SSFIVAE: How do i deal with throws?


#1

Throws in this game seem nearly impossible for me to deal with. What are the exact mechanics to throws? People even do throws on me while I am attacking! I would do EX pinwheel and they would grab me out of it, this is very frustrating! =[

I am brand new to SSF4, I just got it when the AE disc came out. Anyway, I am getting a few wins online, but when people throw me once, I think “Dude, that is all they need to do to beat me.” I guess people assume I am smarter than that so they don’t abuse it. However one guy caught on and literally threw me for an entire round and took the victory.

What am I supposed to do against throws? They seem way to fast to tech. And when I try to predict, I still get thrown. How do you properly tech a throw?

And to add to that, how do you fight grapple characters? because some Zangief kept using EX command grabs to kill me. Thanks guys.


GRABBING
#2

Try to anticipate throws. If you notice a pattern in the way your opponent plays his/her character, take advantage of it. Throws happen a lot during blockstrings and blocked jump-ins. To tech a throw, just throw.

There is an option select called crouch teching that is universal for every character. This will ground your defense, and allow you to better analyze your opponents play style mid-match.

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#3

Best fucking video series ever, shame he stopped making SF vids.


#4

yeah, i have seen that video, but I did not really understand it very well. From what I got if you hold DB and mash lp+Lk, it will either throw out low kicks if there is a gap in a blockstring, automatically block low attacks, or automatically tech throw right?

Well, when you tech throws, when exactly are you suppossed to do it? While the opponent is reach for you? The instant they grap you?


#5

Basic explanation: Listen to your opponent, watch him. Does he have a timing to his attacks? When you block, press throw almost at the same exact time he hits you, and do it at the rhythm he does it. If he randomly decides to throw instead of attack, you’ll stop the throw, thats a throwtech*

The way I sort of learned it, was to think of pushblocking in Marvel/MvC3, except by pressing throw at the speed theyre hitting me.

Anyway, every opponent is different, try to learn every new opponent, after the first round, you should be ready for throws, unless they have CRAZY random mixup.


#6

This comes down to experience ultimately, no one has the right answer.


#7

Hmmm…I never thought of doing the pushblock thing at the same time they attack… I’ve always been mashing it. Alright, I’ll give that a shot. Thanks guys!


#8

The reason you dont mash throw while being hit, is for two reasons, if you do it too early, your throw will come out and try to connect with your opponent, and he will hit you. You essentially want to time pressing throw WHILE being hit, like pushblocking in Marvel. Now, if you get used to doing this, its pretty safe until people start using frame traps.

Frame traps are delayed attacks that are being blocked, but give you just enough time to attack… so that when your crouch teching, you’ll accidentally press throw while you think your about to be hit, and they hit you.

Some characters are really good at this, twins have good frame traps, Gen does, Cody does… but anyone can do that as well as tick throw, if they time their attacks right.

If someone is hitting you though, they have no reason to tick throw unless they dont think they can actually perform their combos.

And also, you probably dont need to crouch tech if you block so much that your opponent isnt close enough to throw you anymore.

This is also character specific, to kara throws. Kara throws are something a select few characters can do to throw at a longer range. Ken has -the- best kara throw in the game, and Oni also has nearly as good as a kara throw as well… not sure about the rest.

Anyway, if your just losing to a friend, learn crouch teching, and see if you can figure it out, if your online, use my advice on teching at your opponents rhythm. If you get hit while doing it, either your doing it wrong/too quickly or your opponent is doing frame traps.

Its a timing thing man, dont let all this technical stuff get to ya, I just like to be thorough with my explanations :wink:


#9

Don’t mash crouch tech, as it can become a very bad habit that will make you very susceptible to counterhit setups and dive kicks. Reacting to the startup animation of your opponent’s next move and pressing crouch tech can allow you to still block in time if they throw out another move instead of a grab. There’s also the “late” grab tech, where you tech the grab at the last possible frame (there’s a 3 frame window to tech throws), so if your opponent goes for a counterhit setup with a gap of 1-2 frames, then you will still be able to block their next move.

I recall a video where Mike Ross explained that he learned how to tech grabs in SF4 by watching videos over and over where people are getting thrown until he memorized what the startup animation of the grabs looked like so that he can react against it with grab tech.

