"Stop Being a Freebuki!" (Advanced Play Thread)

ibuki

#1

It hadn’t been done, so I figured we should start one. I’ve spent today really fine tuning my understanding of meaty kunais, and of course I don’t think I have it 100% but I got a way better idea of how to do what. I guess to get the ball rolling I’ll explain some simple setups I’ve devised today. I like to take one set up and see if I can come up with multiple viable options to keep my opponents not blocking.

What is the VORTEX?: The vortex is a way of forcing your opponent into a guessing game while he is waking up, with the goal being to make him guess wrong and put him back in the same exact situation. This is especially potent with Ibuki because of her neckbreaker move(hcf+p) due to it’s high stun component. The vortex is not a specific move on Ibuki or Akuma’s movelist, it is an application of her other moves to serve a higher goal. Read the rest of this post to learn some elementary set ups, and get you started on expanding these ideas to form your own vortex.

DISCLAIMER: The following setups were tested mainly on medium to small characters(to ensure I wouln’t be whiffing) like Ryu and Ibuki/Juri. Most of these Kunai setups are dangerous against non-standard reversals like spinning bird kick/pinwheel kick and even regular lariat(though I havn’t tested that extensively, and I might have just timed the lariat really well, or the kunai really poorly), and some ultras(some obvious, some less obvious). I also wouldn’t advise doing them on gief/t.hawk/hakan when they have ultra(any invincible grab is going to rape this set up since the kunai is super meaty and only active for a few frames tops, and there is like a million years of landing recovery). That said, they absolutely destroy regular DPs and will whiff them if they ex DP, usually affording you time to punish if you are paying attention. These setups are not 100% infallible or anything. Use them wisely!

Also: After any kunai setup, if you go for cr.lp there is a hole to reversal for the blocking opponent. That video says if you use s.lp then there is none, so maybe that should be used instead.

Off of a neck breaker: With out moving, if you super jump you can:
A: go for a cross up by throwing your kunai a little bit before you cross over the fallen opponent, or
B: Throw the kunai slightly before the point you would throw it for option A. This stops your upward momentum for the most part and starts Ibuki falling sooner than the other option. I havn’t tested it extensively, but I would imagine this could be slightly more dangerous against ex uppercuts and option B, so I would say default to B, and use this when they know what is going on in your meaty kunai game to throw them into a 50/50. If they manage to block it, you also have a chance to break their guard because Ibuki will still land on the far side of them just like in option A(if you did it right).Option B still isn’t remarkably early in the jump, its just a timing thing we’re all going to have to learn.

If you want you can regular jump and throw a very late Kunai. I couldn’t for the life of me get it to cross up in any of the times I tried to block it with the dummy doing the mixup, but it damn well looks like a cross up.

Off a normal jump, again with out moving, you will barely not cross up with a j.lk. If you just slightly step forward, or even roll from forward to up to mask the motion, you can get a pretty nasty cross up jump in.

Again, all setups off a neck breaker. The key to really being able to be creative with the situation is a good understanding of three things. 1: The trajectory of the Kunai. 2: Timing of opponent standing up. 3: How the kunai affects Ibukis jump momentum.

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For forward throw: This is a much less awesome situation. First move about 1 Ibuke length away from your opponent. You find your self in a similar situation to the regular jump followups to neck breaker. I can’t for the life of me get a kunai to cross up in this situation either, but again they look like cross ups. If you don’t throw a kunai, you get a pretty beast jumping cross up(I even got it to stuff ryu’s hp dp, but dangerous vs well timed ex dps it seems). Hopefully some one else has some more setups off this, though a fairly reversal safe 50/50 is pretty nice I guess.

**Random:**If you stand close to your opponent(like sweep to dash) and tk a lp kunai from a forward jump, it will give enough momentum to move ibuki to the other side of your opponent(this is on their wakeup). Good for beating non-ex dps, but I only could get it to combo on ch. Last thing, not quite vortex, but I think maybe useful: tk hp kunai avoids lows, and at the right distance combos into cr.lp on standing non-ch. Seems pretty nifty/safe.

Oh well, enjoy. Hope this helps some one, and of course every one else share up some of your tricks!

Edit: I’m kinda interested if any one has taken time to explore the workings of the post s.lp s.mp cr.hk s.hk reset? I’m thinking you might even be able to create a kunai mixup if you canceled the launcher into a weak command dash and jumped/super jumped. There’s always jump/sj to follow them, or hk/mk command dash to mix them up. I think funneling from neck breaker setups to this and back again, ect will give the best results.

Ibuki Crossup Okizeme
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2/23/11 - I’ve added another new vortex idea for Ibuki, using Sazan (DF+MK slide).
[media=youtube]AQsUyRwhxg0[/media]


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Ibuki Q&A Thread: Ask simple questions here!
#2

I feel like we dont really go through enough what we really should be doing in any one fight and the exact things to pressure with and how the okizeme changes for Ibuki from matchup to matchup.

Basically i want to divide it up where i can discuss block strings and pressure, matchups, okizeme between characters, best footsies/anti airs to use in each match etc.

