in the process, but thats just part of the game, you can’t let it get you down, but be smart about it. You have to try to as safe as possible from horizontal ball, slide, and jump ins all at the same time. Remember you will never be able to perfectly safe, so just do your best and stay fluid. As someone else mentioned know what charge blanka has stored.
UP CLOSE: This is tricky. As it was mentioned, its difficult to smack blanka’s crossup j.mk or strait jump in roundhouse with a c.hp. However, don’t let this discourage you from trying. Even if it never hits cleanly, I prefer going for the cr.hp for an AA because I hate getting caught in blanakas mixup game. I also have good luck with using FA as an anti-air in this fight, because blankas j.hk hits so high. It’s easy for blankas to abuse a crossup j.mk, poke, poke, crossup j.mk, mixup etc. I’ve had a good deal of luck with jump back fierce, but there is still no true right answer to this. After a blanka hop, he could throw, tick throw, electricity, EX vertical roll… and there’s no right answer that will stop all of his options. However, as I’ve mentioned, I’ve had much luck with jump back fierce.[/details]

-Video links:

C. VIPER
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion: Viper?s favor
-General Gameplan: Out damage her with use of normals and correct use of your AA attacks.
-Crumple type: E-X
-Useful option selects: j.hk > early b.hk (should beat wakeup EX seismo? untested)
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, flashkick, focus attack, s.hp, j.hp, j.hk, air throw, df.hk, lk super
-Ideal range: Max screen will allow her too whiff a seismo, letting you safely throw an lp boom and chase it for some pressure. At close range, Viper?s footsies < Guile?s footsies < EX seismo. Viable at close range, but be careful.
-Guaranteed punishes:
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: EX seismo xx sjc > instant burn kick can be EX flashkicked at certain ranges.
----> Counter: Guile?s f.mk, b.mk, and UDK (b.hk), can evade lows. This includes seismo.
----> Counter: Her hp thunder knuckle is throw vulnerable. When she doesn?t have meter, you can harass her with throws during pressure strings.
----> Pro tip: You can?t play a traditional Guile in this match. Jumping around out of range of her hp thunder knuckle like an idiot is surprisingly hard for her to counter.

  • Discussion:

discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun: Something I’ve been meaning to try with the viper matchup is mixing up close pressure strings with UDK. I have a pretty good feeling it could reliably hit her out of any reversal EX seismo since it’s immune to lows and has good active frames, and it may hit high enough to smack a reversal burn kick (as a throw escape attempt). Granted it would still lose to reversal hp thunder knuckle and throws pretty easily, so it may be better to use the mk sobats to mix it up instead if you want to to play it safe, since you are less likely to get thrown… but I’m still super curious about trying UDK since the reward part of the risk/reward would really hurt viper.

Ya, viper definately feels like a strange matchup because it feels like your at a disadvantage no matter where you are on the screen. In case you didn’t already know, hp seismo will whiff max screen as long you weren’t doing anything, like throwing a boom. I normally try to use this as a moderately safe “get in” button; throwing a lp boom and starting a short string of offense pressure… trying to get her to waste some meter or score myself a counter-hit then try to back off and focus on keeping her out again.

Definately a hard match though. I’d probably stick with U2 though due to flashkick FADC hurricane.

Response by Warahk: I have a lot of experience in the viper match up, and am pretty comfortable with it.

UDK is extremely effective against viper on her wake up. It will trade with hp thunder knuckle and ex burning kick in guiles favor, and stuff back dash. On block it usually leaves guile with some decent +frames, and sets up frame trap tick throw mix up. To counter hit ex seismo you kinda have to stagger it a couple frames, but if you do counter hit seismo it is easy to confirm into s.hp xx boom fadc sweep.[/details]

-Video links:

CAMMY
-Latest tier chart: 5-5
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan: Once she gets close, she can start good divekick pressure. Don?t let her get in.
-Crumple type: D-0
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s: air throw, EX flashkick
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Spiral arrow can range from being blatantly safe to blatantly punishable on block. It’s almost never going to be U2 punishable. Using c.mp xx flashkick is good not only because it is quick, but if she had time to block, you can “block confirm” your combo and FADC it for safety.
-Discussion:
-Video links:


#4

CHUN LI
-Latest tier chart: 5-5
-Popular opinion: Slight advantage Chun
-General Gameplan: Attempt to get into a projectile war, otherwise, punish her approaches.
-Crumple type: C-0
-Useful option selects: c.lk > f.lk + f.hp (Catches backdashes on wakeup. Wouldn?t try this if chun has meter for EX SBK)
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, close s.hk, flashkick, air throw
-Ideal range: Anywhere outside of her sweep range. You can?t out-footsie chun, so you need to be able to safely pressure with booms instead.
-Guaranteed punishes:
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Fishing with focus attack is good against her hazanshu (hcb+k).
----> Counter: If you can?t charge your focus to level 2 against hazanshu, you can focus it > dash > c.lk > c.lp > c.mp xx flashkick or throw.
----> Pro tip: If, instead, you hit her with a level 1 focus, your followup dash in either direction can be punished by her super or U1.
----> Counter: Jumping in with j.lp can stuff some of her AA attempts, even EX Spinning Bird Kick (SBK) sometimes!
----> Counter: Your c.mp can tag her nj.hk on the way down clean.
----> Counter: A close jump in from her can be tagged with close s.hk clean when spaced right.
----> Counter: Just like against shotos, you can U2 a mid screen kikoken.
----> Pro tip: Once she gets U1 stocked, you will have to play footsies with her. Only throw booms when you see her lose back charge and then follow them for some safe pressure.
----> Pro tip: Chun Li has a fast walk speed and dash. Many chuns will abuse this to get in on you. Use backfist or b.hk to put them in their place.
----> Pro tip: Her EX SBK is a good gtfo move, but can be countered with a neutral jump in the middle of your pressure strings, or easily safe jumped on her wakeup.

  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Warahk:
Lead is really important in this match up, either character can gay the other out pretty easily. I have a lot of experience in this match up (Shizza). Unless you’re playing an U1 chun with great reactions you can throw booms with almost no fear, and really control the pace of this match. This match was affected by the new charge time just as much as the ryu and sagat matches. Sonic hurricane helps guile in this match a lot too. Chun can’t put you into block stun with hasanshu when you throw a jab boom unless it was psychic. Remember, if you could block a hasanshu, you could’ve focus dashed through it and punished. (the easiest punish is a throw, more advanced punish is c.lk > c.lp > c.mp xx fk).

chun’s like to hasanshu in 50/50 situations because it’s cheap as hell. c.fierce tech works well against the hasanshu/throw mix up. you cant afford to overuse it though because chun has beastly frame traps, and if she blocks c.fierce she can punish with c.lk xx legs pretty easily.

with the new charge time you can push chun to the corner with bazooka knee and jab/fierce boom. fierce boom is punishable by hasanshu, but it’s a risk you have to take in my opinion. When chun is in the corner you can pressure her pretty hard. try to bait her wall jump when you have her cornered, if you punish it with air throw once or twice she’ll feel pretty helpless.

with godlike reaction U1 chun is still a nightmare. but U2 chun loses to guile in my opinion. Do not ex boom good chun’s w/ U1 ready. you will eat a dick. shizza explained to me that ex boom is free to react to because there isn’t much he needs to look for at that distance, so as soon as he sees yellow you’re done.

Response by Slinkun:
Ya, I have NO idea why any chun would pick U2 against Guile. The good jap chun’s can easily react to even a jab boom with U1 if they are in range. They also like to sit max screen and occaisionally dash while buffering an ultra… so even max screen it feels unsafe to throw booms. Her U1 is just so friggin fast.

Another thing about her is that chun becomes way more dangerous once the person using her gets great execution skills. Getting tagged by stuff like a tick throw bait into close s.hk (counter-hit) xx lk hazanshu > c.lk xx EX legs is just a downright painful punish for a crouch tech. Even when a Chun can land the overly simple stuff with perfect consistency, like c.lk > c.lk xx EX legs, she becomes that much scarier.

