Starting a "scene" - Consolidated tier and ban lists [Long]


#1

I suppose a short introduction is in order. In Ireland, as far as I know, there is absolutely no arcade scene. This is probably due to the fact that there are very few actual arcades, but plenty of smoky backrooms with a few old machines and pool tables being played by people you most certainly wouldn?t want to introduce to polite society ;). Anyhow that tremendously interesting bit of social insight aside, while Ireland doesn?t have very many arcades it does have a very, very high ps2 penetration. So it would seem obvious that any Irish “scene” would be primarily ps2 based (with a few games which are available only on other consoles). I’m quite interested in setting up such a scene and have got a reasonable group of people showing a similar interest.

So the basic idea would be to gather said people together, let them try out a fairly wide selection of games and then try and pick about three to five “core” games (just highlighting this for clarification purposes, Im not trying to push the giant list below, just three to five games from it) which would allow people to learn them and be more or less guaranteed opponents. Once these games were established then it would be possible to get tournaments, leagues, casual play meetings, etc. going. So what I?ve been trying to do is to put together small “cheat sheets” for each game, what I want to cover for these is the tier listing as well as what characters are commonly banned and whether the game in general is “tournament worthy”/balanced. Also any suggestions in regards to game selection (whether that?s pointing out additional ones or suggesting eliminating redundancy e.g. is there any point having both KOF 98 and KOF XI?) are also appreciated.

What I?m hoping is that people can fill in the information I?m missing or correct any erroneous information. I’ve split the list roughly into games which I assume to be fine for tournaments (based mainly on what I?ve seen been played in the larger tournaments) labelled “Tournament Ready” and games which I’m unsure are ok for tournaments, labelled “Tournament Questionable”.

I’ve also included notes after the tier list trying to indicate the granularity of the tiers i.e. just how superior the top tiers are. I’ve tried to split it into roughly three classifications as follows:

Dominant - Top tiers are extremely dominant, its very difficult to win with lower (S Tier characters may be “broken”)

Difficult - Lowers tiers can compete with work, tier listing is more indicative of difficulty to learn than “madz powerz”

*Balanced *- Tiers are more a rough indication than a hard and fast clarification, all tiers can compete

I am aware that for all games that tiers are more or less just “whitebox” simulations and that player skill is the real decider, but I still think they can be useful.
**
Tournament Ready **

Game: Capcom vs SNK 2
*Notes: * None
*Tier: *

S: Blanka — Sagat

A: Sakura — Bison — Cammy — Guile — Chun Li — Geese — Rolento

B: Everyone Else ?

Tier Type: ?
Banned Characters: God Rugal, Shin Akuma, Evil Ryu, Orochi Iori

Game: Dead or Alive 4
*Notes: *None
*Tier: *

S: Hayabusa — Ayane — Kasumi — Hayate — Gen Fu — Lei Fang

**A: **Tina — Spartan-458 — Eliot — Bayman — Helena

B: Kokoro — Brad Wong — Zack — Leon — Jann Lee — La Mariposa

C: Christie — Ein — Hitomi — Bass — Tengu

Tier Type: Difficult
Banned Characters: None

Game: Guilty Gear XX Slash
Notes: None
*Tier: *

S+: Ky

S: Sol

A: Potemkin — Faust — Slayer

B: I-No — Chipp — Johnny — Jam — Anji — Baiken — Testament — Millia — A.B.A. — Axl

C: May — Zappa — Bridget — Order-Sol — Venom

D: Eddie — Dizzy — Robo-Ky
*
Tier Type:* Balanced
Banned Characters: Justice, Kliff, All Shadow/Ex/Gold

Game: Hokuto No Ken
Notes: None
Tier:

S: Toki

A: Rei — Kenshiro — Raoh — Juda

B: Shin — Heart — Souther

C: Mamiya — Jagi

Tier Type: Dominant
Banned Characters: None

Game: Hyper Street Fighter II
Notes: None
Tier:

Tier Type:
*Banned Characters: Akuma
*
Game: Marvel vs Capcom 2
Notes: None
*Tier: *

**S+: **Sentinel — Storm — Cable — Magneto

S: Cyclops — Iron Man — War Machine — Doctor Doom — Strider Hiryu — Spiral — Dhalsim — Blackheart

A: Captain Commando — Psylocke — T. Bonne

**B: **Cammy — Colossus — Gambit — Iceman — Marrow — Juggermaut — Omega Red — Rogue — Spider-Man — Silver Samurai Spider-Man — Wolverine (bone claw) — Wolverine — Venom — Ruby Heart

C: Akuma — Ken — Ryu — Charlie — Guile — B.B. Hood — M. Bison — Hulk — Jin — Jill — Felicia — Morrigan — Sakura — Sonson — Zangief — Captain America