Vortex Okizeme/Option Selects Part 1

General vortex strats. The idea of using vortex is u want to mix it up between kunai and regular jump normal crosses to keep people honest and mixed up. The hard part is knowing how to do it per different character’s hit boxes and learning how to do it against characters that have 4 and 3 frame reversals like Guy and Ryu that it difficult to apply jump normal cross up pressure on. There’s also the importance of being able to keep up the pressure if the kunai or j.LK/MK cross is blocked because as Ibuki if u dont try to at least land a throw or counter hit after a blocked jump mix up you lost a TON of momentum. Ibuki doesn’t have any way of closing the gap that doesn’t put herself at a lot of risk in a good bit of matchups so u wanna make the most of what u can even if u get blocked or risk spending another 10 to 20 seconds to MAYBE get in again. It’s specifically important to know what to do if your kunai gets blocked against a grappler like Gief who will grab you up the second u stop a block string you’re not careful.

So without further ado I’ll start listing an alphabetical order vortex strats for against all the characters. Specifically how to pressure and what escapes they have if any.

Terms:** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps** is describing whether or not you are putting yourself at risk of being hit by a reversal that can cause damage to you if you safe jump. Normally reversals that can hit u that are 5 frames start up or slower like Sagat’s or Ibuki’s u can jump forward at with say a j.LK cross and block in time should they DP (granted u know where you’re going to land). Which is why if you want to do a safe jump it’s best to not use it at as a mix up/cross up because if u try to make it ambiguous and dont know where you’re going to land u wont be able to safe jump in the first place because you’ll be guessing which way to block after the safe jump and get pwned. So if you need to cross up in a way that will bait a reversal to force meter out of the opponent make sure u know where you’re going to land or just dont try to cross up when doing the safe jump.

Against characters with 4 or 3 frame reversals it’s normally hard to impossible to jump in without getting hit. Certain 4 frame reversals like Dee Jay’s u can jump in with safe jump timing then if i recall correctly you can duck or hit a crouching normal to make the reversal whiff. Characters like Akuma and Ryu unfortunately have pretty nasty 3 frame reversals that u pretty much will get blown up for trying to safe jump. Which means against them you’ll have to find creative ways to jump outside of the range of their DP to make it whiff then punish. Then try to jump in again later when u have them scared to DP.
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Ability to backdash out of kunai** is important to note because some characters like Chun Li, Rose or Guy can easily backdash out of a non meaty kunai set up where they wont get touched at all or at worse will get hit by the kunai and reset for little damage.
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Ability to focus dash/backdash out of kunai. ** This is important to note because some characters again have really fast forward and back dashes that when combined with focus makes it easy to escape the the kunai vortex if done too predictably or loose with timing. Pretty much the same characters that are have really fast dashes can be good at this but even characters with slower damage can use this to get out of a clutch kunai situation.

**(ABEL) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of kunai: Not great
Ability to focus dash or backdash out: Decent
Other types of reversal/escapes: EX Marsailles roll which is unpunishable to any type of vortex mix and generally safe from option selects.

Generally against Abel u wanna take advantage with vortex as early as possible. He’s pretty much completely free to all aspects of the vortex (kunai or jump normal based) until he gets one EX meter. Once he gets one EX meter then he becomes a bit more of a chore to deal with. This is mainly because EX roll will get him out of anything u do vortex wise for free. The only thing ive found to catch up to him afterwards is OSing a backdash during a j.LK non cross up. It’s pretty much a free escape from kunai vortex so if he wants to use it to escape a kunai set up u pretty much have no choice but to let him burn the meter. That’s why it’s kinda optimal to j.LK/MK safe jump him when he has a lot of meter so u can hit him if he doesn’t EX roll and if he usually inevitably does u can stop it with a throw then immediately have a set up for instant kunai or f+MK overhead pressure that will punish an EX TT attempt. Which most Abels will normally try EX TT to stop any attack based pressure from you on the wake up so it’s good to have f+MK handy when they have meter to tell them to lay off the derp derp throw reversal. It’s also not a terrible idea to mix up with HK command dash on his wake up so that when it recovers it meaties right on his wake up as an ambiguous left right mix up and if he blocks the wrong way you get a free 4 hit TC4 or if u want more solid pressure incase he blocks u can just continue to pressure with c.LK or s.LP and move forward at him to frame trap or throw him again.
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(ADON) **4 or 3 frame reversal against safe jumps: LK rising jaguar (4 frame)
Ability to backdash out of kunai: Solid
Ability to focus forward/backdash out of kunai: Really Good
Other types of reversals/escapes: EX rising jaguar which beats the kunai during vortex. Fortunately the recovery on EX rising is so long u can reaction EX neckbreaker the recovery. Which means if you’re smart and have meter this is not a solid escape.

Against Adon u kinda can just mess with him on wake up at least i’ve found as far as safe jump crosses. The only thing is u have to time your safe jump a bit earlier because he gets up faster (which will be changed in AE). I know he does have a 4 frame reversal but against the Adon player i regularly play against any way he never normally tries to use it. Though I know if I had to fight against a better Adon worrying about the 4 frame reversal might be an issue. During kunai vortex you generally want to make sure again u start up the kunai a bit earlier than normal against his fast wake up. Luckily Adon’s huge hit box even if u mess up the meaty and hit him in a position where he crouches you’ll still be able to land TC4 pretty easily after. If he tries to use EX rising jaguar to escape like said above that can be deal with using EX neckbreaker on his recovery. His quick back/forward dash allows him to easily slip out of an obvious kunai vortex set up though so u have to be good at mixing things up so he doesn’t rely on this to escape.