Response by Warahk:
man, the japanese chuns you’re describing sound just like shizza lol. when i mentioned “beastly frame traps” thats the combo i was talking about. if you’re blocking you can interrupt s.hk xx hasanshu with flash kick though. because of this shizza started using s.hk > c.lp combos instead.

you can definitely bait chun’s U1 with enthusiastic fake booms, but the fact that the presence of chun’s U1 forces you to fake tons of sonic booms gives her a definite advantage. The match completely changes once chun has ultra, it’s frustrating.[/details]

-Video links:

CODY
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> c.hk (from close to mid range) > Flashkick, sweep, U2
----> non-lp criminal upper > flashkick, sweep, either ultra
----> LP criminal upper > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
----> poorly spaced (close) ruffian kicks > flashkick, c.mp, sweep, either ultra (except for LK ruffian, which is only U1 punishable)
----> All non-ex Zonk knuckles > flashkick, c.mp, sweep, either ultra. (U2 can’t punish EX zonk, but U1 can)
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
-Discussion:
-Video links:

DAN
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Guile?s favor
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: C-X
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> c.hp > flashkick, sweep, U1
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
-Discussion:
-Video links:

DEE JAY
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Guile?s favor
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: A-X (mp boom required)
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> c.hp > flashkick, sweep, U1
----> close c.mk > flashkick
----> LK rolling sobat > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> MK rolling sobat > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1
----> HK or EX rolling sobat > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> non-EX machine gun upper > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> EX machine gun upper > flashkick
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Any jump in pressure on Dee Jay?s wakeup can be countered by EX upkicks it seems, but that move will whiff against crouching meaty attacks. You can apply some good wakeup pressure this way.
-Discussion:

Discussion

Spoiler

By m2dave: Just keep in mind that you never have to cross up Dee Jay. Dee Jay is to meaty attacks (and safe jumps) what Guile is to cross ups. If you properly time a meaty attack while Dee Jay is grounded with Guile, Upkicks will whiff and Sobat Kicks will get blocked because of their laughably slow start up frames. You can punish either response with a Flash Kick, but he can FADC the Sobat Kicks. If the Dee Jay player starts backdashing, simply option select a low roundhouse after your meaty attack to successfully knock him down. Upkicks have the ability to auto-correct, but they are still safe-jumpable. I cannot see his wake up defense being much better than Guile’s, if at all. They both suffer even if it is for different reasons. The point is that Guile’s best meaty attack is cr.jab, so, in fact, Dee Jay’s U2 is the only legitimate threat because the U2 has 7 start up frames while Guile’s cr.jab recovers in 8 frames. The U2 is still safe jumpable, of course. As is everything else. Guile can safe jump or utilize meaty attacks on a grounded Dee Jay risk-free pretty much.

-Video links:

DHALSIM
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion: Dhalsim?s favor
-General Gameplan: Get the life lead and turtle up.
-Crumple type: S-X
-Useful option selects:
----> c.lk > c.lk + df.hk (punishes backdashes on wakeup)
----> c.mk > f.mp ~ U2 (punishes backdashes and teleports in any direction. Timing is strict))
----> c.mp > boom ~ U2 (punishes backdashes and teleports in any direction)
-Useful AA?s: s.hp, s.mp
-Ideal range: Tough one. Some say max screen for a projectile war. However, ideally you really do want to be in sim?s face, it?s just that getting there is hard. Up close, you can mix him up with frame traps, throws, and OS?s.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Yoga Sniper (jump back hp) > EX boom (Range dependent)
----> Poorly spaced slides > flashkick, c.mp, sweep, U1
----> Well spaced slides > nothing
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: He shouldn?t be able to teleport in on you. If you have a life lead and think that he?ll attempt a teleport, then throw booms only on reaction to his fires. If he teleports, smack him with a s.hp, then rush him down or back off? your choice.
----> Counter: Like anyone else with a fireball, try to U2 is fires on reaction if you?re close enough.
----> Pro tip: His U2 is very dangerous because he can set up a trap with EX Yoga Fire -> Teleport. If you block, he gets standard teleport mixups, and if you jump he gets U2. It’s still a guess, but it’s heavily in Sim’s favor. U2 in general is very dangerous because he can try to force you to jump with EX Yoga Fire and if he catches you jumping, there’s nothing you can do to avoid his U2.
----> Pro tip: If you got skills, try playing max range footsies with him. Your c.mp can tag the recovery of his s.hp on whiff, and b.mk can sometimes stuff other limbs.
----> FAQ: How do I counter his U1 overhead / low attack mixup? A: You can opt to nullify it completely with your U2. Otherwise, either run away if you have space or just hope you can guess right.
-Discussion:
Discussion

[details=Spoiler]
By Branh0913: I think the big thing about the Sim matchup is that people perceive it differently. People who feel it is hard believe you need to get in on Sim. This is not a really big leap to make, as Sim has very few good up close options, so naturally people think they need to get in on Sim and take advantage of this. Still, I maintain that you don’t really have to get in on Sim. You can pretty much throw sonic booms across the screen all match, and watch for him trying to get a few moves in. Sim doesn’t have a reliable way in on Guile. From the Sim players perspective, they are probably thinking the same way guile players think. They believe they need to get in on Guile. In truth neither needs to get in on each other. Sim has superior space control with his limbs, Guile has a superior projectile game. Both can’t advance on each other without a considerable amount of risk involved.

As far as U2 is concerned for Sim, you have to keep in mind that Guile’s U2 serves are a problem from him as well. He has to be very careful about teleporting and jumping when Guile has U2. Also you have to factor in that Sim U2 doesn’t do a lot of damage, at least not for an ultra. It’s significant enough, but it doesn’t necessarily put him back in the game. But maybe I’m speaking out of ignorance, because most Sims I face prefer to stick with U1. I play Sim casually, and I can’t see any real benefits of U2 over U1. U1 was actually buffed a lot in this game, and I still think it’s the ultra Guile players should worry about. Sim get’s huge damage on guesses from U1, and that’s really the ultra that puts him back in the game.

Sim can’t start IAT shennanigans against Guile really. Trying to IAT his sonic booms will leave him in a bad position. From the Sim player’s perspective, it’s already hard enough to do it to Sagat, Ryu, and Ken. Guile is even more difficult. Most Sims with a brain won’t teleport against Guile unless they’re desperate. Sim has no reliable ways to do damage, or take initiative in this match. So he’s really in the same situation Guile is in. Which is why I think it’s 5-5.

By my_name_is_better: I do not know specific details and such, but your sole strategy, is to get that good chunk life lead and turtle your butt off. He has trouble getting in to you just as your attempts to get in. However beware of his ultra 1 cross up shenanigans, especially when he has a super, Dhalsim comeback potential rivals Rufus once he reachs a super and has an ultra stocked.

As a guile player, you enjoyed back fisting those who shoot projectile when you are walking behind a sonic boom, am I right? Think of it this way, often in a match, Dhalsim may shoot fire before you shoot a Sonic boom, making you eat a St., so be patient and look for opprotunities to safely shoot a boom.

At times, you may get cornered, and get preasured with long ranged limbs and slow fireball chip damage, forcing you to do hasty stuff. Remember, limbs attack do not do chip damage, so it is ok to block them. Trade his fire with a boom if it is safe to do so, otherwise just block it, relax, and look for that opening.

Now, when you finally cornered Dhalsim, this will be your very last chance to score a win. If you look at some videos of great Guile players, you will notice how some, like GeoM, successfully use FADC to do extremely safe and almost airtight corner preasure that does good chunk of chip damage (each blocked boom does 15 damage), or if you want to save meter, learn spacing of sonic boom to do a “safe” jump in to even futher expand the preasure. If a sonic boom is blocked, you could follow on Dhalsim (and others) with Cr. -> Cr. xx Sonic boom if you are close, and create a good position for a overhead follow up for more preasure, learn to mix things up.

Your corner game as Guile on Dhalsim is to do safe chip damages, and punish every attempt to escape, like punishing teleport (ground teleport, since air teleport gets face punched before he even finish jumping) with throw, reversal super with Cr. xx (flash kick / Sonic boom -> Guile High Kick [:dr:] -> follow up attack / Super), basically reduce his options to null.

Your only comebacks are either from corner, or Ultra 2 a fireball on reaction, so you really have to fetch for that corner, it is a gamebreaker, or if you have the life lead, sit there, shoot a boom to match his fireball, and then anti-anything he does. Really, just play safe and remain calm.[/details]

-Video links:
----> http://www.youtube.com/user/XUpYourGameX#p/u/0/J09Jw11F-D4 (Aeroplane x Aminx)


#5

DUDLEY
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Thunderbolt > anything
----> LP machine gun blow > LK super only
----> MP / HP machine gun blow > flashkick
----> EX machine gun blow > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> Ducking upper > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> Poorly spaced ducking strait > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Pro tip: If you FADC a Flash Kick vs Dudley then backdash, he gets a free Rolling Thunder on you.
-Discussion:
-Video links:

E. HONDA
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Easy match? possible easiest matchup
-General Gameplan: Honda has poor options for dealing with fireballs. Exploit this.
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects: None
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk, s.mp, s.hp, c.mp (tags his nj.hp), flashkick, df.hk, close s.hk, j.hk, air throw, U2
-Ideal range: ¾ screen.
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> hp headbutt > U2
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Buttslams confuse a lot of new players. You can hit them clean with a very early c.hp, but a more damaging and easier option is using close s.hk. All else fails, focus and dash out.
----> Pro tip: Never go on the offensive. Honda wants you to jump into EX headbutts and EX buttslams. Play this match lame and you should win. If you can?t land an AA on him because he?s too far away, s.hp will push him back out for free.
----> Pro tip: Mix up your anti-airs. For the most part your AA?s are better than Honda?s jump in attacks, but that doesn?t mean that any one of your AA?s will stuff all his options. Mix up s.hp, df.hk, and c.hp on the ground with your air-to-airs.
----> Pro tip: If he?s holding back on meter use, he probably wants to land a combo into hands xx super for massive damage. Take caution up close.
----> Pro tip: Some Hondas will try to frustrate you by sitting at ¾ or max screen and nj.hp?ing your booms. Don?t get frustrated. Just sit back and enjoy the ride as you build meter and he jumps around like an idiot.
----> FAQ: How do I get out of Honda?s wakeup game? A: Just like any other character with a strong close range game, mixing up your escapes is important. Jumping and backdashing will get you out of command grab pressure, but you risk eating a hands combo.
-Discussion:
-Video links:

