stage speeds


#8

This is kinda off topic, but what do the speeds in HSF2 correspond to?

Here’s my guess:

T0 - CE/WW
T1 - HF
T2 - ST US Speed 2/JP Speed 3
T3 - ST US Speed 3/JP Speed 4

Is this correct?


#9

Emulator stage speed data can easily be obtained and achieve more accuracy than video tests.

Run the game, start a match and pause before the round begins. Frame advance through the stage and count the amount of frames played to whatever benchmark you’re setting (i.e. round over) for each stage. You’ll have accurate speed down to 1/60th of a second.

As far as actual arcades and consoles, unless you have really good recording equipment…meh.


#10

Ah, good point, Pasky. It would require a considerable amount of additional testing time (or probably a macro or two) but that would be ideal. Kawaks has reliable frame-by-frame if anyone is interested. I’d imagine FBA and other emulators would do just as well.


#11

No need for a macro, and Kawaks is a terrible choice, Use FBA-RR.

Set the frame advance hotkey, and display frame input, both exclusive to fba-rr.

No need for special math or anything, the frame counter and patience is all you need.

The findings from the emulator should show which stages are faster, regardless of version, although console/arcade versions may differ in speed slightly from emulation, the emulator findings should still be accurate as far as finding normal to fastest as far as stage speeds go.

You could also easily find stage width by finding the X coordinate of a player and just placing him at one end of the screen, marking the coordinate value, and then moving him to the other end of the screen and subtract the two. I know the coordinate value exists, I found it once in doing some other testing, it was actually easy to find, I don’t remember the value range it was measured in though, not sure if the middle of the stage is 0 and one side is negative or positive or not, been a while since I’ve looked at it.

Either way that should provide stage widths, although it wouldn’t be in any measurable form (pixels etc…) but would still provide width data.


#12

Ha, I was just pointed to this thread. Coincidentally I did this earlier.

For those interested, the seconds on the in-game clock are not the same frame differences. Frame count from 99 to 98 differs from 98 to 97 which differs from 97 to 96 and so on.


#13

Care to explain the reason for it?

No point of bring it up if you are not going to capture such data.


#14

nice. i am really interested to see comparison of JP T3 vs US T2 on various stages. Hopefully it’s not too much too ask :smiley: (if you have time and energy to do that)


#15

Because I believe it’s always a better idea to bring up possible solutions than just complain about 2 missing pieces of information that a previous test tried to determine. Assuming FBA’s frame counter works well and an absolute horizontal position value exists, Pasky’s suggestions offer meaningful info on capturing both of those solutions.

I’ve actually tried to capture stage distance in the past based on connecting screen captures but it became too imprecise because I don’t have any imaging software on my PC. Sorwah and I were even going to compare whether USSR’s speed was different between the JP and US version (as has been questioned recently) as a starting point but it turned out my supergun isn’t compatible with his Hauppauge. When I have time in the future, I’ll try these new proposed tests via emulator. Or if you have time and access, you’re certainly free to preempt me and try the tests yourself.

Switching to another point, Sorwah’s test here shows free select and fixed speeds in ST are essentially identical for all intents and purposes. Honestly though, zass already came upon the same results years back in a link mentioned above. So I hope that once and for all, folks running ST tourneys will quit wasting time with free select.


#16

Actually, I take what I said about fba-rr back, I thought it had the frame counter when it’s mame-rr that does, mame also has a frame skip counter (Not shown when paused) letting you know if the emulator had to skip a frame (not whether st does it’s own frame skipping however).

mame-rr - Project Hosting on Google Code

I had a little time and this is what I meant, I began the count the very first frame after “FIGHT!” disappears. I ended the count the very first frame the two dummies move to their draw game pose animations:

USA: 5173 - 2118 = (3055 / 60) = 50.9166 Seconds

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9655/usas.png

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4301/usae.png

China: 12388 - 9407 = (2981 / 60) = 49.6833 Seconds

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6012/chinas.png

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6672/chinae.png

USSR: 15373 - 12468 = (2905 / 60) = 48.4166 Seconds

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8333/ussrs.png

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7827/ussre.png

So ya, proof of concept. USSR is definitely faster than USA and China. Haven’t done any other stages.


#17

Ha Pasky, we basically did the same thing timing wise. :stuck_out_tongue:


#18

i hate sim, honda and chun’s stages so badly, i really hate these stages, the music and the speed, so annoying.


#19

Stage speed never bothers me.

Get good.


#20

Alright, I’ve gone and did comparisons of each stage with Ryu & Ken doing nothing but jumping straight up (incase I need to make visual display of speeds) in both GMC & USA versions of the game. The only exception is Dictator’s stage - where I use two Dictators. This was done because you can’t have a non-dictator on Dictator’s stage due to the game’s coding of not letting you win against the final boss by plugging in Player 2. Instead, you would get the continuing character’s stage if neither player is Dictator.

Anyways, on to the data!

First frame was registered as the first frame that “FIGHT!” did NOT appear on, and the last frame in each timing was the end of the first round on the frame the characters first displayed their Draw Loss Poses.

