ST Guile


#1

ok well, this can be a thread about ST Guile if anyone wants it to be. Otherwise I’ll just ask some questions and see if anyone has any answers.

I have this annoying problem:
When I need a flash kick to come out right away, sometimes I go into block stance instead. This tends to happen when I want to flash kick a hurricane kick, or a jump in at the last moment. It seems to happen even if I do the flash kick ending in up forward.
Anyone have any advice about this? For the hurricane kick, I just now thought it might work to cancel the flash kick out of the first frame or two of a low jab. Havent been able to test this out yet though.

Also, I’d like some advice in a match up that I dont have a clue what to do in, even though I dont have the impression that its supposed to be lopsided: Guile vs Chun Li.
I think the essence of the problem is, if I throw a sonic boom, she can just jump over it on reaction (even with slow reactions), and do a jumping short. None of my normal anti airs that would usually work under that circumstance will stop it. She is then free to tick me, or lightning kick tick damage me, or whatever.

She also outprioritizes my normals, so I dont feel like I can fight her without sonic booms.

Any suggestion?


#2

If Chun Li jumps at you with short, immediately start walking TOWARDS her, and if you did it correctly you should end up behind her. Then immediately press standing strong.

That’s one thing to do. However it sounds like you’re throwing too many sonic booms, so whoever you’re playing against keeps jumping at you because they know you don’t know how to hit them out with a normal AND you don’t have a charge for a flash kick. My advice on that is distance is crucial. There are basically 3 distance zones you can play with.

1- The farthest distance, where Chun li’s jump is not a threat. You can throw Sonic booms liberally at this distance.
2- The distance where if you even throw a Fierce Sonic boom, it will not hit Chun li before she can jump over it. And I think that distance is out of your sitting forward range. Or maybe a bit closer.
3- Ultimately the closest distance, where if you throw a Fierce Sonic boom, and Chun li tries to jump or stick a move out she will get hit.

Soooo…As far as Sonic booms go, you don’t really want to throw them at zone 2. You gotta find a way to force them into Zone 1 OR let them walk into Zone 3. Also note that in Zone 3 stick to only Fierce Sonic boom for optimal results.

Distance is very important in ST. Not being in your optimal distance against certain characters could mean the round, or could represent a critical point in the match where you get severely punished for the mistake.

Hope that helped.


#3

brian, i beleve i played you b4 in that program that lets you play online with ppeople. my name is oro, g-r0c, ahoyhoy. your guile/hief is pretty leet.


#4

Hey G-Roc, sup. Hope to see online again sometime :).

Rez-O, thanks for the advice. I guess I sorta had the same basic plan you suggested, but with some differences. For one, I had been trying to walk under, and use standing close forward kick to anti air. This has some success when shes jumping from close, but not great success. I’ll try to walk all the way under and hit strong as you suggest. Sounds interesting.
About the ranges:
It still looks like a tough match to me. Range 1 doesnt really accomplish anything, since she can just match fireballs with you… and in the process she charges her kick ass super, while you charge your pathetic one. Also seems like its easy for her to go from range 1 to range 2.

So basically it looks like you gotta go for range 3. Looks tough, given her much better normals/throws.

I think youre right about the fierce sonic booms though… maybe I’m using too many slow ones.


#5

One more thing. I don’t know what kind of charging technique you’re using but a good way to always have a charge for another immediate sonic boom is this:

Instead of doing Sonic boom by doing Charge back then forward and punch, do Charge back then move forward and then BACK then press punch. What happens is a sonic boom will come out WHILE you’re charging for the NEXT sonic boom which dramatically saves time AND allows you to do another immediate sonic boom right after the first one hits at about half screen or less.


#6

yup, I’m fairly proficient on the sonic booms, but thanks :slight_smile:
Still waiting for a chun to play…


#7

Brian: About not being able to FK… I know this sounds dumb, but don’t go to back? I’ve had it happen to me with chun (even heard the “ya!” i think! :)) but it makes sense. Go straight down->up?

That kara jab into it would most likely work… and I will now bite that idea off of you. :stuck_out_tongue: That would garauntee you don’t stand up at ALL.


#8

anyone want to discuss Guile’s matchups here and which version is best for each matchup?


#9

I’m happy to discuss any aspect of Guile’s matchups that I’ve been able to figure out.
I never really play with old Guile though, so I can’t help you there.
I find the sobat and back+rh kicks to be too useful… as well as the crossup, and throw teching.
I find old guile’s standing roundhouse to be fairly equivalent anti air to down+ fierce… correct me if Im wrong. The standing short of old guile is really good though… when I want to use it as new Guile I have to lose my charge… oh well.

Hey, heres something I figured out to help me punish hurricanes:
If you screw up your flash kick and stand, or dont have flash kick charge to begin with, you can start blocking, then duck for a very short time, then stand again. This serves the purpose of making you closer to Ryu as he comes out of the hurricane kick, at which point you should be mashing on strong punch. You should hit him with strong if you timed things well (or youll get a throw).

This also works if you react a little late to a hurricane, so that ryu is right over you. flash kicking is risky cause you can get hit. so just stand and block, and duck/restand as necessary to get ryu close enough to you so the strong mashing will work.

Here’s a question: what’s the punishability status of a blocked low roundhouse?


#10

If you blocked a low roundhouse from Ryu? I would say it’s not a good idea. Usually you won’t get to hit him back since most Ryus will follow a blocked low RH with a fireball to push you out. But even if he doesn’t, that low RH comes out and recovers fairly fast so if he makes you block one it’s hard to hit him back. Low forward or low RH might work depending on how late he hits you with the low RH. Sobat might work too, but that move seems a tad slow.

