ST: counter characters


#1

ST is known for its rigid counter system, and being something of an ST novice, I wanted to know more about it, so I decided to start a discussion on who counters who and why.

I guess I’ll get the ball rolling. How exactly does Honda counter Bison?


#2

Here is my 2 cents:

OG Ken Counters Honda
Dhalsim Counters Zangief
Zangief Counters T-Hawk
OG Sagat Counters Ryu, Ken

I think the rest of them matchups can go either way depending on how you play. The worst case counters I think is OG Ken vs Honda, and Dhalsim vs Gief.


#3

Honda is good against nearly everyone without a projectile, for pretty much the same reasons.

His headbutt is safe and is good anti-ground and anti-air, brain dead easy to use. Hard to poke him.

In particular against Bison, Bison has trouble using the scissor kicks because if blocked he can get Ohichi’d or he can get headbutted out of it. Bison doesn’t have a good reversal move, which means if he gets knocked over he is at the mercy of various Ohichi ticks. Bison’s throw games become a lot more risky.

Honda is pretty good against nearly everyone without a projectile. I guess Balrog is ok against him (so I hear, I have no idea) but most other guys have problems…


#4

I would say guile vs. vega… cause it should be a free win for vega… just my two cents… oh yeah and balrog boxer counters everyone :lol:


#5

Ahem…
First of all, Dhalsim beats everyoneif you can be precise in using him properly.
Super Turbo does have a rigid counter system.
Me being the experience player that I am, I don’t think you would mind me putting my 2 cents in.

Super Turbo is a game that has to do with turtleing all the time, wait until your opponent is open and then strike as fast as possible, because if you don’t (I think you know what happens next.)

For me since I paly against top tier players, I just have to try and fake out my opponent. That’s all.
:smiley:


#6

I thought ST was more aggressive playing involved (well i know its more aggressive then that CVS2 crap lol)


#7

True so true

remember flash g’s honda:frowning: :frowning:


#8

I dont think old sagat counters ryu or ken. I think ryu vs sagat is a good match up acctualy.


#9

I think rather then saying a beats b [period] we should probably cite some reasons for stating our opinion.
FS’s comment above has quite a bit of merit, ryu and ken can beat og sagat with patience and precision. I like ryu in match up more then ken due to his hk having quicker recovery, a faster fb and the fact that he has the super fb to keep sagat honest with his tiger shots. Ryu and ken mainly want to push sagat into the corner if possible with low rh xx fb patterns. Short hk over low tiger shots and follow up with a dp, throw or some sort of pressure pattern. When possible after knock down, go for a cross hk, sagat cannot dp this move if done right, it’s pretty diffucult to block in some instances and usually means a free knock down for ken and ryu.

Oh, one more though pertaining to the original post. Bison can beat Honda. I’m not too well versed on this match but I do know that Bison’s jab torpedo snuffs Honda’s headbutt in almost all instances. For some reason the jab headbutt loses (clean) 90% of the time, it’s weird.

-wes


#10

I saw Thomas pulling a whole strategy use the jab torpedo with Bison against a honda player at Evo 2k2, it was cool to see how the match up was played by the Street Fighter Legend.

  • I wrote a whole thread about Super Turbo( the Hyperfighting and Super Turbo thread) at shinakuma.com if any of peeps need it as a reference.:cool:

:cool:


#11

Did you attend the UCLA tourney this week? We had a ton of Casual Super Turbo matches, and I like to put the faces with the nicks :slight_smile:


#12

I did not attend because I am saving money for a certain occasion(bunnyranch hehehe, yeah I know it’s sad). Post at least two weeks before you plan to have a ST tourney and I’ll try to show up.


#13

O. Honda slappy own Bison for free!

:lol:

Seriously though, it’s really hard for Bison to get out if O. Honda is doing a HHS in the corner. I kept up the trap for a while and ended up with a blister on my hand from mashing the buttons! :lol:

Some counter matches off the top of my head:

Honda countered by O. Shotos, O. Sagat
Zangief countered by everyone (almost…well, specifically Vega and O. Sagat)
Guile countered by Vega
Vega countered by O. Sagat, O. Ken
O. Sagat countered by Dhalsim

In general, O. Sagat is kind of an all-purpouse counter for everyone except Dhalsim, who he loses to almost for free.


#14

I’m not sure I buy the Vega countered by O. Sagat. Vega’s fast jump and long range mean O. Sagat can’t quite play machine gun like he can vs so many other characters. Since we’re talking about “counter” characters, I’d vote no Sagat countering Vega. If I wanted to really counter him, I’d pick Ken (New!) or maybe Honda.

I like Ken vs Vega because it limits his off the wall games, and because of the hurricane kick tricks you can play against Vega, especially after a knockdown. That, and repeat ticks work really well against him.

Honda I like because he can’t poke excessively against him, or he risks losing damage trades on headbutts, and his air game is limited by the jab headbutt. Honda also has the added bonus of repeat ochio ticks, which just really suck for Vega.

Regarding Bison vs Honda, the jab torpedo is a bit of a pain for honda to get around, but there’s a small ray of light with the butt splash, which I think you can use to get away from it. I’m also not too well versed in this matchup.

I personally like Cammy vs Dhalsim, but that’s been a hard sell to everybody I’ve talked to :slight_smile: I’ve had a lot of success in that matchup, but I freely attribute part of that to the “Cammy? Wtf?” factor. That aside, she does have a lot of weapons that help against Sim, like a good crossup that leads to a TOD combo if it connects, and of course Jump Strong.

Mike


#15

I have to disagree on this one :slight_smile:


#16

Masaka:

Vega vs. O. Sagat is kind of hard to explain. I don’t think O. Sagat wins for free or anything, but an O. Sagat player with good reflexes will own Vega.

I can’t really be anymore specific than that…but speaking as a Vega player, I worry far more about facing O. Sagat or O. Ken (even N. Ken gives me the jibblies :stuck_out_tongue: ), than I do any other character.

I don’t feel Honda is a counter character at all for Vega. It’s slightly in Honda’s favour, but I’ll face Honda over O. Sagat or O. Ken any day.

Regarding Cammy vs. Dhalsim, I think James Chen will support you on that one :slight_smile:

Reza-O:

zangief is suck, you no good fuck fei!
:lol:


#17

LOL :slight_smile: Zangief doesn’t suck dude. However (Fei fuck Zangief) = True.


#18

Fei Fuck Zangief? Anyone care to explain?


#19

Fei has many tools to keep Zangief away.

1- Sitting Fierce. You can abuse the hell out of this. If you’re in the right distance and Zangief sticks anything out or tries to move forward it will hit him clean. A couple of these in a short period = Dizzy Gief = Dead Gief.

2- Standing short: You can abuse the hell out of this, as a matter of fact everytime you see Zangief jump you can tap standing short madly(telegraph it even) and it will counter almost every single jumping Zangief move.

3- A great short uppercut (b,d, df short kick) that has great priority, is great for reversals, and IF BLOCKED pushes you back into a safe distance again. :slight_smile:

4- And the rest of his regular arsenal.

The above couple of points give a distinct advantage to Fei in a Fei VS Gief match, if both players are of equal skill level. Gief CAN win the match but Fei has more going for him in the match, so much so that it makes it an un-even match per say and you could say Fei Counters Gief or in other words Fei fuck Gief.

Hope that explained it.


#20

Dont forget Fei’s “wheel” kick. Zangief has major problems countering that move.