D: Amingo — Anakaris — Chun-Li — Hayato — Sabretooth — Shuma-Gorath — Thanos

E: Dan — Roll — Servbot

Tier Type: Dominant
Banned Characters: None

*Game: *Melty Blood: Act Cadenza
Notes: Play in "Original Mode"
Tier:

**S: **Crazy Arcueid — Tohno Shiki

A: Sion — Satsuki — Red Hair Akiha

B: Arcueid — Warakia — Nero Chaos — Akiha — Kohaku & Hisui — Nanaya Shiki

**C: **Aozaki Aoko — Kishima Kouma — Mecha Hisui — Ren — Ciel — Vampire Sion — Miyako — Kohaku — Hisui

D: Neko Arc

*Tier Type: *Difficult
Banned Characters: None

Game: Neo Geo Battle Coliseum
Notes: None
Tier:

S: Mr Big — Kim — Hotaru

A: Marco — Iori — Robert — Haohmaru — Mizuchi — Hanzo — Kyo

B: Mai — Lee — Kaede — Moriya — Neo Dio — Washizuka — Mudman — Cyber Woo

C: Tung — Shiki — Athena — K’ — Mr. Karate — Fuma — Kisarah — Shishioh — Terry — Shermie

**D: **Akari — Rock — Geese — Asura — Mars People (and Rising) — Chonrei — Ai (And Rising) — Genjyuro

**E: **Yuki — Chonshu — Nakoruru

Tier Type: Dominant
Banned Characters: Goodman

Game: Samurai Spirits Tenkaichi Kenkakuden
Notes: Play in “Arcade” mode
Tier:

S: Mina — Shizumaru — Iroha — Kazuki — Amakusa

A: Sogetsu — Cham Cham — Gaoh — Zankuro — Haohmaru — Ukyo — Galford — Mizuki

B: Hanzo — Yumeji — Rasetsumaru — Enja — Gen-An — Rera — Sieger

C: Suija — Nicotine — Sankuro — Basara — Andrew — Ocha-Maro — Gaira

D: Rimururu — Sugoroku — Jubei — Yunfei — Tam Tam — Kyoshiro — Charlotte —

E: Genjuro — Yoshitora — Wan Fu — Kusaregedo — Earthquake — Nakoruru

Tier Type: Difficult
Banned Characters: All non arcade char’s ?

Game: Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike
Notes: None
Tier:

S: Yun — Chun Li — Ken — Makoto

A: Urien — Oro — Yang — Dudley — Akuma — Ryu

B: Ibuki — Necro — Alex — Elena — Remy

C: Hugo — Twelve — Q — Sean

Tier Type: Dominant
Banned Characters: Gill

Game: Tekken 5 DR
Notes: None
Tier:

S: Heihachi — Devil Jin

A: Julia — Kazuya — Steve — Feng — Lei

B: Jack-5 — Ganryu — King — Anna — Law — Bryan — Baek — Marduk

C: Eddy/Christie — Lee — Asuka — Lili — Jin — Xiaoyu — Raven — Roger Jr. — Armor King — Paul

D: Hwoarang — Yoshimitsu — Nina — Dragunov — Wang — Bruce

E: Kuma/Panda

Tier Type: Balanced
Banned Characters: Jinpachi

Game: The King of Fighters '98
Notes: ?
*Tier: *

A: Kyo — Goro — Chizuru — Iori

**B: **Benimaru — Robert — Ralf — Chang — Yashiro (Orochi) — Chris — Chris (Orochi)

C: Kyo (95) — Terry — Joe — Yashiro — Takuma

**D: **Ryo — Clark — Kensou — Yamazaki — Mary — Mature

E: Terry (Alt.) * — Ryo (Alt.) — Leona — Athena — Chin — Mai — Mai (Alt.) — King — Choi — Kim — Shermie — Vice — Shingo — Saishu

F: Robert (Alt.) — Yuri — Heavy D

G: Andy — Yuri (Alt.) — Billy — Heidern — Brian — Rugal

H: Andy (Alt.) — Joe (Alt.) — Billy (Alt.) — Shermie (Orochi), Lucky

*Tier Type: *Balanced
Banned Characters: ?