EL FUERTE
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion: Fuerte?s favor? possible hardest matchup
-General Gameplan: Evading Elf?s multiple tricks to score a knockdown, scoring what damage you can without getting knocked down.
-Crumple type: B-0
-Useful option selects: c.lk > ub.lk ~ flashkick (Tags wakeup backdash and EX spaghetti legs)
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, s.mp, df.hk (walljump), air throw, j.hk, nj.hp, backdash
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Tostada press > U2, sweep
----> Tostada crossup > sweep
----> Poorly spaced hk slide > anything
----> Properly spaced hk slide > nothing
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: The first step to countering Fuerte is knowing about all his moves. Further information below in discussion.
----> Pro tip: Chill on the jumping once Fuerte gets ultra. He can make you hurt for trying.
-Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun: As mentioned above, one key to dealing with Elf?s wakeup pressure is knowing what he?s capable of. Here are his viable wakeup mixups, and the things that beat them.
Run forward lp (sudden stop): Used for baits or a throw? not very good.
----> Jump and flashkick can be easily punished, but are options.
----> Just tech the throw.
Run forward hk (calamari slide)
----> Low block.
----> Focus attack
----> Flashkick
**Run forward mp (tostada press): **Can steer it to cross you up or land in front. Evades flashkicks easily.
----> High block (50/50 direction guess)
----> Focus absorb (attack if it lands in front, otherwise dash)
----> Backdash (tostada press will connect, but you will be able to quickstand)
Run forward hp (fajita buster): Looks the same as the press, but it?s a throw. Evades flashkicks easily.
----> Low block / crouch (Move will whiff)
----> Jump
----> Back or forward dash (Can sometimes work, backdash is better)
Run back mp (tostada press): Same as run forward version, but probably won?t crossup. Easily evades flashkicks.
----> High block
----> Focus absorb
----> Backdash
Run back hp (propeller tortilla): Different animation, so you can react to it. Easily evades flashkicks.
----> Jump
----> Backdash
----> Forward dash.

  • Now, what to do with all this information? At its most basic level, we can see that flashkicking is probably a bad idea. It also seems like your most consistent option is backdashing. This is true to some extent, but keep in mind that most fuerte players know the power of the backdash just as much as you. Essentially, this post could go on for days about yomi theory, so keep it short and make a couple notes?

  • Mix up your escapes. This is key, and you?ll hear it a lot. However it?s extra important in this matchup.

  • Do not jump on reaction to propeller tortilla. Ever. Fuerte recovers so fast from it that he can easily anti-air your jump no matter which direction you go. If he has ultra stocked, than he can AA you with his ultra. Your best option is to try and backdash it on reaction, although you may still get grabbed by it, depending on your timing.

  • As far as pressuring elf on HIS wakeup, you have some pretty good options. His only wakeup options are EX run (throwable), EX spaghetti legs (punishable), Super, and Ultra. I find that wakeup throws and throw baits work a real charm here, especially when he doesn’t have an ultra ready to go. It seems a bit scrubby, but by using wakeup throw a few times on him, you are pretty much training him not to use EX run on wakeup, allowing you to open up with meaties and frame traps.

  • Wakeup throw him a few times.

  • Forward throw > walk forward > walk back > watch him whiff a throw or c.lk > walk forward > throw.

  • Forward throw > walk forward > walk back > watch him whiff a throw or c.lk > walk forward > s.hp.

  • c.lp xx EX boom (this is nice because if he DOES try EX run, it will blow through armor. The c.lp also recovers in time to a void a wakeup U1. I also think that if you input the EX boom as a late cancel, and he backdashes, the boom will come out and punish the backdash. Unsure)

  • whatever > Punish spaghetti legs with a backfist.

Those are grounded options you have. However, you also have a good amount of jump in options as well. First off, if he has NO meter, you can mix him up for free with crossup’s, deep jump-in j.hk, whatever. Again a personal favorite of mine is empty jump > c.lk > c.lp > c.mp xx flashkick. If he has meter, empty jump in throw is solid. The same idea applies above as it opens him up and teaches him to not EX run.

Also, knowing your long range game is important too. Elf still doesn’t have the easiest time getting in on guile. Being seemingly retarted and random max screen seems to get in his head. I throw booms very rarely in this fight, but I do lot’s of max screen pokes like b.hk or backfist, random max screen FA’s, random neutral jump lk’s, quickly ducking then standing… whatever. It seems to throw him off his game and keep him from doing a max range splash or slide.

If he does get into a range where he becomes a threat, start incorporating random backdashes into your game, as well as backdashes on reaction to his splash attempts. This is due to backdashes being much safer in this match than jumping back. Punish whatever he does with a sweep when you can, then attempt to put some pressure on him during wakeup.[/details]

-Video links:

FEI LONG
-Latest tier chart: 5-5
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: D-0
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> C.hk > sweep, flashkick, U2 (won’t connect at max range)
----> Final hit of ANY rekka > Anything, including df.hk
----> *Any non-LP 2nd rekka > Flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> *LP 2nd rekka > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> HP / EX rekka (1st hit) > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> MP rekka (1st hit) > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> LP rekka (1st hit) > flashkick (Won’t work at max range)
*Fei long has control over the strength of the second hit of any non-EX rekka regardless of the initial strength. This makes your ultras unreliable for punishing the second rekka, since it’s near impossible to distinguish the light version from the mp and hp versions.
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Backwards sobat can beat chickenwing (even EX) clean, but the timing is strict. If you’re feeling especially stylish, you can df. HK the chickenwing.
----> Counter: His jumping roundhouse can beat your airthrow, but only if he predicts an airthrow and does it really early, if you mix up your anti-airs you can destroy him in the air.
-Discussion:
-Video links:


#6

GEN
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk, flashkick
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> Crane c.lk > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> Crane c.hk > anything
----> Oga wall dives > s.hp, sweep, U1 or U2
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
-Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Syngin: Oga is -8f on block (-13f if it’s a far one) - block and punish.

Both short and long can be beat very cleanly with a late lk.fk, but if he goes for the top one, just block as if he were attacking you from the wall he most recently jumped off (IIRC).

Generally the best bet when he’s in crane is to stay really solid - he’s very fucking pointy in that stance. Block all Oga kicks and punish, don’t leave yourself open to rolls (and watch for roll fadc mix-ups), never meet him in the air, feel free to jump-in if he’s not inclined to switch to mantis, and try to zone him softly.

In mantis, you only need to worry about his shenanigans as he doesn’t have an easy way to get through Guile’s wall. Once he’s in, stay alert, push him out and make him want the Oga.

Play to the weakness of each stance appropriately.[/details]

-Video links:

GOUKEN
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: D-0
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> C.hp > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> Demon flip slide > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
----> Non-EX Senkugoshoha (rush punch) > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> EX Senkugoshoha (rush punch) > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
-Discussion:
-Video links:

GUILE
-Latest tier chart: 5-5
-Popular opinion: Even?
-General Gameplan: Smart use of long range pokes to stuff sonic booms is important, as well as keeping your defense solid. If you knock the other Guile down, press the advantage with crossups.
-Crumple type: A-X
-Useful option selects: None.
-Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk, s.hp, j.hp, flashkick, air throw, U2
-Ideal range: uhh?
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> c.hp > flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1 and U2
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Don?t forget all the stuff that YOU get hit with against other people in your other matchups? punish sweep with a flashkick or at least a level 1 focus > backdash, and remember that you can flashkick in between hits of the target combo.
----> Pro tip: You can utilize j.lp as a jump in to attempt to stuff a normal AA attack from Guile.
----> Pro tip: You know how Guile sucks at being crossed up? You can exploit this if you score a knock down.
---->** Pro tip:** Backfists, b.hk, f.mk, and c.mk are good pokes to stuff boom startup but?
----> Pro tip: Many of Guile?s pokes are susceptible to focus attacks. If you land a level 2 focus, you can do some nice damage. Just don?t focus a sonic boom.
----> Pro tip: I prefer trying to have a super stocked in this match as opposed to using meter for EX booms so I can take one opening and do some decent damage. Plus, landing EX booms on Guile is hard.
-Discussion:
-Video links:

GUY
-Latest tier chart: 4-6
-Popular opinion:
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: E-X
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s: j.hp, nj.hp, air throw, df.hk, s.mk
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> lp hazanto (shoulder tackle) > LK super only
----> mp hazanto > flashkick
----> HP / EX hazanto > flashkick, s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
----> Poorly spaced run slide > anything up to U1 or U2
----> Perfectly spaced run slide > flashkick
----> Neck flip (run > high kick) > s.hp, sweep (reversal timing)
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Counter: Guile has air dominance in this fight. While Guy’s Izuna Drop-type throw can beat your air throw, it’s generally a good idea to meet Guy in the air and hit him accordingly with a mix of air throw and j.hp. These air-to-airs will also destroy Bushin Flips more often than not.
----> Counter: Bushin flip throw can’t grab crouchers and the elbow can be blocked low so you can keep your flashkick charge in most situations.
----> Pro tip: If he combos into slide, then jumps straight up, don’t try to punish him with flashkick. It’s a safe jump setup.
-Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Chowwun: IIRC, Guy’s air throw range is not as good as Guiles, so you just need to press it earlier if you’re expecting him to flip.

I’m not sure how Guile’s goofy kick (cl.s.hk) will work. Also, maybe you can also try GHK…

On a side note, more Guy stuff:

On wakeup, Guy’s elbow eats anything and everything Guile throws out.