(AKUMA) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: All DP’s (3 frame)
Ability to backdash out of kunai: decent
Ability to focus forward back dash out : decent
Other reversals: Teleport which is supposedly beaten on reaction during recovery with HP neckbreak but you first have to know which way akuma is going to teleport to even try. If he teleports behind u i would assume this is difficult to do. Ibuki can also OS neckbreak on a j.LK/MK jump in but again im not sure if this will auto correct and u might have to know which way akuma is going to even try it. I’ve tried it sometimes and find it very difficult to actually hit akuma with the neckbreak. Though if u dont want to OS Ibuki has a rather large screen clearance with her jump so if u know which way he’s going u can just jump towards him and punish the recovery.

This vortex with Ibuki vs. Akuma for me has proven to be rather tough. He’s practically your worst nightmare in ways when it comes to trying to vortex. A 3 frame reversal meaning u have to opt to strange jump ins that force him to whiff his DP then punish rather than actually try to hit him with the jump in. Plus teleport which ive found so far u kinda have to guess which way he’s going to take advantage of on a regular safe jump situation. You can OS but for me the OS’s have been kinda iffy as far as success rate. Apparently you can reaction punish his teleport after kunai vortex with HP neckbreak but, again i’ve personally had limited success with especially since if he goes behind u the game will just confuse your inputs and not let you follow him. It’s a match where u just kinda have to be really creative on wake up and keep him guessing. If you can read exactly what he’s going to do on wake up you can punish big with even basic stuff like jumping towards him after a teleport from a safe jump.

(BOXER) 4 or 3 frame reversal against safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Ok
Ability to focus forward/back out: Ok
Other reversals: EX headbutt which gets blown up by a good safe jump due to start up frames far longer than safe jump requirement. EX headbutt will escape him from kunai vortex rather easily though so safe jump is preferable if u think he’s going for that. EX dash straight and TAP will also both get him out of kunai vortex easily but safe jumps or walk up throws should keep those in check.

Using kunai vortex against Boxer can be kinda tricky due to his multiple escapes out of it but Balrog is generally free to safe jump and the only reversal he has that will save him from getting thrown on wake up is EX headbutt (which is slooow start up and rather unsafe on block). A quick note about EX headbutt also is that the recovery on whiff or block has been extended so this will become even more unsafe and even easier for Ibuki to exploit then. Early in the round you wanna try and get a knockdown on him before he gets one meter and force a kunai or 2 down on him early when his only escape out of vortex is TAP or focus dash which will be tough for him to think about doing on the fly especially when it’s easy to just throw him or jab him out of the start up. Once Balrog gets meter then u want to focus on just safe jump crossing the shit out of him. Balrog is generally free to traditional cross ups and j.LK hits at a good angle on his wake up even if he’s crouching on wake up. Pretty much just keep that up with the occasional HK command dash a bit before he wakes up if u want to change things up and keep him from using EX dash straights to escape your safe jumps. HK command dash is a nice alternative that can set u up for a kunai vortex if you’re quick enough with it also. Some Rog players will try to clutch EX dash straight escape your safe jump crosses so HK command dash on their wake up is a good way to instantly break their back charge. f+MK also works as a mini safe jump on his wake up that forces him to lose his down charge if he wants to block it correctly making it so he pretty much has no viable reversal to use if u meaty him with it. Which of course if u land this u can combo into s.LP or f+LK into whatever follow that. I know there’s probably some decent option selects against some of his wake up options but generally if you’re mixing things up enough against Boxer his free ass wake up is bound to get him hit by something. Just gotta be creative.

**(BLANKA) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: EX up ball 4 frame, Ultra 1 which is a 1 frame freeze, 3 start up (4 frames)
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Pretty good
Ability to focus forward or back out: Pretty good
Other reversals: EX rainbow roll (which can be OS EX DP’d or just mash jabbed out). Ultra 2 punch anti air version. This anti air ultra is 6 frame start up so it can be safe jumped without issue but if you try to kunai vortex Blanka when he has this available YOU WILL DIE. Be careful about using kunai vortex on U2 Blanka once he has meter or you’ll eat 500 damage before u can blink.

Blanka on wake up is REALLY tricky. This is another match where u want to land a knockdown early in the first round to take advantage of him quickly. Without any meter Blanka is free to all safe jumps and kunai vortex minus focus backdash out. You wanna just get in early in the round and get him blown up quick with kunai meaties and tick throws to blow him up. Once he gets even one EX meter things start to get tricky. His EX up ball is 4 frame start up which means if u try a traditional safe jump he can blow you out of your jump in because it works as a double sided DP basically. IIRC you can throw a kunai meaty behind him on his wake up with timing so that it will force the EX up ball to whiff. Which kinda works as a half option select where if he doesn’t do anything u either hit him with the kunai or he blocks and u get pressure and if he escapes u punish whiff ball with neckbreak and beat him up again forcing him to waste meter and be closer to free on wake up. Once Blanka gets a lot of meter on wake up that’s pretty much what u have to spend most of the round doing is getting him to blow the meter. If Blanka is using ultra 1 dont try to safe jump him since U1 is 4 frame start up and will blow up your safe jump unless u cross him up and even then u have to pray the ultra doesn’t auto correct. If you’re going to kunai vortex him when he has ultra 1 make sure you cross him up also and pray it doesn’t auto correct. Ultra 2 anti air can be safe jumped easily but if u try try to kunai vortex him and he goes for this…cross up or non cross up you will GET BLOWN UP. Dont kunai vortex a good U2 Blanka once he has the ultra stocked unless you really are feeling yourself for the mix up. If he just goes for it when u do kunai you’ll have an energized ninja that’s down 500 health.