Edit: Also, if your opponent is going for tick throws too often, you always have the option of escaping the tick throw setups by jumping or back dashing, and you can beat them with invulnerable reversals and moves that put you in an airborne state during startup. However, aside from invulnerable reversals and to a certain extent back dashes, all of these options can be beat by counterhit setups.


#10

Don’t corrupt your mind with option select, that’s just another excuse for someone to mash away. All I can say is that grabs can’t be teched on reaction and that require you to predict it pressing it at the same time. Don’t hold back to block and mash out attacks at the same time as well, you should only block when you need to. I favored games with block buttons which apparently is better anyways. Time to time I fall for kara grabs or sometimes I tend to get a bit jumpy if the other person uses command grabs a lot but nothing more.


#11

Part of reacting is predicting that your opponent is going to do the move you are reacting to. I don’t think it’s possible to react with the proper counter to every move without being a cpu, but you’re right, grab techs are almost always going to be used in prediction to a tick throw setup, but you do have a 3 frame window after they input their grab to tech it.


#12

Long, technical post ahead:

To understand the answers to some of your questions about throws, you need to have a rough idea of how invincibility works in this game. Simply put, there are 3 types of invincibility - hit, throw and projectile. A (part of a) move can have any of those attributes, or none of them. This also applies to character states (eg. grounded vs aerial). Just because part of a move is invincible to hits, it doesn’t mean it’s invincible to throws (or projectiles) and vice versa. eg. Blanka’s EX ball is invincible to projectiles and throws, but he can be hit out of it. Viper’s HP Thunder Knuckle has startup invincibility against hits, but she can be thrown out of it. The same goes for Juri’s EX Pin Wheel.

Grounded normal moves have no ground throw invincibility, which means that if a normal move and a throw “collide”, the throw will always win (provided that it’s in range, eg. you can’t perform a normal throw on Dhalsim by grabbing his outstretched limbs). When it comes to command throws, the general rule is that command throws beat normal throws, which means if these two collide, the command throw will win. Now as I said, it’s a general rule, but again it comes down to the what type of invincibility the command throw has. Eg. Abel’s EX Tornado Throw is a command grab, but it does not have throw invincibility, which means he can be thrown out of it.

(Note that it’s a bit more technical than this - you have to take into account startup and active frame invincibility - but that’s roughly how it works)

Grounded normal throws themselves have a startup of 3 frames and can be teched at any point from the 4th to the 10th frame (Gouken’s back throw is a special case, but it’s not important for this discussion). Throws and throw teching are also two of the highest priority moves in the game, meaning that if you input something that has a throw/throw tech command (lk + lp) the throw/tech takes precedence most other things if your character is in a state to perform it. eg. If, as Akuma, you do QCF + lk + lp on the ground, he will attempt a throw. If you do it in the air, he will perform an air fireball instead because he doesn’t have an air throw.

Armed with this information, it should be clear why mashing crouch tech is not really a good idea in most cases. If you happen to crouch tech slightly earlier, at the same time or even several frames later than the throw starts up, the throw will always win. Since you can only tech throws on or after the 3rd frame (I forget which), inputting crouch tech will not execute the tech because there is no throw to tech yet, so you get a normal move instead, and because normal moves don’t have throw invincibility, you end up getting thrown. Also, some characters’ pressure strings have slight gaps that allow you to perform a move, but the gap isn’t big enough to allow the move to connect, so the next move in the string counter-hit your character if you are mashing crouch tech or any other non-invincible move (this is typically known as a frame trap).

The preferred method of using crouch tech is using a technique called delayed crouch tech. Since throws basically have a 7 frame window to tech them, the idea is to try to tech as late as possible. This basically helps you defend against narrow frame traps (pressure strings with small gaps in them) and throws at the same time. Note though that there’s nothing stopping your opponent from delaying his attacks a bit longer to be able to hit/throw you out of even a delayed crouch tech.