For non-wakeup, Guy’s elbow usually gets beaten by cr.hp. You can also try FAing (backdash) that stuff. I’ve found that if you block the elbow high, you can punish with… something I can’t remember. But you risk being thrown.

For me, I initially found his jump arc really weird, but after playing a pal who plays him fairly competently, I recognized the arc and can see the crossups and jump ins. IMO, FK won’t be a very useful tool in this matchup. Use booms to space him accordingly and FA his run -> slide/arc kick thing (don’t get too close though, arc kick thing does 2 hits).

You can U2 punish to react to whiffed elbow drops at around backfist range.

Response by Duck Strong: Guy’s Bushin flip throw range might be slightly less than Guile’s airthrow, but it has 1 frame startup and iirc, special throws(the non-throwable kind) will always beat normal throws if their active frames overlap.

I really think the best option is to stay on the ground and try to anti-air the bushin flip or even just block the elbow low. Guy can’t really continue pressure off it because the hitstun on the bushin flip version is not that great. If you still have your flashkick charged, he’ll be a bit more reluctant to bulldog you. Also, if he does land it, it sets up his crossup game which Guile can die to pretty easily.

I don’t think it’s worth the risk meeting him in the air against his bushin flip unless you call it very early to smack him pre-emptively with j.rh or neutral j.fp.

Response by Branh0913: Concerning Guy. A few weeks ago I played the worst kind of Guy player, one who never blocks and loves to keep moving forward. Basically once you figure it out out Guy really isn’t a problem. Basically you staly on the ground. Throw sonic booms outside of sweep range. Always keep a charge as well just in case. When Guy tries to full screen runs just flash kick him. The only problems in this matchup is his bushin flip. . It can be a little tricky to figure out the ranges. Generally if you are looking for it don’t jump back or anything. When he flips over your head then you can almost alway jump back fierce him out of everything. He also has his j.dmp elbow. This is a little tricky to deal with and was my last barrier in figuring out this matchup. But overall the elbow is slow. It will stuff out all of your anti airs which makes it annoying. But once you start to see him land (he lands really slow) just start backdashing and throwing him. Overall I would say Guy players tend to be very disrespectful in this match. They will go full force at you with all of these little gimmicks and such. Once you start countering him then it’s easy. Knowing how to counter him is the hard part, but once it’s figured out this match is simple. Again don’t rely too much on booms in this match. Guy players don’t respect your zoning. Once you establish that you know how to counter their tricks only then they will be reluctant to just bulldog you. and then you can play your usual zoning game.[/details]

-Video links:

HAKAN
-Latest tier chart: 6-4
-Popular opinion: Easy matchup
-General Gameplan:
-Crumple type: D-0
-Useful option selects:
-Useful AA?s:
-Ideal range:
-Guaranteed punishes:
----> f.mp > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
----> f.hk > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
----> c.hp > flashkick, s.hp (reversal timing)
----> c.hk > flashkick, sweep, U1 and U2 (His sweep is safe from all of these at MAX range, but it’s easily punishable even at 7/8ths max distance)
----> Oil slide > Anything and nothing. When performed MAX distance, it is unpunishable. When performed anywhere else, it is punishable with almost anything, although U2 will often whiff
-Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
----> Pro tip: Do your brest to keep a sonic boom on screen and keep him from oiling up. Oiled Hakan has more options for getting in than non-oiled. If you keep him from oiling, this will be a very easy match.
-Discussion:
-Video links:


#7

IBUKI

  • Latest tier chart: 5-5
  • Popular opinion: Hard matchup
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: A-X
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Dusker: I’ve had the most success against Ibuki just by rushing her down and keeping her in the corner. If she gets a knockdown, you’ve got a 50/50 shot at blocking the right direction, and from there, just keep blocking the mixup. It’s a guessing game, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you block her c.lp>c.lp>s.mk xx Tsumuji string, you can lk FK her right after the s.mk. Some ibukis do the c.lp>c.lp>s.mk string just out of habit.

By SonicFlash122: You just have to watch her meter. Whenever she has a stock, be VERY VERY careful about throwing booms. If I were you I wouldn’t throw any at all. The start up on that dam sliding grab shit is just to quick. But you can pretty much zone her ass out if you play good footsies.[/details]

  • Video links:

JURI

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Slight advantage Guile
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: B-0
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> Lk pinwheel > flashkick
    ----> Mk, hk, ex pinwheel > c.mp xx flashkick, s.hp, sweep, U1, U2
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

KEN

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Guile
  • General Gameplan: Ken has some decent tools for getting in and can be a pain to deal with up close. Keep him out.
    - Crumple type: A-0
  • Useful option selects: Late crouch tech
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk, s.hp, air throw, flashkick
  • Ideal range: Just around ken?s f.mk max range is ok, or take it at ¾ screen. Your s.mk is great for AA?ing at ¾ screen and is safe on whiff.
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> Close fireball > flashkick
    ----> Close f.mk > lk super
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> Counter: If you get hit by a tatsu, most of ken?s mixup after it can be stopped by a late crouch tech. Same goes for a blocked shoryu FADC.
    ----> Counter: Ken?s up close game can be scary with his kara throw. Try to learn his timing and where he likes to throw it out during his poking strings and do your best to block and tech effectively. Backdash and jumping away should take a backseat to blocking and teching.
    ----> Counter: You won?t see this much, but U2ing his fireballs at mid range is super easy to react to.
    ----> Counter: You can punish a far c.mk xx hadouken with an lk or ex flashkick in between the hits.
    ----> **Counter: **Ken?s f.mk is a quick poke with good range, but it?s also focus bait. Periodically tapping focus when he moves forward into it?s range can be effective if not abused.
    ----> **Pro tip: **Although it?s wise to never jump at ken on his wakeup, one option that?s especially good for escaping the corner is to feign a crossup j.lk, but instead empty jump and do a late crouch tech. As long as it?s slightly late, you will block a shoryu, tech if he throws, or poke if he does nothing.
    ----> Pro tip: Let me reiterate this a second time? learning how to block and tech in this matchup will help you more than anything else when he gets close. Srsly.
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

M. BISON (Dictator)

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Easy matchup? possible easiest matchup
  • General Gameplan: Bison has a rough time getting in on Guile. Play real lame, throwing booms and nailing his approaches.
    - Crumple type: D-X
  • Useful option selects: None.
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, j.mp, air throw
  • Ideal range: As long as you?re outside of his s.hk and s.mk range, your good.
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> hk/ex scissors > c.mp xx flashkick, s.hp, U1, U2
    ----> mk scissors > flashkick, c.mp xx flashkick, s.hp (tight timing)
    ----> lk scissors > nothing, he?s at +0 after you block lk sicssors.
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> FAQ: Bison?s headstomps are destroying me. I either can?t AA it, or he does the devil?s reverse and flips away. How do I stop him from spamming it? A: If your on the ground and try to AA it, the two options are an extremely early c.hp, or simply move out of the way and tag him with a quick normal like s.hp. However, with the right timing, air throw and j.mp crap all over headstomp.
    ----> Counter: EX scissors can go through sonic booms, but it?s hard for bison to get in position to land a clean EX scissors against an lp boom. Once you find the situations where he can do it clean, simply back up a little before throwing your next boom.
    ----> Counter: You can escape bison?s corner pressure with a flashkick FADC or a back air throw. Try to do this before you get into the corner though so it?s a little bit more unexpected.
    ----> Pro tip: Like against balrog, a pre-emptive s.hp can stuff scissors if you sniff one out.
    ----> Pro tip: Play it lame!
  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Branh0913
Bison vs Guile is relatively straight forward. But you do need to be careful, because it is such a bad matchup Bison players will play you very random. Bison players main goal in this matchup is to random out Guile, usually through surprise wakeup moves. I was losing this match until some people told me I just don’t play it lame enough. And this is true. You just have to lame him to the ground.

For one, you set the pace with sonic booms. Make a habit of walking behind them. This way he’ll probably jump at ranges he think are safe, and you can st.FP him, or cr.FP. Many of Bison jump-ins are cr.HPable. But there are a few he can throw out with deceptive ranges and hit boxes. Be very aware of his j.hp. If he randomly do it, it can cross you up, and you’ll eat a fat combo.

For the most part you should play footises with cr.mk and st.HP, with the ocassional backhand for good measure. Bison pressure game isn’t too much for Guile to worry about. You have superior normals to him, as st.HP is the crux of Bison’s existence. One thing you shouldn’t do is followup a AA with sonic booms. It’s a bad habit that most Guile’s have. What you should do is simply whiff a jab or a cr.lk. This way you’ll have time to react to his UNSAFE wakeup.

No need to worry too much about Bison’s pressure game either. It’s nothing to write home about. Just block and crouch tech when you see a throw coming. Be aware of his option selects though.

Again, you have to also keep in mind that Bison players love to mash on cr.lk in situations where they probably should block. If a Bison player loves to do this, cr.mp or cr.HP his ass. Make this motherfucker respect you.

Now headstomps. Well it’s easy, just walk back. That’s all. Remember, Bison really is guessing when he’s waking up against Guile. So make him pay for bad reads in guesses. Overall, you should just be playing this really minimalistic. you shouldn’t whiff much, and abuse the hell out of st.FP. Also you don’t need to jump at him at all. It’s okay to go air to air with him on occassion with j.RK or j.mk. jb.FP also work wonders on jump happy bison players.