**(CAMMY) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: None (but her DP has a a tricky hit box u must be aware of)
Ability to backdash out of kunai vortex: good
Ability to focus back foward dash out : really good
Other reversals: EX spinning backfist to escape kunai vortex. EX cannon spike also escapes kunai but has plenty of recovery and easy to HP/EX neckbreak or dash forward sweep on reaction.

Now Cammy despite looking free on wake up from the stats is still kinda tricky to deal with. EX spinning backfist is her only real way out of a meaty kunai vortex other than EX cannon spike and spinning backfist has so much recovery that im pretty sure you can dash up reaction punish it after kunai whiff. Although she doesn’t really have a DP you can’t safe jump it has a funny hit box that can be tricky to safe jump sucessfully if she’s mashing on it. You’ll definitely want to make sure you know where you are going to land if you are going to jump in on Cammy or her reversal will blow you up. Kunai vortex can work against her but the spacing is really tricky since her DP pushes her forward away from the kunai and her small hit box evades the kunai rather easily if your spacing isn’t tight. It can be tough to kunai vortex her if she’s in the corner because of this. Plus if u time your kunai vortex incorrectly the hit box can even stuff you out of teh vortex so u wanna make sure your timing is good so that at worst she’ll just whiff the DP behind u and u can reaction punish with HP/EX neckbreak or dash up sweep.

**(CHUN LI) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of kunai: Very good
Ability to focus forward/back out: Very good
Other reversals: EX SBK. Easy to safe jump being a 6 frame reversal and there’s a meaty just frame timing that allows u to crouch inside of the EX SBK on her wake up and punish with big combo. Unfortunately EX SBK is like the perfect anti kunai vortex tool and blows up kunai free.

Chun Li on wake up is easy but difficult at the same time. Mainly because her only real regular reversal on wake up is EX SBK which is easy to safe jump. The issue lies in the fact that Chun Li has a stupid good backdash that you will pretty much have to OS or predict sweep to keep her down on wake up after a throw or cross up. This is a character i want to talk about more in depth about how to deal with on wake up because of her ability to mash backdash easily out of your pressure. Her backdash is so good even that if u dont time your kunai super meaty her backdash will either full escape her from the kunai or force her to get hit airborne and escape vortex. EX SBK also blows up kunai vortex for free and because it hits double sided there’s no way to throw the kunai to make the reversal whiff. You’re going to get hit and thrown to the other side of the screen for free if you try to kunai vortex her when she has any meter. Definitely preferable to get in early and score what kunais u can before she gets meter and you’re reduced to regular jump ins and frame trap pressure.
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(CODY) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to avoid safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Ok
Ability to focus forward/back out: Ok
Other reversals: None that beat safe jumps or kunai vortex

Not really going to go into much detail on Cody’s wake up since it’s pretty self explanatory he’s one of the most free characters on wake up to pressure. Plus AFAIK none of his reversals seem to save him from kunai vortex so u can pretty much shove jump normal or kunai vortex down his throat till he’s dead. His only hope being focus out which will get blown up by safe jumps. Basically knock him down and win.

**(C.VIPER) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to avoid safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus forward/back out: Good
Other reversals: EX seismo/seismo feint which will beat a meaty kunai vortex but will lose to a delayed non meaty due to vulnerable recover frames. HP Thunder knuckle which will also beat meaty kunai but again lose to delayed vortex. EX burn kick is probably her safest escape out of vortex but I think u might be able to catch her recovery with at least EX neck break.

C.Viper is another tricky character on wake up when it comes to using kunai vortex. Luckily though she’s pretty much free as all hell to safe jumps especially when backed up with OS EX kazegiri. If she does any reversal on wake up and u safe jump in with OS EX DP it will blow her up out of any reversal she does and net you counter hit damage due to the slow start up on all her reversals. Her fastest reversal is EX burn kick which is still 6 frame start up and dies to block or OS DP’s. HP thunder knuckle is one frame slower and on top of losing to all of the things that EX burn kick loses to she can also be thrown out of it. HK command dash on her wake up is also great for baiting out and blowing up her EX seismo on wake up. When concerning the kunai vortex u’ll definitely want to use it on her to augment your mix up but u have to be careful about how you use it. Using normal meaty kunai timing to beat 2 of her 3 main reversals will get u blown up. If you try to meaty kunai and she does EX seismo without crossing her up you will get blown up into ultra. Even if u cross her up if she does ex seismo feint she recovers and can then back throw u and put u into a free 50/50 j.HK mix up which is basically death if it hits. HP Thunder knuckle will either hit you or escape her from meaty kunai. So basically what u have to do is delay your timing with the kunai a bit so it hits more meaty on her long invincible reversals and you’ll be able to hit her and vortex her as normal. EX burn kick will get her out of any vortex but if u do a meaty kunai and she escapes with burn kick I think u can EX neckbreak punish. Can’t remember tho. Generally whatever u do u want to just make sure u land hits on her and keep her guessing with jab pressure, tick throws and command dash mix ups. Dont let her get away once u get in just regurgitate mix ups and pressure in her face all day till she succumbs to something.