*Game: *The King of Fighters XI
Notes: ?
*Tier: *

S+: Gato — Kula

S: Oswald — Eiji — Duck (2P) — Kim — Clark

A: Ralf — Duck — Kyo — Maxima — Ryo — Gai

B: Jenet — K’ — Ash — Terry — Shen — Jyazu — Silber — Vanessa — Kensou

C: Malin — Iori — Duolon — Adelheid — Benimaru — Elisabeth

D: Yuri — Ramon — Mary — Shingo — King — Griffon
**
E:** Kasumi — Momoko — Athena — Whip

Tier Type: Difficult
Banned Characters: None

Game: Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
*Notes: *None
Tier:

A: Sarah — Pai — Kage

B: Akira — Lau — Jacky — Vanessa

C: Aoi — Lion — Shun

D: Wolf — Jeffry

E: Lei-Fei — Brad — Goh

Tier Type: Balanced
Banned Characters: None
*
Game:* Virtua Fighter 5
*Notes: *None
*Tier: *

S: Shun — Pai

A: Vanessa — Eileen — Kage — Lei Fei

B: Brad — Wolf — Lau — Jacky

C: Akira — Goh

D: Lion — Sarah — Aoi

E: Jeffry — El Blaze

Tier Type: Balanced
Banned Characters: None

**Tournament Questionable **

Battle Stadium DON
Bloody Roar 4
DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 2
Garouden Break Blow: Fist or Twist
Kinnikuman Muscle Grand Prix Max
Naruto: Narutimett Hero 3
Full Metal Alchemist : Dream Carnival
Shijou Saikyou no Teishi: Kenichi
The Battle of Yu Yu Hakushou: Shitou! Ankoku Bujutsukai 120%
Spectral vs Generation
Soul Calibur III
Super DBZ

Game:* Super Smash Bro Melee
*Notes: *Play in Melee, Stock 4, Friendly Fire On, No Items, Stock Time can differ (at Evo its 6 minutes)

Level Selecting is a bit complex:
Pool A: Final Destination, Kirby’s Dreamland 64, Battlefield,
Yoshi’s Story, Pokemon Stadium, Fountain of Dreams.
Pool B: Mute City, Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise, Kongo Jungle 64,
Brinstar, Poke Floats, Corneria, Jungle Japes.

The stage for Game 1 will be selected at random from pool A. Any games after that can be from pools A or B.

After the stage has been selected by the losing player, the winner of the previous game may change characters, but has to pick first.

No stage may be used twice in any given set.

Glitches used to stop your opponent from controlling their character or indefinitely freezing them (Mewtwo’s Soul Stunner, the Ice Climber freeze glitch), or any glitch or trick that freezes the game or makes it unable to be finished are banned and will result in the immediate forfeit of the entire match.

#Tactics such as Peach’s Wallbombing and Jiggly’s Rising Pound are allowed as methods of recovery or to maneuver around the stage. Using them (or any similar tactics) to excessively stall a match, such as dropping below levels intentionally and stalling underneath, is banned. If by using one of these tactics, you have put your character in a place to lose a stock by ending the tactic, a judge may force you to stop and lose a life and continue the match short a stock.

*Tier: *

S: Sheik — Falco — Fox — Marth — Peach

A: Captain Falcon — Ice Climbers — Samus — Jigglypuff — Dr. Mario — Ganondorf — Mario

B: Luigi — Link — Yoshi — Roy — Donkey Kong — Pikachu

C: Young Link — Mr. Game & Watch — Zelda — Ness — Bowser — Kirby — Pichu — Mewtwo

Tier Type: Dominant
Banned Characters: None

(Edited: 20-04: Corrected tier lists)


#2

Fuck man how many people do you have interested? I think its pushing it when you try to get someone to learn more than 2 games tbh.


#3

Um, wow. This is actually a really cool idea. Good luck bro!

Most of those characters actually fit into top, except maybe Rolento.

You might wanna ban the hidden/boss characters though.


#4

Well nearly all the people involved are fairly proficient with the more common 3d console fighters; Tekken, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur etc. Its when it comes to 2d fighters that peoples experiences are more diverse or lacking. So in the end it would only be one or two games they would be learning. Im not going to be standing over them with a whip :wink: They can just get familiar with the basics or become as proficient as they wish. The “project” as such is more about generating a general buzz for fighters and providing a network than it is about pumping out uber gamers :wink: (obviously thats a lie and Im using the tournaments to cherry pick great fighters for my terrible bio weapons project/criminal organisation/alien army/line dancing squad :wink: )


#5

Um…no. Go look at Dark Geese’s Thread(first post) for an accurate tier list…there are some serious issues with that list…


#6

swap elena with ibuki in 3s and put ryu up a tier. that’s the actual “tiers” without an order or matchups to them really.


#7

Didnt listed UMK3…


#8

Alex needs to be higher on 3s, imo. I-no needs to be lower fo GG, too. Akuma is banned in AE and ce bison is Numba won.


#9

In GGXX/, you’ll probably want to ban Justice, Kliff, and all Shadow/EX/Gold characters.

