Stark's perma-glaive style

amaterasu

#1

I tried it out recently and WHY IS THIS SO GOOD

After I got over my fears and tried going perma-glaive, I can’t believe how much shenanigans Ammy can do here…

Things that I discovered, correct me if I’m wrong:

-c.L->c.M->c.H->Thunder Edge L as a blockstring leaves you at -2 or -3 or maybe even -1 frames? I punished a lot of people earlier trying to punish this blockstring with another c.L followed up, so I’m assuming that the only way to counter this would be a throw much like Nemesis’ blockstring?
-c.H->Thunder Edge L is a ridiculous footsie that starts the solo-glaive BnB afterward
-people actually get scared to do stuff when you’re charging j.H in the air. That’s weird and I like it, but I won’t want to rely on it too much…
-using c.L->c.M->Thunder Edge M actually becomes a vortex situation that’s very confusing to react to.

And for some reason it’s like the meter problems with the glaive seem to be non-existent or something, I seem to be always able to end my combos with an Okami Shuffle within the match. This is just… wow.

Of course I still won’t forget about the reflector (I was running perma-reflector for a huge long ass time anyway) but I think I’m welcome to shift over…


#2

Standing heavy covers you really well on defense. It doesn’t hit directly above you, but that’s what H paper is for. Confirm it to thunder edge and start a combo.

Thunder Edge’s frame advantage depends on when it hits the opponent; it has quite a bit of active frames and your blockstring determines when it hits. Done properly, it can be +1, meaning, you can jump out of their throw attempts. But watch for advancing guard; don’t be predictable.

On counterhit, j.L combos to j.3H. This is actually quite useful, as it lets you really screw with people who want to throw you since… are there any standing heavies at 8 frames or faster? j.:l: j.:df::h: j.:d::d::l:, j.:l: j.:h: |> :m: :d::h: :d::d::m: > cool combos

If a normal whiffs, like, really badly, cancelling it to :qcf::h: gets you airborne. Or maybe you expect an advancing guard and you want to start running tricks. It’s like a jump cancel for everything.

:qcf::h: is also higher than a normal jump. Call an assist and air dash up right to produce sound effects that mask it, while also making it become offscreen. Cool times ahead on hitconfirm. Remember that you can affect whether you cross up in certain situations by either letting your air dash go all the way and immediately stop, using a normal to end it early, or using a normal at the end to keep some momentum and go a bit further. j.L is my normal favorite for this since it recovers fast and you can do a j.H on the way down if you know your assist either hit or was blocked.

Also remember that usually if you’re in reflector, when you’d want to counter something, it’s something you can call out ahead of time! It’s rare to have to make a snap reaction with counter. Weapon change only takes 10 frames; get used to the motion :d::f::d::l::df::atk: to buffer the counter of your choice through your weapon change motion. This really screws with people.


#3

Sorry for being stupid but I never actually got what the hell this means? I keep hearing it a lot… I mean does it actually make a difference whether your move hits an opponent doing something or not? Because this is a mechanic I’ve never heard of even until now. I mean I’ve heard it used on BB a lot (and I don’t even play that game), but I don’t actually notice differences here…

Bold Move? XD

What assists can this become a hitconfirm though? Or does Ammy fall fast enough to follow up beams?

Oh crap I wanna practice this… it’s like an inverted DP motion? That looks insanely weird XD

Dunno, gotta check Viper’s, Zero’s, and Felicia’s b.H for that…


#4

It’s just hitting people out of moves. In Marvel, it doesn’t say counterhit or have a big flashy extra effect in general, but it’s there. On counterhit, moves do 2 more frames of hitstun, which in most cases is not helpful and in some cases allows you to do combos that you otherwise could not. Some moves have extra effects when they counterhit, like wolverine’s dive kick causing stagger, but that’s not what’s happening here.

Yeah she just falls fast enough. Like, Taskmaster arrows keeps the opponent standing on hit, and you come down with a j.H, land, and get whatever you want.

I guess. It’s more just a regular DP motion with a down in front of it. A better representation of the motion I actually use would be :d: :f::df::d::db::l::d::df::atk:; down, forward to down-forward, sweep the stick across the bottom. Way easier on square gate than anything else, obviously. You might need to practice it before you can do it quickly consistently; I got used to it because of practicing musou tensei (fan nickname for buffering dragon punches both ways on wakeup with :b::f: :df::d::db::d::df: because you have absolutely no respect for the concept of an ambiguous crossup) way back when.