In terms of Speed differences between each setting, I just compared Guile’s stage:

The ##:## is Total Seconds:Frame Remainder (60 frames in every second)
So 30:45 = 30 seconds and 45 additional frames

For those who have trouble reading the data, here’s the speed order from fastest to slowest:

  1. USA Turbo 3, GMC Turbo 4, USA Free 3 (47:56, 47:56, 48:02)
  2. GMC Free 3, USA Turbo 2, GMC Turbo 3, USA Free 2 (49:54, 49:49, 49:58, 49:50)
  3. GMC Free 2, USA Turbo 1, GMC Turbo 2, USA Free 1 (51:23, 51:29, 51:25, 51:22)
  4. GMC Free 1, USA Turbo 0, GMC Turbo 1 (52:40, 52:47, 52:49)

Then I went and compared USA T2 & GMC T3 stages from each other as those are the accepted settings for Tournament Play:

For those having trouble reading the data, here’s the speed order from fastest to slowest:

GMC

  1. Dhalsim
  2. Zangief
  3. Sagat
  4. Claw
  5. Dictator
  6. Guile
  7. Cammy
  8. Fei Long
  9. Chun Li
  10. E. Honda
  11. Dee Jay
  12. Ken
  13. T. Hawk
  14. Blanka
  15. Boxer
  16. Ryu

USA

  1. Dhalsim
  2. Sagat
  3. Zangief
  4. Claw
  5. Guile
  6. Dictator
  7. Cammy
  8. Chun Li
  9. Fei Long
  10. Boxer
  11. E. Honda
  12. Ken
  13. Dee Jay
  14. T. Hawk
  15. Blanka
  16. Ryu

If you were to group them so the ones in the same second are listed:

GMC

  1. Dhalsim, Zangief, Sagat, Claw (48:11, 48:13, 48:33, 48:45)
  2. Dictator, Guile (49:39, 49:58)
  3. Cammy, Fei Long, Chun Li (50:06, 50:48, 50:54)
  4. E. Honda, Dee Jay, Ken, T. Hawk, Blanka, Boxer, Ryu (51:03, 51:18, 51:19, 51:23, 51:26, 51:40, 51:51)

USA

  1. Dhalsim, Sagat, Zangief, Claw (48:08, 48:25, 48:28, 48:37)
  2. Guile, Dictator (49:49, 49:54)
  3. Cammy, Chun Li, Fei Long (50:05, 50:45, 50:56)
  4. Boxer, E. Honda, Ken, Dee Jay, T. Hawk, Blanka, Ryu (51:03, 51:05, 51:11, 51:19, 51:23, 51:32, 51:48)

You could even argue that Tiers 2 and 3 could be either merged or have Cammy jump to Tier 2 as she is closer to Tier 2 than Tier 3’s other numbers.

Keep in mind, that each of these time differences reported are the TOTAL time difference lost from one version to the other over the course of an ENTIRE round. It’s not like each version is running equally then bam one is hanging for an additional 9 frames. That’s 9 frames over the course of thousands. For example, Chun Li’s stage is a difference of 9 frames over the course of 3000 being rendered. That’s a 0.3% loss/gain of frames over the course of 50 seconds. I personally don’t feel that’s noticeable when actively playing.

Enjoy.


Super Turbo Tournament at Evolution: Las Vegas, NV July 30, 2011 1pm
#21

this is so cool. so we can finally conclude that US T2’s speed is equal to JP T3 in practice. The few frames difference out of 50 seconds is negligible.

so besides gief’s neutral headbutt causing instance dizzy, they are the same.

we can use either US or JP boards in tourney.

sorwah, if you can spend a little time next week, please also test asia version :china: tia


#22

impressive work. capcom made ST a buggy game; yet it’s good to dodge these issues.


#23

Agreed. People complaining about combo timings for different stages are just making excuses.


#24

Excellent research and report Sorwah


#25

My reference to that was in comparison to GMC & USA. However, speeds of the stages (Dhalsim compared to Ryu) is that there’s a 3 second difference, or roughly 180 frames. Assuming it were to be a consistent drop you’d be having 3 frames disappear every second. For that reason, the one frame links and reversal timings can be considered different due to this.


#26

Plus online messing everything else up, btw, if you do not have access to offline competition.


#27

For those interested, I compared Guile’s stage on HD Remix. Below are the corresponding data for the game using the same timing frames as I did with CPS2.

A Video can be located here comparing all three: [media=youtube]Ht9_wLhOxXQ[/media]

*edit, just noticed the video didn’t have the Round 1, fight for GMC/USA vids, but they started on the correct frame. Don’t feel like redoing it just to add those 3 seconds back.

HDR:
Speed 0: 1 minute, 7 seconds, and 34 remaining frames
Speed 1: 56:54
Speed 2: 55:27
Speed 3: 54:03
Speed 4: 52:40

Reviewing the USA/GMC table:

So HDR’s fastest speed is faster than USA/GMC’s slowest speed by less than 10 frames, and ~4 seconds slower than USA/GMC’s T2/T3.