Also, I think God Rugal and Shin Akuma are both usually banned in CvS2. Sometimes Orochi Iori. I think that’s more of a console vs arcade type of ban, though.


#10

IMO I think Ryu and Elena’s spots should be switched around.


#11

Did you just more or less copy those tier lists from Psychochronics tier list compliation?

That HSF2 tier list is quite shocking, but this is not what this thread is about.

I’m quite heavily involved with the UK scene, and seeing how things work in England, i think your being overly ambitious. Way too many games. Tier lists are nice n all, but not something i reccomend showing to lots of new players. Otherwise everyone will be picking the same characters.

I can’t imagine you have that many players atm, so i suggest sticking to a few staples. The big 3 in the UK atm are t5dr, 3s and hsf2. I’m not saying you should go with these games, thats just what is popular.

Best thing you can do is ask people what they want to play, and mix it up a little at your events and meetups. Hold a small tournament day, run a couple of tournaments and have some other games on for casual, see whats popular and push those games first.

Whne you start pushing those games, really build them up, don’t keep swapping games all the time, otherwise you’ll just end up with a small groups playing loads of different games. Focus on 2 or 3 games for 6 months, then add something else to roster.

Who knows, if you get going by the end of the year, you Paddys come over to England to play in Battle of Destiny (gonna be a biggest UK tournament since Absolution way back in 2004), and we can have a 5v5 with England vs Ireland in selected games.

Good luck
r3ko


#12

That’s changed a bit:

Top: Hayabusa,Ayane,Hayate,Jann Lee,Kasumi
Upper:Hitomi,Zack,Leon,Gen Fu,Christie,Kokoro
Mid:Lei-Fang,Tina, The Spartan,Helena, Ein
Low:Bass,Tengu,Bayman, elliot
Bottom:Lisa, Brad Wong

You may want to soft ban Hayabusa since he gets really unpopular with alot of non Haybusa players, but isn’t really broken.


#13

I got them from a number of different places, the KOF XI, KOF 98 and SS Tenka were the most up to date ones I could find on guardcrush, the GGXX/ one from dustloops, the T5DR from here. The VF5 one from Virtuafighter.com. I think I culled the rest of them from here, threads on this forum and psychotronic’s list I believe.

The tier lists were/are at least half for my own personal interests. I also think that being aware of the tiers could be useful when trying to get people interested, for example, if I have a few people who would like to get involved but arent able to/dont want to devote large amounts of time to practice then I think it would make sense to suggest one of the higher tiered characters to them. These characters are usually both more powerful and easier to use and as such serve as good “gateway” characters for new players. Well thats the theory at least.

I certainly agree that were I trying to push the list of games above that it would be foolishly overambitious, the plan certainly is to stick to three or four staple games, what this list is is essentially more or less every console fighter the core group involved have access to. So I thought I’d just list them all in order to collect whatever data I may need down the road in one place. I imagine based on what people have said and what they’re playing that the staple games will more than likely be T5/T5DR, SF3S and GGXX/.


#14

Haha, Thouther S, Jagi A & Raoh C in HNK.
That made my day.

S - Toki
A - Rei / Raoh / Juda / Kenshiro
B - Shin / Heart / Thouther
C - Mamiya / Jagi


#15

Thats weird, I thought I took the one linked to in this thread, evidently not :wink:


#16

THIS AIN’T A SCENE!!1

(its a goddamn arms race)

Game: Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike
Notes: None
Tier:

S: Yun — Chun Li — Ken

A: ** Makoto**

B: Urien — Oro — Yang — Dudley — Akuma

C: Necro — Alex — Elena —IbukiRyu

D: Hugo —Remy

E: Twelve — Q — Sean


#17

3s:

Ibuki should be dropped one, and maybe Oro as well.

Alex should NOT be higher than where he is.


#18

You guys should pick up Virtua Fighter 5.

I know that UK has some pretty beastly players like Ryan Hart in that. Not to mention is rather new with a lot of potential.

Plus you don’t need to worry about a tier list in that game. In a recent SoCal team tourney for VF5 an El Blaze player from Florida named Ladon raped everyone and like OCV’d a bunch of teams alot of which included characters like Shun, Kage, and Jacky lol.


#19

KOF 98 and KOF XI are two completely different games.

Orochi Iori and Evil Ryu are also banned in CvS2.
Here is also a better CvS2 tier list from top to "bottem"
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Capcom_vs_SNK_2

Those KOF 98’ tiers are inaccurate.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=126042
Probably the best tier list I’ve seen for the game is in there (post #10).

Overall though, I think you have the right idea for starting a scene in your area. Godspeed.


#20

You didn’t list ST.