Overall, you can just relax in the matchup. Less is more here.

By Slinkun:
Eh, I think I could conceive it as 7-3. I mean, hell I argued that point back in vanilla, and now the only thing that’s changed in that matchup is that Guile now has easier comeback ability in sonic hurricane and dictator didn’t get anything but a couple gimmicks. I will say that it’s not as easy as block and tech once the match gets up close though. It takes some decent guesswork against a real dictator player, otherwise your crouch tech will get eaten by a CH s.hp > c.lp xx scissors. That kind of stuff is what makes his tick game strong over his attack and walk speed, but it still suffers because he’s still a charge character, so walking forward kind of kills the frame trap option. Backdashing isn’t a super good option either since his c.lk > s.lk + s.hk OS will stuff it quick.

Your also pretty correct with the ambiguous crossup thing. I don’t think it’s as bad as Ryu, but only because he only has two real crossup options in j.mk and the weird-as-fuck j.hp. That j.hp can be pretty hard to guage, but it’s not as bad as Ryu’s j.hp, IMO.

I think bull dogging 9 out of 10 booms then focus dashing through the 10th is dictators best way to get in. It feels like thats all he can really do is train me to get comfortable then use that fast dash to get in. If you see it though and react well, you can normally tag him with a s.hp or b.mk (beats his crouch tech offense after the dash), so it’s still a pretty unsafe option for him.

Even when Bison is properly played though, he just loses when Guile plays lame as shit. Same thing goes for the honda match. Those guys just can’t get in.

By JeRon:
I had to come in and speak on this. The reason why Guile is the toughest match for Dictator is the fact that Dictator can NEVER jump in. You have one of the best AA’s cr fierce, an air grab and good normals/priority and a short jump (Guiles get very jump happy when Dic is sweep range as he cannot aa on reaction because of it)
Alot of people think, and this is a common strategy of Dictators to ex psycho to get in, however although rarley use the Guile player can Air grab it on good timing. Guile literally Dictates the pace of this matchup. There are two types of Bisons… The absolute rush or as someone mentioned the bison that will try and random guile out, usually involves alot of risky moves to get in. ie: unsafe jumpins, random slides psycho or ex psycho not calclutaed, and misuse of DR.
Then theres the patient calcluated Bison that will mostly block sonic boom, use calculating focuses and ex psycho’s to get in. Usually taking alot of chip as means to get in and uses spaced dr over sonic boom (strong or fierce versions) and predict the Guiles next actions after scissor kicks

The reason this match is 6.5 in guiles favor (not 7-3) is the fact that Guile can stand his ground and Dictator needs to predict the guile players EVERY move which yes every single move Guile makes, Dictator needs to respond to otherwise it can mean game. Even if its one mistake can cost him the match. Guiles players innability to throw sonic booms mid screen when Dic has ultra is what subsides the difficulty in this matchup but not by much.Top Guile players is smart enough to know the ranges to throw SB when Dic has this Ultra.[/details]

  • Video links:

#8

MAKOTO

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion:
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: A-Z
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

ROSE

  • Latest tier chart: 4-6
  • Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Rose
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: E-0
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By: Blackalpha
In regards to the rose matchup, that shit is pretty frustrating. I was playing casuals a week ago and getting beat on for a match because this guy would reflect everything and made me come to him playing his game. Jab and fierce boom speed mixup wouldnt work. And then it hit me… I just started using bazooka knee and jab booms. I would push him into the corner in about 6 seconds every round after that and won them all because he couldn’t get out and couldn’t react to this change during the matches. capitalizing on auto pilot players is always fun.

If you play a reflect heavy rose, push that bitch into the corner and don’t let her out.[/details]

  • Video links:

RUFUS

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Even
  • General Gameplan: Keep him out. Some pressure can be applied when he is meterless as well.
    - Crumple type: A-X
  • Useful option selects:
    ----> c.lk > c.lk + df.hk (punish wakeup backdash, use only when he has no EX)
    ----> c.lk + c.lp + c.mp (xx boom) (crouch tech can punish low divekicks)
    ----> c.lk + c.lp + c.hp (crouch tech can punish higher divekicks, but c.hp not safe on block)
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, df.hk, flashkick, nj.hp, air throw
  • Ideal range: Just a bit past ½ screen. Allows for punishing galactic tornado attempts through booms and easy jump punishes.
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> EX messiah kick (all follow-ups but delayed hk overhead) > U2
    ----> EX messiah kick (all follow-ups but delayed lk flip) > EX flashkick, U1, U2
    ----> S.lk > s.hk target combo > flashkick (-5 on block, s.hp punishable, but difficult)
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> Counter: If he tries to galactic tornado through a boom, you can s.hp if you have time, or neutral jump and tap hp on the way down for a combo.
    ----> Counter: A long range dive kick can be stupid easy to catch with a df.hk > backfist combo.
    ----> Counter: If you want to go air-to-air with him, air throw will normally beat out his j.hk, but once he gets ultra I?d probably stick to grounded AA?s.
    ----> Pro tip: Like ken, this is a fight where blocking and teching appropriately can take a backseat to easy and simple escape options. However, if you have a down charge when he starts divekick pressure, a flashkick FADC is a pretty good idea.
    ----> Pro tip: One risky option you can use is to create the illusion of pressing the advantage on his wakeup to bait out an EX messiah to have him waste meter or to get a U2 punish. Beware that he could instead just poke you once then start some divekick pressure. You can also jump back air throw on his wakeup to punish an EX messiah.
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

RYU

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Guile
  • General Gameplan: You can engage in a max screen fireball war, or sit a mid range focusing on AA?s and backfisting fireballs.
    - Crumple type: A-0
  • Useful option selects: None.
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.mk, s.hp, flashkick, air throw
  • Ideal range: Max screen is great for building meter, for both ultra and EX. ½ screen can be effective as well, although you would be giving him more opportunities to get in.
  • Guaranteed punishes: Sweep > U2
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> Counter: If you jump at your max j.hk range, trying to use shoryu as an AA is dangerous for Ryu, since an empty jump will cause it to whiff. However, they may choose to just have you block a c.mk xx hadouken when you land?
    ----> Counter: ?which can be lk or ex flashkicked in between the hits.
    ----> Counter: If sonic boom meets fireball, then backfist meets face.
    ----> Counter: s.mk is GREAT at about 2/3 screen as an AA. Safe from empty jump > sweep on whiff as well, unlike c.hp.
    ----> Counter: If you get him in the corner, back off a bit so if he air tatsu?s out you can punish.
    ----> Pro tip: Guile owns mid range once he has U2 stocked. This essentially kills all of Ryu?s mid range fireball pressure since you can U2 a fireball on reaction.
    ----> Pro tip: Although it?s wise to never jump at ken on his wakeup, one option that?s especially good for escaping the corner is to feign a crossup j.lk, but instead empty jump and do a late crouch tech. As long as it?s slightly late, you will block a shoryu, tech if he throws, or poke if he does nothing.
    ----> Pro tip: If Ryu scores a knockdown and has a super stocked, he may try a crossup air tatsu > hp super.
    ----> Pro tip: Play it old school. Good fireball and footsie fundamentals as well as patience are key. Never jump in if you have a life lead.
  • Discussion: PeterThe Bohemian
    

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]To beat Ryu, you need to basically become a brick wall of defense:

General Tips

  • In this match up, you will be throwing a lot of SB’s. A LOT. Like, 85% of the time, a SB will be on screen.

  • There is almost no reason to jump in on Ryu.

  • This match is won inches at a time. All your damage will be coming off a poke here, an EX SB there, a ton of chip, a couple anti-airs. If you don’t want to play a really long, drawn out game, don’t play Guile :smiley:

When your opponent is a full screen to a 4/5th of a screen away

Just keep chucking out those booms. Guile’s SB’s build almost twice as much meter as Ryu and Ken’s FB, and the improved charged time helps a lot. Throw as many SB’s as you can, but know when you’re going to have to block/jump/focus a hadouken that’s just too close to you. Be careful if you jump back to avoid the fireball because if you don’t time it right, your opponent will move the screen back and make you land on the FB.

Keep an eye out for EX FB and don’t get predictable with your EX SB’s. Once the Ryu gets to about 3/5 to 4/5th of a screen away, that’s when the game changes.

When your opponent is about 3/5 of a screen away:

Time to really pull back on the SB’s. You can’t afford to be too predictable with them because every SB from this range is a guess that your opponent won’t jump, so if he does guess right, he gets a giant jump in combo that leads to cross up city. Keep faking him out by throwing out whiffed jabs and cr.lk’s in between your SB’s to keep him on his toes. Don’t rely on SB’s so much though at this range though.

From this range, you should be making use of Guile’s good normals. cr.mk, backfist, st.hp, etc. This link explains footsies better than I ever could: sonic hurricane dot com ? Footsies Handbook

This range is great for Guile though, as long as your footsies are solid. You can keep them out with Guile’s normals, and every jump in can be stopped with one of Guile’s anti airs. KNOW when’s the proper time to use cr.hp, st.mk, df.hk, or FK. If your anti-airs are getting stuff, it’s your fault.

