SSFIV: How do I stop respecting the wake-up and start punishing?


#1

Apparently, I respect the wake-up of my opponent too much. I expect them to reversal too often and, most times, they get away scott free and are able to mount their offensive right away.

I know of several things I can do to start punishing, and I know some set-ups. But I’m having a really hard time implementing them. There are some vids of me playing on the Live stream - it may be easier to notice through these than it is through my words:

NVM - those videos are no longer there…unless somebody can dig them up, perhaps.

Justin.tv - Shoryuken Live on XBL - Videos

Justin.tv - Shoryuken Live on XBL - Videos

They were recorded live on November 9th around 3-6am in the morning.


#2

I get how you feel, as this used to happen a lot to me.

I find a few things useful when considering the mixup game:

  • If you’re going to sit somewhere not moving, do it right on top of them, that way, there are more options for your mixup than if you give them space where they’re at no risk of being thrown.

  • Just be right on top of them most of the time on their wake-up in general. Unless you’re going to do an ambiguous cross-up, or your character has a fast enough walk speed so you can pace back and forth, be right on top of em. Walk forwards whilst they’re down, if you’ve got enough time, dash forward a few times so you can edge them closer to the corner, and then throw them once, then go for maybe an over-head, or a hit confirm that starts with a low attack so if they don’t block it low because of the fear of an overhead, then you get a free combo.

  • Generally, don’t be afraid of being reversed, just make your mixups varied in the first place, and if you keep scoring knockdowns every now and again, throw in one where you just bait the reversal and you just do a slightly delayed crouch tech at the same time. So if they reversal, they must burn meter to make it safe, and if they go to throw you, you tech. That late crouch tech can also lead into a block string into other pressure and more knockdown opportunity.

  • Sure, if they’ve got 2 bars of meter and an ultra stocked, it’s good to respect that, at which point it may be a good time to focus on really late, ambiguous jump-ins so that are hard to reverse.

  • Back dashing is pretty good too IMO, depending on character.

Generally, I have too little respect for my opponents wake up, and it gets me into trouble a lot. I love to apply pressure on wakeup, and most of the times I will do that with things like Fei’s overhead, ambiguous jump ins, cl.LP xx command crab, low blockstrings, throw etc, but I just keep going at it and they catch onto it and reverse me.

As good as it is to play safe, or to play all out, you’ve gotta find that balance in between where you’re opponent can either risk getting thrown by playing safe, or risk eating a full damage punish because they DP’d and guessed wrong. Sure you can add frame traps and option selects in there too to make it easier for you, but I have no idea about Zangief’s if you do play him :slight_smile:

Do you play Gief BTW?


#3

One quick tip for Gief is to learn how to use the knees (in air - down + light kick). Jumping over your opponent with the right timing during wakeup makes a reversal dragonpunch go the wrong way. Then when you use the knees, it hits the opponent in the back, and stuffs their reversal. Try it out in training mode to get the timing down.


#4

Do you play Gief? After a 360+K or an EX green hand you can do a crossup splash or knees that can’t be reversal DP’d.

If you do offense you will get DP’d. It’s inevitable. Just try to reduce it. A lot of it comes down to knowing your opponent’s mindset.

Punish with something like close 360+K grab (best punish), s.lk xx EX Green Hand, or hp SPD/ultra (max damage)


#5

Actually, if you are playing mainly online, you are doing a GREAT JUSTICE by respecting the other player’s wakeup. Reasons being:

?Players online do not AND I REPEAT DO NOT hesitate to mash DP/throw/ultra/super/command grab/reversal on wakeup
?Unfortunately, SF4 is actually designed to where the person waking up, in some cases, has an inherant advantage against the aggressor, depending on his opponent
?You can use this to your advantage to condition your opponent to think you are going to back off, and then dash forward and throw, or throw out a meaty option and punish their lazy wakeup game.

One thing I was told and never forgot, was that on SSF4 online, never Overestimate your opponent’s abilities. Some players in this game absolutely suck at waking up, and reversals are their “get-out-of-jail-free card”.

I’d say the best way to stop respecting wakeups is by mixing up your options. Sometimes walk-up throw, or crossup/meaty jabshort pressure, sometimes do NOTHING, etc. By mixing up your offense, your opponent will have to guess on what to do, and once he guesses wrong, punish his poor judgement.

I don’t respect any players I fight online until they prove to me that I’ve made a mistake in underestimating them. Then I switch up my gameplan. But until then, I’m gonna play my game, not yours.


#6

Wait until a split second (like, 5 frames, since that covers the startup of most DPs) after your opponent gets up to do whatever it is you want to do. If they’re going to DP it’s 99% going to be as a reversal (especially if they’re a bad player) so take advantage of that. Attacks in SF4 have so few active frames generally that you’re not rewarded for doing meaties anyway, so why risk it? This way if they DP at the earliest possible opportunity you block, otherwise you still get to do what you want anyway. To quote Seth Killian:

Take advantage of your own unpredictability and your opponent’s lack of it. You’re going to get hit by wakeup throws occasionally but, unless they’re really smart with it, doing wakeup throw is such a bad long-term strategy that you shouldn’t have any trouble beating those people unless they’re just straight-up better than you.


#7

Awesome advice there.


#8

As someone who’s had a similar problem for a long time, I can say that poptags advice is golden. I pretty much start every match assuming my opponent will reversal on wake-up and go from there. If they like to do it, let it whiff and make them think it’s always a bad idea, then start attacking them on wakeup. Unfortunately some players literally never stop doing it, but in that case just keep knocking them down again until they’re dead.