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(DAN)** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal against safe jumps: DP (4 frame start up on all DP’s).
Ability to backdash out of kunai vortex: Really good
Ability to focus forward/back out: Really good
Other reversals: None

Dan has a 4 frame DP which means u can’t really safe jump him as normal without worrying about getting hit by his DP which does solid damage and sets up for FADC U2. You’ll have to kinda condition him with other pressure first or use fake cross up to bait the DP’s AFAIK now. Im still trying to figure out ways to deal with 4 and 3 frame DP’s so once I do I’ll have more info. Generally though the only big thing u have to worry about as far as kunai vortex is concerned is his backdash. If u are not super meaty with your kunai vortex he can backdash out for free and punish u with a combo on your recovery. Meaning against Dan u want to make sure your timing is tight or he’ll slip out like soap.
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(DEE JAY) ** 4 or 3 frame reversal to avoid safe jumps: EX jack knife maximum (flash kick like move). 4 frame.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to foucs forward/back out: Good
Other reversals: LK jacknife maximum which gets him out of cross up kunai vortex pretty free from I’ve seen. Which the mix up then is once he has meter u can’t really meaty him with a non cross up kunai either. You can bait EX jacknife with cross up kunai and punish the whiff from behind with walk up target combo. EX double rolling sobat will shoot him out of vortex for free also. You might be able to dash up and jab him as a punish but i can’t remember now.

Dee Jay is one of those characters that you’ll be safe jumping more than anything else. He has too many ways to escape kunai vortex to make it really viable on him and his EX jacknife (flash kick) I believe loses to an early jump into crouch since it can’t hit crouching people. Again I’ll need to do more studying on 4 frame reversals to figure out if u can safe jump it. I would assume that like Guile his EX jackknife wont auto correct so if anything the best thing to do if you are going to try to safe jump him is to cross him up to limit the chance of getting reversed. Though there is always the possibility of u getting auto corrected on so your timing would have to be tight if it’s even possible. From the match vids ive seen people usually just jump at him from a slight distance with jump MK then crouch normal to bait reversal. Then just pressure him on the ground with jabs and throws till u can break him down. HK command dash on his wake up once in a while to deter EX rolling sobat use.

(DHALSIM) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of kunai vortex: Not good
Ability to focus forward/backdash out: Not good
Other reversals: EX yoga flame which is 5 frame start up and safe jumpable. Teleport which obviously starts on first active frame. Beats kunai vortex for free obviously but loses to OS neckbreak.

Dhalsim is generally kinda free on wake up outside of his teleport which can be OS neckbreaked or OS tsumuji’d if he’s in the corner. Dhalsims will tend to backdash sometimes on wake up so be ready for that and occasionally sweep or OS neckbreak them. His ability to teleport out of kunai vortex means most of your vortex will be OS safe jump based on him until u can get him to stop teleporting and backdashing.


#3

Vortex Okizeme/Option Selects Part 2

(DUDLEY) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: EX jet upper at 4 frame start up.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Ok
Ability to focus out: Ok
Other reversals: Cross counter which beats safe jumps (3 frame start up) but gets blown up by kunai vortex.

Dudley on wake up is interesting. If you’re safe jumping him you have to be weary about his 4 frame start up EX jet upper. I haven’t really tested this much on wake up since against kunai vortex specifically though since I’ve never fought a Dudley yet strangely with the balls to try to EX jet upper out on wake up. I would assume if he does get out of kunai with it the recovery would make it so he basically gets away for free. Unless the kunai somehow stuffs the DP which i doubt. For the most part though Dudleys that I’ve fought tend to save their meter on wake up and just try to block it out. Cross counter gets blown up by kunai vortex so that’s a non issue. One specific thing u have to remember about this matchup though is that if u cross dudley up with a kunai or j.LK his hit box is really strange and will force the 4 hit version of TC4 to whiff if u cross him up then start a combo due to push back. You have to make sure u use the 3 hit version of TC4 when crossing him up or risk dropping the combo and getting mashed on.
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(E.HONDA) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Ok
Ability to focus out: Ok
Other reversals: EX headbutt which can be safe jumped and stuffed by meaty kunai. All buttslams which can all be safe jumped. All buttslams can be punished with sweep or neckbreak if used to escape vortex.

Generally IMO Honda is free on wake up to Ibuki. Her ambiguous cross up shenanigans will break his back charge quickly and he can be safed jumped on without issue. U just have to know where you’re going to land on a safe jump so u can block an inevitable EX headbutt. f+MK on his wake up if he doesn’t have a bunch of meter isn’t a bad idea to break up his down charge and further pressure him. Kunai vortex stuffs all headbutts and u can punish all buttslams on reaction. If he does LK buttslam to escape punish with sweep. Any other buttslam use HP neckbreak.

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(EL FUERTE)** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Really good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX Run to escape kunai vortex. EX guacamole escapes kunai vortex also IIRC and i think if u dont cross up quickly enough he can EX guac u out of it.

More detailed explanation after i figure out more.

(FEI LONG) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Really good
Ability to focus out: Really good
Other reversals: Flame kick which can be safe jumped and is death if he uses it against kunai vortex due to going straight up and whiffing right in front of you. HK/EX chicken wings are free escapes from kunai vortex and EX chicken wing is unpunishable on whiff. Easily safe jumped or beaten with crouch normals though.

More info later.

**(GEN) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: OK
Ability to focus out: OK
Other reversals: LK gekirou (DP) that has 5 frame start up but still safe jumpable. All other gekirous are seven frame start up and hella easy to safe jump. They all get blown up by kunai vortex.

More info later.
**
(GOUKEN) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: Kongo/Counter (1 frame start up). Empty jump his ass or get blown up.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: OK
Ability to focus out: OK
Other reversals: EX demon flip to escape safe jumps but can be punished on the way down. Not sure if kunai vortex meaties this. EX hurricane kick which is super punishable if not FADC’d. Counter is obviously the biggest hurdle since it’s one frame start up and blows away both you and the kunai since kunais aren’t projectiles.

The okizeme for this matchup is really weird so ill get into it more later.
**
(GUILE)** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: Somersault/Flash Kick at 4 frames.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: None

          Okizeme in this match is pretty simple.  He has a 4 frame reversal that can be crossed up easily so just try to cross him up most of the time when safe jumping him so that he can't auto correct flash kick you.  Least ive found it's usually hard for guile players to get it to auto correct and it has no hit box in the back.  Not a bad idea to HK command dash on his wake up once in a while to make him lose his back charge and ability to give himself space to boom you after wake up.  f+MK is good for breaking his down charge if he wants to flash kick but at 4 frame start up a reversal may catch the overhead.  Basically u just wanna get kunai vortex rolling on him as quickly as possible since his only reversal can't save him from it really.

**(GUY) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: EX tatsu 4 frame start up.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Really good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX Run to escape kunai vortex. EX tatsu to beat safe jumps. His small hit box makes it so if u whiff kunai at all you get fucked up by free combo.

More info later.

**(HAKAN) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: Ultra 2 (1 frame start up)
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Poor
Ability to focus out: Poor
Other reversals: U2 is his only viable reversal against any of Ibuki’s okizeme but extremely good.

More later.

**(IBUKI) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: OK
Ability to focus out: OK
Other reversals: EX DP at 5 frame start up which is safe jumpable. Otherwise free on wake up.

More later.
**
(JURI) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: Kasatushi/Counter. 3 frame start up for regular, one frame start up for EX
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX senpusha which is 7 frame start up and easily safe jumped or thrown during start up frames.

More later.

(KEN) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: LP shoryu at 3 frame start up to force trade. EX shoryu at 4 frame start up.
Ability to backdash out of vortex:Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: None

More later


#4

Vortex Okizeme/Option Selects Part 3

(MAKOTO) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX Oroshi to stop kunai vortex which can be punished on whiff with c.LP to combo. At 18 frame start up plus recovery that’s not too good. EX karakusa i believe will absorb the kunai also and at 5 frame start up is probably her best escape barring the length of recovery though I haven’t had any Makotos use that escape on me yet to test the viability.

More later.
**
(M.BIPSON)** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Really Good
Other reversals:EX psycho gets him out of kunai vortex free but can be OS’d with EX DP. EX head stomp will get him out but is punishable on recovery as long as u safe jump. EX devil reverse gets out of everything but has punishments depending on where he tries to land I believe. Teleport obviously escapes kunai vortex easy but can be OS’d with HP neckbreak. When he has U2 only safe jumps are viable. U2 will hit u out of kunai vortex for free.

Definitely the most complicated of characters to okizeme along with Akuma so I’ll go more in depth later.

(ROSE) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX soul spiral at 13 frame start up but can be OS EX DP’d during safe jumps or jabbed out of if u have perfect timing. Otherwise just block and punish as far as safe jumping is concerned. Gets her out of kunai vortex for FREE. EX Soul Throw gets her out of kunai vortex for FREE but can be safe jumped at 6 frame start up. Ultra 2 can be safe jumped at 1 freeze +4 start up frame (5 frame start up) to absorb one hit with a block after safe jumping. Which of course only works if the Rose actually does the ultra. Kills all kunai vortex except a PERFECTLY spaced super jump kunai. Can’t wait for AE.

More later.

(RUFUS) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: OK
Ability to focus out: OK
Other reversals: EX messiah to escape kunai vortex but can be punished with HP neck break or dash up throw/combo. EX messiah easily safe jumped at 11 frame start up. Ultra 2 destroys all kunai vortex setups but is easily safe jumped at 10 frame start up. EX snake strike i believe can get him out of a poorly timed kunai vortex but easily safe jumped at 7 frame start up.

More later.
**
(RYU) **4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: All DP’s at 3 frame start up. LP DP tends to break up kunai vortex and reset him out if timing isn’t perfect. Need to do more research. All other DP’s make him whiff and punishable with HP neckbreak.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: None.

Typical matchup against a character that has derpy 3 frame reversals. I’ll have more info on this later after more research.

**(SAGAT) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Poor
Ability to focus out: Poor
Other reversals: All DP’s at 5 frame start up. All get blown up by kunai vortex and all are safe jumpable.

More later.
**
(SAKURA)** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps:None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: EX shououken which is easily safe jumpable at 12 frame start up. Kunai vortex blows it up also making her whiff like crazy and a sitting duck for HP neckbreak or dash up combo.

Generally as free on wake up as Cody. Not much else to explain immediately.

(SETH) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps:None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: OK
Ability to focus out:OK
Other reversals: All of his DP’s that all have 5 frame start up so can be safe jumped. Teleport which gets him out of kunai vortex but easily OS’d. EX lightning legs will beat a poorly spaced non cross up kunai vortex or get him to fly out of a cross up kunai. Im going to assume there’s enough time to punish with something but u have to be quick about it. Have to research more. Both of his ultras will hit u out of kunai vortex if u dont cross him up.

More later.

**(T.HAWK) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: None
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Poor
Ability to focus out: Poor
Other reversals: EX tomahawk (DP) at 5 frame start up so can be safe jumped. Gets him out of kunai vortex for free. Better off just safe jumping and jumping away after target combo if he blocks. If he has U1 this is especially important because if he blocks kunai u must target combo or jab then jump away or you will get grabbed for free.

(CLAW) 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: HK and EX scarlet terror at 4 frame start up.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Good
Ability to focus out: Good
Other reversals: U2 is his only viable reversal against Ibuki’s kunai vortex. Which it can be punished on whiff with EX neckbreaker. If you already have Claw close to stunned and he tries to escape with this EX neck breaker pretty much becomes a game winner with a stun.

More later.

**(ZANGIEF) ** 4 or 3 frame offensive reversal to escape safe jumps: Lariat 4 frame start up. Though I’ve noticed that Ibuki players will still tend to safe jump him on wake up and end it up doing it with success so I’ll have to research this. Lariat gets blown up by meaty kunai vortex.
Ability to backdash out of vortex: Poor
Ability to focus out: Poor
Other reversals: EX german suplex has 2 frame start up and will escape him out of kunai vortex and grab u up if he times it right. EX green hand gets him out but is easily safe jumped at 13 frame start up. Same deal as T.Hawk where if he blocks your jump in or kunai be ready to target combo into jump away to get away from getting grabbed or lariated. Dont jump forward or neutral jump if he blocks your kunai on wake up or you basically die. Just jump in whatever direction is completely away from him after the kunai.

More later.


#5

Is it exactly the same/more or less the same as sweep? I just personally don’t see any reason to use that over neckbreaker considering that almost everything that combos into qcb+k combos into neck breaker(except for comboing in the corner of course).


#6

I find myself using Tsumuji a lot more than Neckbreaker once I get the vortex going. If you happen to miss a link somewhere its safe on block and does more chip.


#7

Is it just me, or is the cr.lp to s.mk link way harder than it has to be? What do you plink with it, because it seems like all the light attacks are chains off the cr.lp so plinking it with s.mk is pretty worthless. I am getting the link a lot more as I play, but it still feels crappy when I confidently go into a neck breaker after my s.mk gets blocked :sad:


#8

Sometimes you’ll get guys crouching the kunai mixup and hitting them. If that is the case, agaisnt guys who are Ryu size, the LP MP target combo will whiff. I think you have no choice but to c.lp s.lp s.mk --into whatever you want.

So either be on point 100% (you can get them standing even if they are holding down) or get ready to go for your B combo.


#9

in order to be safe you should always do the one hit version of of mp in the target combo if you havent confirmed a hit kunai. you will do less damage if the opponent gets counterhit or something… but in the event that they block, you will be safe cause the first hit of medium punch isnt duckable.

mainly my goto combo on hit or block is lp,mp(1hit),fp.

its non duckable and leaves ibuki at +1. which means that her st.lp will beat any non invincible attack that the opponent throws out…that target combo is good for pressure.

i only do the 2 hit version when ive confirmed via a hit kunai,jumpin or punish something like a wiffed srk.

in order to mixitup, cancel the last fierce into mk tsumuji on block or hit in order to give the opponent a different look and keep them from guess reversaling the lp followup after blocked fierce.

-dime


#10

is Tsumuji safe on block after the LP MP HP TC? Or only because it pushes them back so far? I was just using the 2 hit MP to hit confirm, and if it was blocked ending the combo with the HP to keep it safe. Since the MP does have whiffing problems, the option to have the HP xx MK tsumuji keep it safe is great.

Only problem is if i start to do the TC without MP hitting twice, my fingers get used to the faster speed and I botch the 2 hit MP that I use to buffer the SJC ultra


#11

Max range sweep should setup vortex safely for immediate sj LP kunai. Which is important in my opinion because the link from far s.LP to sweep is brain dead easy. I would much rather get the untechable knockdown from c.LP, c.LP, s.LP, c.HK, than try the 1-frame c.LP, s.MK xx.


#12

if you can get c.jab, c.jab, s.jab, c.rh, u can also get c.jab, c.jab, s.jab, s.fwd xx neckbreaker


#13

what vasaznion said. Neckbreaker is a must @@ sets up the perfect situation for complete ambiguous kunai mixups. On any possible character that you can land a st. jab on, you need to be comboing into s. fwd xx neckbreaker. (Rather then a sweep/random other moves) s. jab pressure on big characters is huge too. There’s a giant window when you hit a stand jab that’ll let you confirm straight into vortex.


#14

Hiya to everyone Im from the u.k and the game just came out today and im loving it, I did my best to main Gouken and am fairly happy with my skils, But now I have decided to have a go with Ibuki. Well her move list looks really complexed with the Target combos, I have bought the strategy gude as well today and keep seeing the Vortex move listed in threads and the book also mentions it but i cannot find the correct motions for it listed. Is it some kind of terminology refering to a set of moves, Thanks for any help and hope everyone playing is loving the game.
MY PSN TAG = TheBiggDirty


#15

Vortex just refers to a set of crossups and mindgames that you start to do after you knock someone down.

In ibuki’s case, the vortex will usually start once you land a neckbreaker. Watch [media=youtube]B1jcbtwl99Q"[/media] to see some of the kunai vortex crossups/setups that are possible with her.


#16

If jab -> s.forward is giving you problems you could always jab -> target combo 9(short xx forward) -> what ever special you want. yes is does scale a bit, but the link is considerably easier.

Edit: Recommend you learn to kara link thou, don’t be lazy is free damage


#17

The LK version is always safe on block.