Watch out for hurricane kick though. At this range, your opponent can guess and punish your SB with hurricane kick. You can punish hurricane kick with cr.hp, or reset them with cr.mp and go for a dash up mix up target combo/throw/block (not really recommended, but it looks cool). If you’re really good and in just the right situation, you can auto correct U2 punish a hurricane kick that goes over you while you’re crouching.

Speaking of U2, you can punish Ryu’s FB from this range with U2. There are a couple set ups for it; there’s a thread about that somewhere else, so I won’t get into it. If your opponent ever gets hit by U2, you can start threatening U2 by buffering it and they’ll stop throwing FB’s (if they’re smart).

In your face:

Time to get a little more defensive. Let’s get one thing straight: Guile doesn’t want to be here. Guile wants Ryu far away. You want to get Ryu back to midscreen but at the same time, you can’t force it or you’re going to eat a ton of damage in the process.

Learn how to tech tick throws, get comfortable with blocking, and never, never panic. All of this is easier said than done, but it’s what you gotta do, so just start doing it. By blocking / teching everything, you’ll eventually get pushed back to midscreen, but a common mistake for a lot of Guile players is, RIGHT when they get to midscreen (after blocking a cr.mk to hadouken or after teching a throw), they throw a SB. I’ve been guilty of this too and it’s a bad habit because it’s really easy to read and even easier to punish.

By Rexell:
Max range f.mk, stand block will also make Ryu whiff c.mk just outside his range.[/details]

  • Video links:
    ----> [media=youtube]fo3MrgfsH18[/media] (Daigo x Valle)
    ----> [media=youtube]7xYLVD379aI[/media] (Lamerboi x Daigo)

#9

SAGAT

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Even / slight advantage Guile
  • General Gameplan: Old school fight. Don?t jump much, but play smart footsies with him.
    - Crumple type: D-0
  • Useful option selects: None.
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, flashkick, air throw
  • Ideal range: Max range is possible, but within your s.hp is better.
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> Counter: Sagat doesn?t have any ?perfect? blockstring. Something like c.lk > c.lk > c.lp xx tiger knee has a small gap between each attack. Flashkick FADC (U2) isn?t a bad option here, although a delayed tiger uppercut will still win out.
    ----> Counter: Don?t forget to U2 through shots!
    ---->** Pro tip:** Max range can be ok, but be wary of EX tiger shot > U2. Be smart about your booms.
    ----> Pro tip: Your footsies > Sagat?s footsies. Although tiger uppercut now does less damage, it?s still a big threat, especially when he has meter to FADC it. While keeping mind of this fact, throw in baits while pressuring with s.hp, c.mk, b.hk, close booms, backfist, and c.mp.
  • Discussion:
    Discussion

[details=Spoiler] By Emblemlord, a prominent Sagat player
Long Range

Sigh This is the most obvious part of the match and can be such a snore fest. Both chars wanna throw projectiles. Sagat has slight advantage here since he doesn’t have to charge. Guile can still hold his own. Guile is going to end up neutral jumping and jumping back a bit more to avoid taking chip. Sagat wants to gain his lead here. Guile holds his own not simply because he charges quickly, but because he has the advantage in building meter. So a poorly timed shot may mean that Sagat eats an EX boom to the face. By the same token Sagat can gain frame advantage through the use of high shots and draw out EX booms and jump over them or throw a shot to abosrob one hit then FADC the next hit to build revenge gauge. Again Sagat edges out Guile slightly here, but Guile can close the gap relatively easy with a lk+b to move forward and keep charge. Pre-charging will also help alot in this match. So Guile can do something like lp boom > precharge > b+lk > EX boom and if Sagat threw a shot more then likely he will eat one hit of the EX boom. But this is spacing dependent and it also depends on what shot Sagat threw, High or low. Ex or not. But it’s a solid way for Guile to advance and gain momentum. Sagat wants to keep the fight here if he can and gain his lead, Guile ideally would only chill here to build meter and FADC shots to gain revenge. Or both chars would want this range if they have life lead and wanna time the other one out. Sagat gains a solid advantage at this range when he has U2. After that any random ex shot that hits means good damage. Guile must respect that and be smart with booms in that situation. Common set-up for U2 for Sagat is slow shot is blocked then ex high shot to blow throw a boom then U2. Guile needs to be aware of that option and even without U2 Sagat can still do ex shot to ex shot for the juggle. It’s somewhat close but Sagat gets the nod at this range.

Mid Range

Guile starts to shine here and Sagat starts to waver. EX booms are a bigger threat at this range and can give Guile a nice chunk of damage if they hit. Sagat can expect to be blocking a bit more unless he has meter himself and can return in kind with ex shots. Both can risk a jump in but this isn’t wise. Sagat has several AA options as does Guile. But with Sagat even a successful jump in usually leads to a mere blockstring or 50/50 mix-up situation. If Guile gets overzealous with jumping or is too obvious he can expect to eat step rh x 2 so he can’t get stupid. But if he gets a hit in, Guile can do some good damage, so it’s somewhat worth it for Guile to attempt a jump in if he calls a shot or sees a pattern. At this range Sagat is almost forced to throw shots lest Guile just walk up to him. But doing so carries risk. Sagat needs to pay attention to Guile’s health, meter and recognize when he has charge or not. If Guile has U2, then it’s Guile’s advantage clearly and a bad shot means pain for the king. Still a U2 can be baited with fake shots or a high shot. Because of Sagat’s hitbox during a high shot, it often avoids the U2 altogether. Guile should be aware of this and make sure he spaces himself so that if Sagat does try to bait with high shot, he can still catch him with U2. I should mention that Sagat can kara TU through booms a this range. But not on reaction so just don’t get too predictable with boom patterns.

Close range/Footsie

Guile’s advantage here although Sagat can hold his own. If Guile is hanging around just outside of his st.hp range it can be really tough for Sagat. If Sagat tries to jump in he will get stuffed clean by cr.hp. Shot start-up can be stuffed by normals like st.hp or if Guile and Sagat both threw a projectile, Guile gets a free backfist, st.hp, st.hk, etc depending on spacing. Sitting on charge is really nasty for Sagat since then Sagat must guess between boom or normal. I well timed st.mk, cr.mp, or cr.hp can beat alot of Guiles buttons but if Guile boomed Sagat will end up taking counter hit damage more often then not. And of course Guile has his forward sobat (f+mk) to go over low shots. It’s not even a question that Guile has advantage at this range. As I said Sagat has some good buttons to fall back on namely st.mk and cr.mp buffered into shot. Both can give Guile a hard time. Guile should try to bait st.mk and then punish with st.hp or cr.mk. If Sagat insists on blocking then Guile can slow boom then walk him down, but be careful since Sagat can TU if you are walking forward or you dash after a boom. Sagat may try to risk an ex high shot to blow throw most of Guile’s options at this range, but if Guile just crouches he gets a free normal or sweep. Ex low shot is safer, but the chances of actually hitting Guile are lower since it’s not as fast in travel speed. EX Knee is a great option for Sagat during footsies though thanks to high speed and priority. It’s also extremely safe on block regardless of spacing. If blocked crouching it gives +4 on block so be aware of that Guile players. MK knee is also pretty decent during footsies as it can catch Guile’s normals and go over any booms thrown and catch Guile as Sagat comes down knocking him back. Damage is poor, but the utility of the move makes it a decent option.

Pressure game

Both have solid pressure games. Guile has a natural mix-up off of his cr.mk thanks to target combo while Sagat relies more on frame traps with cr.lk. Both have overheads as well. Guile’s is faster with less damage and Sagat’s is slower with more damage. Both have solid tech traps and ways to escape pressure. Sagat with his TU and Guile with his FK. And both can FADC them to make them safe. Not much else to say except Guile excels a bit better at keeping his pressure going in the corner thanks to slow boom frame traps. Guile can pressure for days like that. Sagat has lk tk which is +1 on block to help him continue pressure as well. And thanks to Guiles hitbox its extremely easy to space correctly. I will give Guile the edge for pressure game while Sagat is in a better place for escaping pressure since he doesn’t need charge. Guile does have a better backash though so he isn’t limited to just blocking and FK. BTW Sagat needs to be careful with strings ending in low shot. It’s -7 on block so if Guile has charge and he’s close enough it’s a free FK when low shot is blocked.

Wake-up game

Both have poor cross-ups. I mean ugh. j.lk? Seriously? Terrible. Sagat is a bit better off in this regard since not only does he have a fairly easy time doing a backwards TU to catch Guile out of his cross-up, but Guile himself is very susceptible to cross-ups. Sagat has a strong oki game thanks to meaty cr.lk. Guile can strike it with FK, but if it’s baited Sagat gets free cr.mk > HK TK for good damage. Generally it’s better for Guile to just block and watch for overhead. When Sagat is pressured it’s basically the same deal. His backdash is garbage though so he pretty much has to block alot of the time. He can TU also, so Guile has to be cautious. Since one TU and 2 bars can end the game if he isn’t careful. But more often then not a smart Sagat will just block. This opens the door for overheads, throws on wake-up and tech traps. Guile can also boom on Gat’s wake-up to set-up for easy frame traps and pressure. Both chars are solid when it comes to wake-up game although Guile is a bit worse off here then Sagat.