Oh yeah, I guess Taskmaster’s :b::h: is 6 frames, too, huh


#5

oh god I still keep forgetting about glaive j.H’s properties, lol, now that I think about it makes a million more sense now. Just hope Doom beams will be friendly in this situation too, gotta try that sometime

Yeah it seems like it, just hope my pad skills can handle it. I’m confident it can, but I’m not sure about my stick prowess about this haha (not sure what kind of stick is being used at my local custom cab arcades). If I can do it though that’s free jackpot to keep fooling people, I really, REALLY like this idea…


#6

Ammy as a point character with a beam assist: Perma-glaive is the best option.
Ammy as anchor: Keep that Solar Flare equipped if you want to win.


#7

i dunno i kinda feel that she’s best in glaive if you have XF3, the main problem with glaive is that its kinda slow and XF3 solves that. Her airdash is also a lot faster so air dash j.H with glaive is a great way to open ppl up and its harder to run away from because of the huge hitbox. At the very least you should switch to glaive mid combo to get the kill without burning any meter, that way you can save all your meter in case XF3 runs out for veil of mist.


#8

What the hell are you smoking? I actually used the opposite back then. Glaive Anchor Ammy is godlike in that she becomes Sentinel-like in anchor. Not only that, Ammy has dat XF2/3 infinite that’s only available in glaive.

But now I’ll try sticking to glaive for any situation now, but if forced to use the disc then I can still handle that :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

mmm, of course Ammy has to use the glaive in XFLv3 because of the TOD loops and corner mixups, but hitconfirming with the glaive is harder and tends to drop a lot (Ammy speed in XF Lv3 is not easy to control). The solar flare has easy hitconfirms, instant counters into TOD, faster overhead (j.H) and a loop in XF with the power slash papers (cr.M, s.H, s.f.Hx6, power slash M or L, cr.M, s.f.Hx6, etc.). How does Ammy becomes Sentinel in XF because of the glaive? Sent has armors, a command grab into TOD in the corner, if anything the glaive takes out from Ammy the possibility of countering normals and projectiles.

A good Ammy will play the Solar Flare, Glaive and Beads and shift when the situation requires, sticking 100% of the time with one of the three is not the smart thing to do.


#10

hhhwhwhwhat…? How are you… No? Not at all?

Get better at fighting games, that’s my advice


#11

im not rly sure if i would say that reflector is better at opening ppl up in XF3, it has pretty short range so ppl running away can be a problem and while i think that her counter is one of her best moves i dont think you’re going to get a chance to use it often during XF3, you’re usually the one rushing down and the other player is usually running away/turtling (characters with dive kicks/ helm breakers might be an exception) and occasionally throwing out a random hyper to get some breathing room.

When it comes to mixups i think the glaive takes this one easily, air dash j.H can be a pretty ambiguous mixup and has a big hitbox and her instant over head combo works in XF3 AFAIK. Also i havent tried this personally so im not sure if its possible but with the speed boost you get in XF3 it might be possible to combo after throws that she usually cant follow up using her OTG.


#12

A little too rude aren’t you, i bet i play a better ammy than you.

Anyway, there is a reason of why high level Ammy players like Marlin Pie for example always stick to the reflector when anchoring with Ammy. I don’t really know if it’s easier to open up people with the reflector, but it’s more consistent and the solar flare counters vs thunder edge trade is not worth. j.H with the glaive is a good move, but Ammy can’t hitconfirm with it without exposing her own defense. Btw, the glaive j.H is not special cancellable. Combos in XF starting with the reflector are also more consistent. The glaive best tool for opening people is the “dive kick” j df.H move cancelled into weapon change L from above.

This is why this move is not reliable entirely, not even in XF, the j.H in reflector stance is an instant overhead, but when using the glaive Ammy has to airdash more time, one bad air dash decision and Ammy is dead. She cannot commit mistakes or do unsafe stuff when anchoring or it will be over. In low levels it might work, but when dealing with real teams Ammy can’t expose her defense too much.

Of course i’m not disregarding the glaive, i love that weapon, the loops in XF with Veil of mist and the TOD with sf.H x 4, but in the neutral game the reflector is the best option for anchor Ammy imo.

Yeah and i don’t think Ammy need XF to follow air-grabs (at super jump height) with dash, j.df.H, weapon change L, etc. In XF i think Ammy can follow any grab from any range, be it with weapon change M, airdash, OTG or with s.M.