To get a feel for the timing of a delayed crouch tech, have a Ken or Ryu dummy do neutral jump in front of you, and then throw you as soon as they land. Then in the same recording, let them do a neutral jump and but input this command :f::d::df: lk + lp. This will result in a dragon punch, or it will tech a throw if you try to throw them as soon as they land. To defend against this, use delayed crouch teching. In the first case, you’ll tech a throw, in the second case, you’ll block the Dragon Punch. If you are getting thrown, you’re teching too late. If you get hit by the Dragon Punch, you’re crouch teching too early. In practice, delayed crouch teching feels similar to tapping tech in slightly rhythm to your opponent’s block string, but just delayed a tiny bit. It’s also worth noting that the way to “react” to throws is to react to the opponent’s standing walking/animation (if they’re doing a low block string) and then preparing to use a delayed tech. It’s virtually impossible to consistently react to the actual throw animation itself.

You can also use the same training dummy technique for delayed standing tech. If the dummy ends up teching your throw in either case, you’re doing it too early. Note that there’s no real disadvantage to this in a match, except that if the opponent jumps lands out of range you’ll be left wide open for a punish when your throw whiffs (this includes them being able to counter-throw you because in many cases a whiffed throw increases the size of your throwable hitbox).

To effectively use standing tech, you have to know which of your opponent’s pressure strings don’t have low moves after the first attack. Basically, you perform a delayed crouch tech after the first attack and then immediately stand and tech. If they don’t throw, you’ll block the next move. If they do, you’ll tech it, and the big benefit is that even if you do it too early you won’t get thrown. Instead, they’ll end up teching your throw (just as with the training mode example). Another big plus is that if they are really close to you and there’s a gap between their attacks, you’ll throw them out of their next move (normal moves don’t have throw invincibility, remember?). Note that some characters have ways of beating this though, so take care when using it. Eg. After this technique was discovered, Japanese Ryu players started using cr.lk xx cr.lk as a block string starter instead of cr.lk xx cr.lp to catch opponents who tried to stand and tech after the first attack. Even so, standing tech is a big part of high level play especially against characters who can bully you with strong frame traps (eg. Dudley, Cody).


Throw Tech Standing vs Throw Tech Crouching
#13

More specifically, both HP Thunder Knuckle and “EX Pinwheel” are completely invincible for the first 6 frames of their startup, and they become active on the same frame that they lose invincibility. Because of this, they can trade with attacks that are timed correctly. However, when a hit “trades” with a throw, the throw always wins. If someone is throwing you with this timing on your wakeup, it means they’re not attacking you for the first 5-6 frames of your wakeup, so you have time to either push them out with a poke such as a crouching LK or beat their throw attempt with a delayed invincible reversal or an airborne move (Juri has close MK that is airborne from frame 1 and close HP that is airborne from frame 3).


#14

I’d say that for a complete beginner, just start concentrating on throwing every time that you see an opening. If you get used to doing this, you’ll do more damage yourself, and you’ll also wind up teching your opponents throws when they have the same idea.


#15

The more you play, the more you start to develop a ‘feel’ for when people like to throw.


#16

If grabs allowed time to react it wouldn’t require pressing buttons at the same time. That is why your required to predict every grab. The only guy who made any sense was branned a bot and banned instantly without warning?

In the sense I don’t get banned by some douche bag with a stick up his ass, I’ll just say I disagree with Joe Smoe. All you need to do is practice, I won’t say anything else, but if you still suck is because you didn’t practice enough.


#17

You’ll learn with experience. I was in the same situation too back when i first played.


#18

Thanks for all your responses guys. I guess I’ll keep it simple for now and just throw tech once i see them walk towards me. I’ll do what you said ilicit and practice on the training dummy so i don;t just mash.

Some characters just have so much range on normal throws though. And Juri (the character I play) seems to have low range and i can;t figure out how to kara throw.

I’m suppossed to push medium P and then throw right? before the animation comes out? how is that possible?


#19

You have to “plink” it. It’s like pressing mp and throw at the same time but you let your finger hit the mp first. Here’s a vid that shows how to do it with Ken.

It’s the same with Juri, except you use mp instead of mk.


#20

I just recently became a master of teching, but i use to be really bad just like you. So his what made me better. Option select throw. Dont mash throw, just everytime ur opponent is in range to throw an he hits u an u block press throw, u will b in block stun so no moves should come out, there is a rythem to this an u just have to learn that over time but just dont mash it. Say he jumps in and low kicks you three times, first press after the jump in kick hits then after the first low kick an so on. Helped me alot.