Overview

TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT SONIC BOOM rinse repeat. Honestly that’s like 90% of the match right there. More often then not this match is gonna be a time out unless one player gets really stupid with jump ins or predictable with projectile patterns. They both have good tools, and their specialty ranges. I’m up in the air about which Ultra is better for Sagat in this match. With U1, TU becomes more dangerous and Sagat has high comeback potential. With U2 Sagat’s advantage at full screen is unquestionable and one ex shot could win the match. I think both are good for this match IMO and it’s ultimately preference. But yeah this match is all about laming it out. Get the lead and just be lame. You can fight if you want, but why? I think Sagat does best when he knocks Guile down and then starts his oki game. That’s when I feel Sagat is most in control. For Guile I would say it’s during footsies and when Sagat is cornered. I’m still up in the air about a ratio, but overall the match feels really close to me.[/details]

  • Video links:
    ----> [media=youtube]CJ3ulPWHGqk[/media] (Daigo x Mago)
    ----> [media=youtube]CijyIDA2te8[/media] (Yoshiwo x Hishou)

SAKURA

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion:
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: A-X
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

SETH

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Slight advantage Seth
  • General Gameplan:
    - Crumple type: B-Y
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:
    ----> [media=youtube]CXbUmguc7rU[/media] (Daigo x HIROPON309)

#10

T. HAWK

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: ?Free Hawk?? possible easiest matchup
  • General Gameplan: Keep him the hell out.
    - Crumple type: D-0
  • Useful option selects:
  • Useful AA?s:
  • Ideal range:
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> Condor Dive (Poorly spaced / hits high) > anything, including U2 and df.hk
    ----> Condor Dive (Well spaced / hits lower) > backfist, flashkick, U2, etc.
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By SiYkO: If you react to him jumping at the correct range with jumpforward -> airthrow, it does beat all of his air options AFAIK. Maybe instant condor dive would beat it, I’m not sure, I can only speak from experience - but I have played against very good T Hawks.

Blocking the condor dive is great, of course, but it’s a guessing game - if he doesn’t do condor dive then you’re stuck blocking a jumpin, and guess what - you just let T.Hawk get inside. The entire point of the match is to keep T Hawk OFF you as long as possible - and the reason it’s a huge favor to Guile is because he has the tools to do just that.

Generally he’s going to jumpin, empty jump, or condor dive. If you AA you might be able to beat both a jumpin or empty jump, but the timing will be off to beat condor dive. Blocking beats condor dive but loses to the others. Air throw beats all 3.[/details]

  • Video links:

VEGA (Claw)

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Easy matchup
  • General Gameplan: Throw booms, punish approaches, don?t get hit by gimmicks.
    - Crumple type: E-0
  • Useful option selects: c.lk > f.lk + f.hp (Tags wakeup backdash)
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, j.hk, j.hp, air throw, flashkick, focus attack
  • Ideal range: Start are ¾ to max screen and use boom to make him use some of his unsafer approaches, like wall dive. Also, if you have frame advantage, you can do some fun stuff to him while close.
  • Guaranteed punishes: Sky High Claw > anything, including U2
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> FAQ: How do I stop him from spamming walldives? A: At a low level, this can be handled by simply jumping forward or back and hitting a normal like j.hk or j.hp, or air throwing. Later, you should mix this up with grounded FA > dash, close s.hk, and neutral jump hp. If he?s just doing it on the opposite side of the screen to build meter, try tagging him with an EX boom.
    ----> FAQ: How do I escape the Izuna Drop loop? A: Dashing in either direction, using wakeup focus, or a late flashkick can get you out. Depends on spacing on timing of his walldive.
    ----> Counter: If he knocks you down and starts going for ground based pressure, using late crouch tech is a better option than wakeup flashkick which may leave you open for punishment if he decides to bait it with a flip.
    ----> Counter: If he?s really good at landing Izuna Drop, throwing in a dash or two before you FA can throw off his spacing.
    ----> Counter: His defensive flips are painfully punishable. Learn to recognize them and punish with a backfist or sweep on reaction.
    ----> Counter: Claw has some great pokes. One nice move that comes into play in this matchup is b.mk. Inside of claw?s c.mp range, you can throw out b.mk to hit the tip of his claw. It hits pretty clean more often than not.
    ----> Pro tip: You can rush claw down pretty effectively if you have an lp boom on the screen and do some ryu-esque pressure. Just watch out for his backdash > cosmic heel (df.hk hopkick) setup, as well as using neutral jumps to change the flow in his favor.
    ----> Pro tip: If claw is using U1 and you are max screen, you can continuously throw lp booms safely without fear of him landing U1 as long as he?s blocking your booms. You really do recover that fast.
  • Discussion:
  • Video links:

ZANGIEF

  • Latest tier chart: 6-4
  • Popular opinion: Slight advantage Guile
  • General Gameplan: Keep him the hell out.
    - Crumple type: D-0
  • Useful option selects: None.
  • Useful AA?s: c.hp, s.hp, df.hk, j.hp, j.hk, nj.hp, flashkick, air throw, U2
  • Ideal range: Outside of max EX greenhand range is a very good place to be. Here you can counter with your air-to-airs after throwing a boom.
  • Guaranteed punishes:
    ----> Any non-EX greenhand > throw or c.mp xx flashkick
    ----> EX greenhand > throw, c.mp xx flashkick, s.hp xx boom, U1, U2
    ----> EX greenhand xx FADC > hk flashkick
  • Effective counters / pro tips / FAQ:
    ----> FAQ: How do I get out of gief?s wakeup game? A: If he can?t combo c.lk?s consistently, you can mash backdash after you block the initial crossup attack. If he can, all you can pretty much do is guess when to jump out. Also, wakeup lk super can counter his crossup pretty nice.
    ----> Counter: Continuing on the above thought, think about what gief wants to go for. If you have a big life lead and he has an ultra stocked, guess what he probably wants to go for?
    ----> Counter: Gief has some great jumping attacks. His j.hp, j.mk, early j.mp, and the dreaded short empty jump > SPD can counter your anti-airs effectively. Flashkick and U2, however, beat all of these. However, if you just threw a boom and need to AA him, mix up your anti-airs with heavy use of your air-to-airs (if you have time to throw them out)
    ----> Pro tip: You can actually apply a bit of pressure on gief?s wakeup. Meaty c.lk can stuff non-EX SPDs and lariats, while nj.hp has the odd ability of stuffing AA lariats.
    ----> Pro tip: In general, nj.hp is a great thing to just ?throw out there? a lot. It beats out 95% of his jumps and his only real counter is his s.hk.
  • Discussion:

Discussion

[details=Spoiler]By Slinkun: I also find against gief that he has more incentive to jump in when your walking back, since many of your grounded normal AA options can trade or get beat. I try to hold db ALOT in this match. I try to hold that down charge as much as possible since flashkick is really solid in this match. When I throw a boom, I try to make it strait from db instead of going to a standing position. This makes it a guessing game in your favor instead of his. I also like to do nothing alot in this match, or stck to purely safe stuff. I’ll hold db a bit, see how he reacts, maybe throw out a couple crouching feints or poke with c.mk, then jump back, hope he takes the bait, grab a charge during the jump, and flashkick him.

I also imagine now that you can walk back from a distance and U2 a jumpin.

By my_name_is_better: Aside from Cr.hp and Cr.mk, there is no need to crouch against gief when zoning. Just move backward and control the pace of the match, mobility > Flash kick/sitting close to gief. Although I still acknowledge the light flash kick invincibility.

Gief got shafted as we all know, lariat can be sweeped or Back fisted much easier, or sonic hurricaned if timed well. shoot sonic booms and study his methods of closing in, try to see a pattern. TAKE YOUR TIME, the match is always at your grip until you get knocked down, so take it easy, create your desireable space, and start your zoning outside of his EX green hand range. Against his jump ins above sonic booms, mix it up with air throw (direction towards the nearest corner, so you can be away from danger), Cr.hp, St.Hp, heck even back fist and ofcourse the underrated St.mk, and light/EX flash kick if charged. You have no need of rushing him down (why would you :confused: ?), just stay away from him. Once you hit the corner, he would have his ultra meter probably because he ate/focused lots of sonic booms, and if he has ultra 2, try to avoid air throwing or flash kicking his jump ins. Find an opening and escape the corner.

Once you (hopfully) escaped the corner, the match is probably yours for the taking if you damaged zangief enough (50% of his health should atleast been wasted, otherwise you messed up some punished, about 60% and above is my average damage dealt to gief after one corner run), and by now you should have swallowed up some pokes from gief and gained your ultra 2 (U2 is the go to ultra for many guile players… is it?), so now you have a stronger AA, better footsie threat and a safe (-5 or -4 frame advantage at a range where gief can not punish you) chip damage of 100 ( I guess ) at your disposel.

I know that my strategy involves lots of running away and avoiding risks (basically my strategy against any character :p), but thats the obvious road against gief (from my limited experiences online), my golden rule is to take it easy, don’t panic, keep the control and never get knocked down :D.

By Jazz:
To start off, I think this matchup has improved significantly. from vanilla to super, nothing noteworthy was changed about gief aside from U2. The only changes he received were damage nerfs and some hitbox changes, so the character has no additional combo potential or stuff like that. With this in mind, the reduced 100 hp and reduced damage on ex gh, gh, etc make this match much more fair. Couple that with Guile’s new found normal “power,” and you have yourself what, imo, is a 5.5 (in gief’s favor), if not 5/5 matchup.