Guile/Ryu is rough fight for Guile. Advantage Ryu, but Guile can win. If you get a chance to see the USA/JPN footage, watch how Kurahashi plays this fight.

btw backbreaking whiffed DPs = too good.


#11

actually I meant the punishability status of Guile’s low roundhouse, if blocked. can they always super you in between hits? I think probably yes… and that sucks, cause its his only move that comes out fast and has good priority.
Where did you get that footage with kurahashi vs shoto? The only vid I saw from that series was the one with Kurahashi vs choi, and then one vid from each of the other games.


#12

After a blocked low rh shotos can DP the second hit. From up close they can actually just low short the second hit, sadly enough. I assume most chars can super it.

It sucks anyway, cause even if you hit with it you are stuck doing the second hit and can’t get any position.

IMO the best use for the low rh is to sweep jump-ins such that the SECOND hit of the low rh sweeps them. You have to do it early but it has damn great range. I find it works well against Honda for example. But you really have to have the timing down.

Overall it’s pretty useless though, when I see a low rh I generally assume the person hit the wrong button.


#13

i find its really not that useless. As I said, its his only move that comes out fast and has good priority. Like say my attacking sequence leaves a slight gap. Guiles priority sucks so bad that many characters can mash on a poke and itll stuff you, like DJ’s low forward say. But the low Rh has good priority and will take them out. it recovers fast enough to force them to block a sonic boom as theyre getting up usually, which you can follow as usual.
you obviosuly dont want to have it blocked… but like in the above scenario, say I knew the DJ was mashing on low forward, cause he’d caught me with it the last time in the same situation. Then the low rh seems to be a good idea.

More generally, I find its useful in situations where it looks like your gonna have to block or get hit cause your slightly out of position, and your opponent thinks your screwed cause of your slow ass crappy normals. So then you surprise them with the low rh, which will win when nothing else would.


#14

and hey, the backbreaking the dragon punch sounds really cool… i never tried it. Can you really air grab a jab dragon punch?? From ken???


#15

Whoops, it sounded like you were talking about Ryu’s low RH since you were just talking about Guile/Ryu.

I don’t believe low RH is useless either. Actually I use the low RH sweep against jump-ins, but I do it so that I hit with the first hit. I figure you need good timing with that sweep to hit on trip guard, anyway.

Brian: I got a 5 1/2 hour evolution ST tape from Dave Spence. Before the tournament they were playing the USA/JPN tournament footage. From the USA/JPN coverage I got almost all of Choi’s matches, some of Seth’s, and some of Valle/Watson’s. In one match between Kurahashi and Valle (or was it Watson?) he baits a jab/strong DP and backbreaks Ryu out of his recovery.
Whoa.:eek:

It’s certainly doable against Ryu. Not sure about Ken since his dragon punch is faster.


#16

Haven’t played ST in a while, but I also used ducking roundhouse against jump ins as well, only I hit them with the second hit. It’s not bad but it does require some timing. I used ducking forward for jump ins a bit more since it seems safer to throw out than a roundhouse.


#17

In HF I was really good at backbreaking Ryu hurricane. (Ken is tougher since he spins faster) That’s always fun.


#18

What are your strats vs. O.Sagat. That matchup always gave me trouble but there were so few good players that I never was able to pull it apart.


#19

Unfortunately, by the time ST came out the competition was pretty much dead, at least here anyways, but I did happen to play this matchup with a few good players. One of the few things I do remember was ducking the high tiger shots, matching the low ones with a SB, and doing jump in roundhouse and follow that up with a ducking strong or forward. Jump in jab followed by ducking short would always seem to connect, and I would jump back and repeat. For some odd reason his tiger knee would always beat my fierce SB from match start and a low tiger would beat the backfist. That was one of the toughest matchups for me as well. - Hey, what are your strategies against a decent Vega or Rog? Vega always seemed too fast for me to react and a lot of the things I would try would whiff or trade most of the time. Against Balrog I would SB and backfist twice, ducking roundhouse. I could never really jump in on Rog, he always seemed to get me with the headbutt.

Edit: Ducking fierce from about forward range would beat almost every jump in. Any closer and it would either whiff or trade.


#20

If you match a low tiger with a boom closer than half screen you can knee his outstretched arms if you’re quick enough…

Jumping towards over the low shot after blocking a deep one usually isn’t a good idea… I guess it depends on the pattern. But It seems pretty useless to jump over the shot anyways unless you really guess the tiger… even fullscreen it seems he can smoke you with another shot before you land. :frowning:

At the start he can nail you with a knee like beto said… So it’s probably best to wait a sec, for the knee (flash is easy) then go at it, or try to back off for booms.

I would try to match the tigers as best I could (jumping them when I lull them) while adavncing into a range where I can poke, or hit him if I match one . The knee can be a bitch here sometimes if Sagat is lucky (or reads your boom). If I can keep up, and he keeps up with the FB-to-kill strat while I’m try to get into poke range, then I can guess a tiger…

Upclose you could win… (but then Sagat shouldn’t be an idiot and always throw tigers upclose). Fullscreen however, they shouldn’t be as worried about eating a combo and can lulled into throwing a FB then eating your long j.RH… or j.forward. This is applicable to all Projectile characters when you just boom all day.

Well… Against the scrubs I play against anyhow. :smiley: :sweat: