I just performed the “ultimate” mod on my Sanwa JLF, and I’m tinkering with how much throw I’m giving it. Right now the stick doesn’t really travel past the click point; are there advantages to playing fighters that way? I would think that having as little throw as possible would mean less wasted movement and faster performance. Is there a benefit to more throw that I’m overlooking?
More throws give you more accurate input with less than delicate execution, because of the throw distance is stretched further, you have more chances to hit the direction you want and less chance to hit others by mistake, it takes longer to perform a complex move but it is more tolerate of mistakes as long as you do it right. It works well with beginner/intermediate level players since accurately perform a simple move is required where more refined complex combos do not enter the scene.
Wow, I couldn’t have explained better :tup:
So basically, a long throw trades speed for a greater margin for error?
FrakkinToaster, PillarOfHeaven basically said everything that needs to be said. Yeah, I guess you can also put it as trading execution speed for greater execution error tolerance. For fighting games, most people want the latter over the former which is why Sanwa’s JLF is so popular. But for games like SHMUPs, most people want quicker, more precise movements that do what you want it to do. I’m personally a fan of the latter group, those who prefer quick, precise movements (and also those who play SHMUPs quite a bit). It’s why I have a Seimitsu LS-32 in my arcade stick (for both fighters and SHMUPs). I did do the JLF Ultimate Mod, but I could never get the engage of the JLF to be within my preferred specs so I just stuck with my LS-32.
Wouldn’t an intermediate fighting game player want as short a throw as possible in order to train pulling off complex moves while forcing themselves to learn how to execute moves precisely? I mean, if you’re willing to trade speed for bad input forgiveness you’re probably not going to win much anyway, right?
In my opinion, throw shouldn’t be that important. I’m looking for the engage. I never really thought about it… but when I play and do some motions, I’m going so fast that I do not even hit the throw distance.
In fact… wouldn’t too little throw be a nuisance, especially when playing faster? Wouldn’t it get in the way because friction could slow it down?
No, beginners need more room for error since they arent used to the motions. ONce they have a good form they can then buy/mod a stick that suits their play style. Whether they refined their technique and want a stick with a very small throw or just alittle tighter than what the JLF offers in its stock form. Im an LS32 guy myself.
Just think about how many noobs wouldve quit playing since they couldnt do their moves correctly. Then who would we have to practice on at the arcades/online?
You have to consider the throw along with the engage. Since you’re already going through the trouble of modding your JLF, you might as well keep tinkering until things work out for you.
If the throw is short compared to the engage (i.e. they are almost the same, as in your case), the deadzone area will dominate. You need to go almost to the edge of the throw to engage, making many motions awkward. To hit a diagonal, you actually need to hit the corner itself. So you need to ride the gate right-up along the sides to the corner and over for a qcf. On the other hand, this setup might facilitate dashing well because you can tap the side, move back very slightly, and hit the side again to register two distinct motions.
If the engage is short compared to the throw, the deadzone will be relatively small. In this case, the diagonals are actually emphasized instead. This might feel pretty nice for a shmup, but I don’t think it works for fighters. The key problem is that the distance between what registers as up-right and down-right is too small (and symmetrically, any of the corner zones to an adjacent corner zone). So it may be difficult to find the cardinal directions when you’re swinging the stick around–problematic if you want to end on exactly right or down or left or up. e.g. stand blocking might be hard as you might jump back or crouch block instead. On the other hand, circular motions can be fairly haphazard, and you’ll still hit all the necessary directions. This is especially good for 360/720 where you don’t really care what the last direction is.
Aside from the ratio of engage/throw, you should keep in mind that a twofold increase in engage/throw doesn’t translate to a twofold increase in how long it takes to pull off motions. If the stick has small engage and throw, you may only be using finger motions to move the stick around. If the stick has a much larger engage and throw, you probably will naturally put wrist and even arm motions into the movements, thus speeding them back up somewhat.
There are quite a variety of throw and engage distances and ratios out there:
seimitsu ls 33 spring
does anyone know the demension of the seimitsu ls 33 spring because , im thinkin of doing the ultimate modd as well but dont want to order it from lizardlick and wait 3 weeks for a 97 cent part. when i can go to home depot and try to find a similar spring
I have stick with both the Sanwa and the LS-32. Both sticks aren’t modded.
I think, in the end, both sticks about even out in performance. It’s what you’re more comfortable with. The biggest issue for me with the Sanwa is, of course, the larger throw means that a lot of my short registers (I’m natively a Seimitsu player) don’t register.
However, on the LS-32 I find myself more often getting “lock wrist” where I try to double-tap in a certain direction and I just don’t put enough strength into the motion to move the tigher spring.
I think the perfect stick would be the LS-32 with the loose Sanwa spring.
Do you think I’d be better off shortening the engage or lengthening the throw?
I think I’m the minority here, but I love the JLW’s with it’s short throw distance and stiff spring. I think, JLW is probably better if you play SHUMPs.
The JLW felt like a REALLY beatup and worn out Happ Competition to me.
Which isn’t necessarily bad or nothing, just not my preference.
My favourite is the JLF left stock. I’ve tried the Ultimate mod and I’ve even tried the JLF Cherry mod (I would use the Cherry modded JLF for Tekken but not for any other game IMO. The switches didn’t return to neutral as reliably as I like for Street Fighter) and in the end I still prefer the JLF left alone in all it’s stock glory. It’s forgiving, doesn’t give me wrist cramp but it’s noisy but w.e.
LS-32 ftw. It just fits my preference. A little bit more stiff and shorter throw and engage = .
The good thing about these two is that although theres a noticable different it’s not that extreme of a difference. Sometimes I end up playing with a friend’s TE or something. After one or two games to warm up on it I’ll get used to the JLF again.
just leave it stock.