#18

ok so this post may end up being tldr or it may end up being… useless… but perhaps it will actually be good info… this is my standard okizeme dash mixups aftera forward throw… i honestly get ALOT of my overall gameplay damage from these mixups, however others may have less than stellar results i guess… anywho here they are and how i came up with some of them and what the thinking behind some of the mixups is ie whether or not the mixup is a blocking mixup or whether its a mixup based on getting a certain read on a specific type of player:

first of all let me say that NONE OF THESE MIXUPS WORK VERY WELL AS A STANDALONE MIXUP… its kinda like akumas vortex in that regard… you really have to use all of the 3 different mixups i describe here if you want them to be effective… otherwise, timing and pschological tells will rear there heads and make the mixups pale to what they could be.

mixup 1: THE ONLINE SCRUBBUSTER:

forward throw> stand still for a sec> hk command dash and then ex kazekiri on the other side of the opponent

(this version is my most frequent first timer against someone that has never played me before… it hits 99% of my opponents the first 2 times i do it and hits like 20% of the people EVERYTIME i do it.)

mix it up with a obvious throw instead of the ex kazekiri when the opponent starts blocking.

now the second part of that is is instead of doing a hk command dash ypu instead do a mk dash and launch into a target combo… the effect is to make them think that you will cross them up but instead stay in front of them, which will make them block the wrong way.

this is the first mixup i came up with and i still use it with rather startling success… even though the mixup in itself is both scrubby and should only work against scrubs… ive actuallly hit alot of very good players with this mixup, biggest problems with it is that its less useful offline than online and is quite meter dependent if you try and use it as a standalone. you CAN substitute a regular kazekiri if you want to be stingy woith your meter, but its more risky that way cause regular kazekiris have way less invincibilty to stuff normals plus the ex version will actually stuff non ex dp type moves and even some ex versions, also regular ones cant be followed up with lp kunai which makes them a bit safer.

so that is my first mixup and it still works but not when used as a standalone mixup… good opponents can read the mixup and block correctly or guess there way out consistently…

so 2 more mixups are needed.


mixup 2, UPCLOSE AND PERSONAL:

this is a very basic variation on mixup 1 but it has different followups… the look before this mixup can throw people off when expecting some form of mixup 1.

forward throw>WALK BACKWARDS SLIGHTLY about a character length or so> hk command dash> target combo

or

forward throw> walk backwards slightly about a character length or so>mk command dash> target combo

this is the big bang of the 3 mixups as both versions of this lead into target combo into neckbreaker or target combo into launch against characters that cant duck the launcher hit on block.

the reason for the walk backwards , besides the fact that it looks different from mixup 1, is the fact that walking backwards before the hk command dash leaves ibuki right in her opponents face after the crossup which means that she is close enough to target combo… she isnt close enough to target combo from mixup 1 cause she will get out a far lp instead. against smaller characters.

now this mixup once again isnt amazing when used as a standalone by itself… it really isnt a true blocking mixup if the opponent can get used to seeing it they can react to the crossup and block, however when used in combination with mixup 1 and 2 there is too much info to process as to what ibuki is doing exactly to make a decent judgement as to what is going to happen.

mixup 3 the EDF or the evil drakefang,

i post this cause i first saw it a few hours back done by edf and it seemed like a really good option for dash mixups on ibukis forward throw, seems more ambiguous than the ones that i came with although it ultimately still looks react blockable if abused.

forward throw>IMMEDIATE hk command dash>immediate hk command dash again>cr.lp linked into st.mk xx whatever.

or

forward throw>immediate hk command dash>immediate mk command dash> target combo or throw or whatever… i woiuld probably always go for target combo here as it gives the most damage and followups.

now the edf looks really solid, but i havent tested it yet, so… go figure. but i will be using it you can bet that.

and finally there are 2 more options to have even though i dont think they are really THAT needed, they are still good to have in a pinch as a different look:

  1. the hk command dash then jump back ex kunai or hp kunai ( i do this when im not really sure what my opponent will do or when i dont need to put my ass on the line in the form of getting reversaled… like i have the lead against someone that i can clearly beat if i dont do anything stupid.)

i also use it as a get out of the corner option of course when i’m in the corner…

so yeah thats it… a long writeup for a rather simple subject i know. but thats how i use the first 2 mixups… the edf is going to be DOPE though… i can feel it. i already almost win matchups off one throw into mixups off of my first 2 mixups so adding this third one in is really going to pump up the cheese.

hope this helped some people… i still watch a ton of ibuki replays where all the ibuki does after a forward throw is jump back kunai…EVERYTIME… which is lame to pass up on such a golden damage opportunity.

also for obvious reasons this works best versus characters that dont have down up charge type of moves… those things cant be crossed up easily although i have had my timing down so well that they reversal in the wrong direction!!!

but generally against those huys you have to add in the not so fun option of gah… BLOCKING sometimes…

-dime


#19

As far as Tsumuji or Neckbreaker in combos goes you dont quite get that perfect setup from Tsumuji but you can complete the last hit really late so you can take the 3 mid version for chip or sweep for untechable KD after seeing if the move you special canceled hit. Neckbreaker is better on paper but when you fuck up instead of being reset to midrange you are right in front of them to eat a combo… In a few months when my links are crispy I’m gonna be on that Neckbreaker but for now Tsumuji is my shit. But I also turtle like a bitch so I like my chip damage and I use Tsumuji in block strings to apply it


#20

Dime, with a lot of those mixups you are relying on her command dash. Have you found that the recovery of it makes it so they can jam spam you out of it? Whenever I try to mix them up on wake with sidecrossing games, they just jab spam me right through it. Also, I have had trouble doing LP MP HP TC meaty on their wakeup, the jab doesn’t have enough active frames (or i just suck at timing it)

In general… I like her dash, but the recovery seems so long

also… we really need a private ibuki thread somewhere… so we can actually have a thread without being spammed by people trying to do trials and other random questions. :confused: There are a lot of skilled players, but the posts get lost in the drivel