Btw, ammy can TOD anyone out of any grab in XF Lv3.


#13

See now this just doesnt make sense to me, because most of the reasons you listed for the reflector being better apply more to normal ammy than it does to XF3 ammy. Like mixups, more consistent combos and counter move are the kind of benefits of using the reflector OUTSIDE of XF. Like i said mixups are better in Glaive and i dont think j.H is an instant overhead but even if it was j.L is much faster. Ofcourse air dashes are unsafe but in XF3 they become faster making it hard to react to, and j.H has a lot of range in glaive so unlike the reflector you dont need to dash low to the ground to connect a hit which also makes it safer.

Also “consistent” doesnt rly sound like the right word here, its just easier. Saying that glaive combos are less “consistent” makes it sound like her XF3 glaive combos are less practical to do which is definitely not true. They’re a little harder but its honestly not that hard with the speed boost you get.

st.MH, cr.H xx Thunder Edge L, st.H cr.H xx Thunder edge L, S, j.MM xx Head charge H, charged j.H, charged Thunder Edge L, 6H infinite.

This isnt as easy as a reflector combo but its still fairly easy to do and if you spend 10 minutes practicing it in training mode it wont be any less consistent either.


#14

This combo in XF Lv3 drops right here sometimes, because the XF speed boost puts her on the other side of the screen after of a thunder edge L (sometimes) and the hitbox of s.H can whiff. The paper loop on standing characters is +1000k without the infinite so yeah, the damage with reflector is more consistent. jump, dash down, j.H (reflector) is the best instant overhead for Ammy imo, is faster than j.S and has more range than both j.L and j.S. With the glaive j.H Ammy has to airdash more time and higher for it to hit, so it’s more risky. This mixup game you are talking about is more like a paper + glaive j.df.H thing. A clean airdash, j.H with no backup whatsoever is VERY unsafe.

Any combo can be done in the lab, but in real fights consistence vs execution vs damage is something that should be considered. Not even Marlin Pie likes the consistence of the glaive when anchoring with Ammy, and his execution is one of the best out of all the MvC players.

Anchor ammy = ammy without companions, so yeah, the reflector is the best for her neutral game in that situation with or without XF imo.

I don’t see how it’s safer, the dash for a j.H overhead with the reflector ends at once, the dash for a j.H with the glaive lasts a lot of time. Unsafe uncancellable stuff with high recovery is unsafe regardless of the other player level or reaction speed.


#15

ITT: someone who doesn’t know how to use the glaive. (I originally put ‘unintentional troll’, but I wanted to be more polite)

This sums up all that I want to say to serpentaurus, I don’t think I’d want to reply to him any further…

You’re taking ‘perma’ literally, aren’t you.

Oh and btw from what I’ve been seeing you’re implying that j.H with reflector is the only instant overhead that Amaterasu has. From that statement alone you already lost all your credibility.


#16

>_> I used to play a perma-glaive Ammy back in a vanilla team of Ammy/Magneto/Wesker.


#17

You realize, that’s not actually an instant overhead, right

You have the minimum height restriction on air dashes for one, and also time you have to wait during your air dash before you can cancel it to anything… It’s fast, but it still takes twice as long as her only actual instant overhead, jump to instant j.L…

Based purely on your stated location, I’m going to assume you don’t.


#18

Ok this is one of the most ignorant posts i have seen in recent time, you give Ammy players a bad name, i will just leave this thread now. Have success with your perma-glaive anchor Ammy mr.Stark.


#19

I don’t anchor with Ammy and have made exactly zero posts talking up anchoring with glaive. Learn to read :3

I also haven’t really heard anything good about Colombian fighting game scenes, and while this is definitely at least mostly because I haven’t sought out this information, if it produces someone who can’t execute simple crap like X-Factor LMH thunder edge, S sj j.236H j.[H] 6HHHH infinite… Then, seriously, what the hell. Marlinpie not anchoring with glaive has exactly zero percent to do with him having trouble with her execution.


#20

No stance is better in general. A lot of stances are more practical in different match-ups. Some matchups like doom you could say that each stance is really strong in different situations. I’m even coming close to the opinion that all stances are practical in most match-ups. But that’s something that still needs to be explored. In general I’m of the opinion though that playing in one stance makes ammy one-dimensional and lazy.

Ms. Stark*