Ultra Selection: This is going to be the big topic of debate among Guile PLayers concerning this matchup. While Sonic Hurricane and Flash Explosion both have their pros and cons in this matchup, I am a firm believer that Flash Explosion is the way to go. Here is my breakdown:

Sonic Hurricane: The only true use of SH in this matchup is either to be used as chip, to be used to counter a far jump in, or to be used after fk fadc in a combo.
Flash Explosion: If timed right, FE can save your ass from the terrible zangief crossup oki game, can take away his ability to jump within half screen (which is where he is most dangerous aerially; see: j. mk) and the DAMAGE is nice…

The way I look at it, generally,the only time when you are going to connect with a “raw” ultra (i.e. full/no combo/counter ultra etc) is when zangief is either jumping, or you have blocked a green hand. You have to recall that Gief still has 100 hp more than you, so you have to make your hits count. that already makes U1 look nice. One should also note that activating raw u2 for chip, gief can ex gh you through it, and he suffers no damage. Also consider the fact that the main use of U2, to counter far jump ins, is already solved in this matchup by backfist, which I will touch on later. Contrast these facts with U1’s ability to (potentially) save you from gief’s crossup games on wakeup. the damage is greater and more legit, and it counters his close jump ins, which is what you need to counter in this matchup. In conclusion, U1 is still the way to go.
(Slinkun note: IMO U2 is way better)

Now to the fight in general:

The nature of this fight has not changed since vanilla, but Guile’s improved normals, and gief’s reduced bullshit make this fight much more bearable. As a Guile player, and this goes double for this particular matchup, you NEED excellent reactions, anticipation, and mental fortitude. Ask yourself, why is Dagger G, Fuson, or any other great Guile so good? Its because they possess these qualities that are highlighted in this match. You have to be able to anticipate when he wants to tick throw, when he wants to combo into green hand, and you have to see it fast. You have to see whether he is going to splash, or whether he is going to drop knees…and you have to see it FAST.

To begin, know that there are a variety of attacks that you will use in this fight. However, your go to moves are st. fierce, backfist, cr. forward, cr. fierce. and of course, sonic boom. You will use these attacks more than any others I assure you.

Sonic Boom is the tempo control for this fight, and especially in the beginning, when no one has meter. Most Giefs approach the opening by going fullscreen and lariating through booms for a while to build meter. It is your job to “tell” the gief player that he is not going to sit his bitch ass over there and build meter then come in and rape. Its your job to ensure that you build meter faster than he does…because this match is ALL about meter. I think that meter control and controlling your opponent’s meter defines guile vs gief. It all revolves around ex green hand. Good giefs are able to ex. green hands ANYTHING on reaction. That said, your goals should be to A) ensure that Gief only gets super meter from you hitting him (lol) and B) you can make Gief WASTE THAT PRECIOUS METER >:D You must know that once gief is mid screen, he WANTS you to boom, st. fierce, anything, so he can sap you with ex gh into the knockdown and then the shenanigans begin. Thus, you want to get closer than fullscreen, and when gief lariats through boom, backfist him with the tip of the knuckle. this not only damages him, gets you meter, but it shows the gief that he cant just wait it out and gain meter. It puts pressure on him to come to you, and , that is what you want (this is especially true if they have NO METER). Backfisting giefs out of mid to 3/4 screen lariats is huge in terms of building confidence and “meterical advantage”.

The scariest part of this match is when gief is walking towards you with meter stocked. every poke you throw to stop him is a risk, so you have to be smart about what you do. its a bad idea to get predictable with booms, as you will get ex gh’d. try faking out the gief if their reactions are good, by feinting jabs, or by walking backwards for an extended period of time, then suddenly jerking forward. this can be misread as a boom, and if he bites, you get a free blocked ex gh to do as you please.

in terms of punishing blocked ex. gh, i think you should always go for jab jab fierce if you can, or reversal ultra if you have it stocked. Something else to consider is if Gief has you cornered and you block ex. gh, it might be worth it to throw him in the corner and start running away again. the point is, he wasted a bar and you have plenty of options. Even better, is if you can get him to fadc a blocked gh. sure, you didn’t get any damage, but that fool just wasted 3 bars (lol) !
(Slinkun note: I wouldn?t recommend the s.lp > s.hp link in this way. Combo into a flashkick with a simple c.mp, or s.hp xx boom)
The truth is, when gief is full screen, the best option he has is to fadc through boom. this is because if he jumps over a boom, you should use your amazing long range anti-air…the backfist. it beats most aerials gief has long range, sans j. fierce.

st. fierce, as always, beats most of gief’s ground options sans st. strong, which trades sometimes.

As noted by Yoshiwo, guile’s nj fierce is amazing in this matchup. it beats gief j. mk and lariat on wakeup. However, be sure to mix it up, becuase if you get too predictable with it, gief can st. jab you or cr. strong you out of it on wakeup. Dont spam it.

You should be careful to stand your ground as long as possible, and fight standing or crouching in the same spot for as long as possible. the longer you can drage the trek across the stage, the better. this is because once you are cornered, gief’s potential gets much higher.

Stuff to watch out for:
If gief hits you with j. fierce (not splash) from max range, it can either be a tick throw or a ex. gh. You need fast reactions to see it and IFC Zang always gets me with this You have to pay attention, because if you see him briefly crouch right after the j. fierce, you know he is doing the 360 motion. This happens almost instantly but there is a split second for you to see the setup develop.[/details]

  • Video links:
    ----> [media=youtube]DZfaDCq9ocw[/media] (Yoshiwo x Itabashi)

#11

(Reserved8)


#12

Ok, I still have a lot of cleaning up to do here in order to tidy this up, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. Until then, this is about all the matchup info I could find here, but as you can see there is quite a lot missing. As I mentioned, I still have a bit of cleaning to do, a few punishes I need to add, some more “spoiler” boxes, etc. etc.

I’d appreciate for everyone to verify the info for the console characters and the new characters and maybe even do a writeup for one of the matchups without one if you feel like you have the know-how about the matchup. I’d also appreciate, since I can’t go to youtube, one or two vids per matchup that would illustrate a “textbook” fight. Preferrably no videos with just a Guile beasting a scrub, and preferrably with nothing too flashy. The Guile doesn’t even have to win really, it just needs to show an idea of how the matchup is supposed to be played.

Thanks.


#13

I like what you have done so far. But hopefully this thread get too messy when everybody has something of value to post up.

I have a few vids on my replay channel that COULD be worth looking at, some matches I win where things got really tense and others when i lost. I guess others are welcome post any links to vids to get an idea of how to play a matchup.

Appreciate the work done despoite of the limited time you have :slight_smile:


#14

Slinkun, I love you. This is exactly what this forum needed. Good job man. We just need to get some videos up with some illustrations, and we’re golden.


#15

[media=youtube]DZfaDCq9ocw[/media]

This Itabashi vs Yoshio match posted by Hoppa really shows what nj.hp does in the Gief matchup. I would say it should be worth including it here.


#16

Random note on jumping in on Abel’s wakeup. If Abel decides to do a wakeup Breathless on your jump in, you actually have enough time to charge a fk as soon as you land. Also, Abel’s Breathless is a 8 frame startup. :slight_smile:


#17

Just a quick note, U2 is not a guaranteed punish on a blocked messiah. Delayed hk follow up (overhead) will hop over Guile.


#18

Excellent work, Slinkun. Here are several video links.

[media=youtube]fo3MrgfsH18[/media]

[media=youtube]7xYLVD379aI[/media]

[media=youtube]CJ3ulPWHGqk[/media]

[media=youtube]CXbUmguc7rU[/media]

[media=youtube]DCp4meJ2dws[/media]

[media=youtube]m1PubNIlzwI[/media]

[media=youtube]Wi-Wc–7vug[/media]

[media=youtube]mEck6VJns00[/media]

[media=youtube]ajWAKYwB_VA[/media]

[media=youtube]pJ1Dh5bh-uk[/media]


#19

I would prefer to only have about 2-3 videos per character and preferably none with the same players. Among those ibuki vids, would you say there is a “best” one? Also, just because I can’t view them and I’m paranoid of online, are those online vids legit?


#20

In Vanilla, Gief’s punch lariat is also very punishable with df.hk from quite a distance away, which is just slightly nearer than using backfist. Guile’s boot would hit Gief’s fists during his recovery. But you’ll have to be more accurate with your spacing if Gief moves around during lariat. I would think df.hk would punish lariats better in Super since it’s been buffed.

S.hk is also a good punish for lariat and lets you keep back charge at times when you don’t need to walk towards him to punish.

If Gief does punch lariat at about 3/4 screen to avoid a jab boom, Guile can jump forward and hit hk early to hit his head and go into 2 x far s.hp. Or into a full combo if he’s slightly nearer.

On whiff GHs or EX GHs, 2 x far s.hp also punishes Gief very well since most of the time Gief whiffs is because Guile is walking back. 2 x far s.hp when done meaty during Gief’s wakeup also stuffs a lot of his options. He’ll get hit most like if he tries to reversal you. The only reliable reversal he can use which hits most of the time is EX SPD.

You can throw Gief during startup of his lariat too. I don’t know whether it’s the punch or kick version but it should be the punch version.