sToRm/StRiDeR/DoOm

strider-hiryu

#1

Alrighty, back into the marvel game and I will be experimenting with this team for a good while because I really believe in the potential this team has.

I know that this team receives a lot of negative comments about not being as good as sentinel/strider/doom. I understand where they are coming from as well. However, I just prefer to believe that the pros to this team outweigh the cons to not having drones aka better defense.

Pro-s
1)I believe there is no other strider/doom team out there that can generate more meter for strider
2)I believe in the power of storm/strider dhc of semi-death. I am still waiting on my stick but I get the chance to occasionally practice some and a lot of the time, off of the storm la xx ls dhc orbs, I can get back at least 1/2 of the meter used in DHC’ing due to strider jumping up with j.lp’s. not to mention this leads you directly into the trap 100% of the time.
3)I actually believe in the power of storm/doom. As hard as it is to get the momentum with storm/doom. Once you get them on the defensive, storm/doom is a hard duo to get off your ass. Sidenote, I do not believe (as many people say) that storm can not use meter to preserve her life and should save it for strider. Say if somebody is keeping my storm/doom out by calling craploads of assist and putting mucho crap on the screen. I need to hailstorm their assist so it does not block as me as much. As soon as you can get the point character to block, he should be in blockstun for a little second, and you should be very safe building good meter.
4)Although minor, a perk to using storm also could be that Doom (providing that he has two meters and doesn’t mind using them) can avoid guardbreaks very well almost all the time since he has both strider and storm to dhc to.
5)For some reason, I like using doom with storm’s assist better than sentinel’s assist. Call me crazy but I do. It helps when you are trying to buy time to get doom out and whoever back in due to the fact that sometimes when you go too high, sentinel’s drones disappear, while tornado’s never =) so that makes j.fp, call nado, sj ad/u pink things x 2 a fairly good way to buy that necessary time.

Con-s (and how to try to make up for them)
1)lack of drones. simply put, the angle the drones come in at in the normal jump field makes coming in and getting the hit very difficult sometimes against strider. Some like sentinel’s drones better for offense as well, but I can live without, storm’s horizontals do just fine for me right now.
2)“Sent/Doom>Storm/Doom.” This is what I keep seeing from many threads. I am going to work to make this myth, but you will lack the ability to pin opponents down from a safe and far distance. Also, you lose the role of a PURE battary (even if it is a slower builder in general, sentinel really has no need to use a super at all until DHC). I do believe though, that storm is just superior to sentinel in meter building and stocking for strider. I also feels like she can build one meter so fast that it doesn’t matter if she uses some of strider’s meter to maintain the lead of the first match and to get your opponent thinking about tagging before you.

How this team should be played-
Now I am just starting with this team, but I have this general jist i shoot for every game with this team. If I can block until I gain momentum of the match by making my opponent block doom’s rocks, and stay on them or near them with pressure/meter building strings, that I have a good chance of winning the first matchup. I feel that one of the differences in storm/s/d and sent/s/d is that it takes a weakness of strider/doom (cyclops and all the other invincible aaa’s) and puts them to the test. If your storm/doom duo beats the opponents first duo, they should have to come get you down out of the skies. If you build 4 meters with storm then DHC into strider, they will be in the trap longer than ever before.

I guess in short I can say this
-storm/duo gains momentum by making opp block rocks
-take out first duo you fight (or make them alpha counter)
-runaway until you have almost 3.25 or 4 meters
AT THIS POINT
-if you hit them with sj.lk’s it really should be ggpo with strider doom sitting back there with all that meter AND strider builds half of it back ON the dhc. They will be in trap so long they will hate you.

Well, that is it for now, I will write more later but I am tired. I would like genuine suggestions about this team and how to improve my game with this team. or maybe whats a better gameplan? all suggestions are welcome =)


#2

nice post.

I believe in all s\d teams with any of the top 4 on them even magnus along with some top 20 people. I have my doubts about this team but you can get any team to work as long as you’re willing to put the work into it. As with ssd, storm\s\d will also have defensive problems. Its a handicap to any team with no AA on it. Its good to see people picking other s\d teams because they all give strider different options.

in a purely duo perspective, i’d pick storm\doom over sent\doom but you have to remember that strider is the key to the teams chemistry and sent just helps striders game more than storm imo. Drones are too powerful.

I like storms headbutt assist type. If it makes contact, it sends point\assist into the air for bomb+activate setups. Kinda gimmicky but I like it.

i’m intrested to see some match vids of some storm\s\d.

A good plus that I do see to it is that if you somehow manage to get 5 bars and dhc to strider and he dies fast, you can have storm really play her game and bait assist and hail or AC into air super.

but if you were to ask me whats better storm\s\d with 5 bars or sent\s\d with 2-3 i’d probably wouldn’t be able to make up my mind. I believe in the drones and sent as point too much.


#3

I understand where you’re coming from, and there are some valid points in there about how storm/strider/doom is legit that I didn’t see before. But I dunno… I believe in the power of Storm, I mean she IS the most versatile character in the game but as far as team chemistry goes I just don’t see how she could offer Strider/Doom as much as Sentinel brings to the table. Like Shoult said drones are irreplaceable. They are soo important to Strider’s game… not to say typhoon assist isn’t good, i mean it clears the floor and eats up projectiles but I am hesitant to see any Strider/Doom squad played without drones.

I would rather go with Cable/Strider/Doom or Cyclops/Strider/Doom than Storm/S/D. Both of the above characters offer an AA, while IMO Storm Typhoon assist or any other assist she has for that matter can replace drones. If I ever am crazy enough to replace drones I will go with an AA. Then again I’m no Storm player but that’s just how I see it. Good post though, you bring up some beastly points and you make me want to put my skepticism aside and give this team a try. But until I see or hear of someone play Storm/S/D srsly I will maintain that the team will never be as effective as Sent/Strider/Doom. I used to think Cable/Strider/Doom was garbage until I saw Eddie Lee use it. Now I think it’s quite viable. It looks like you have your work cut out for you, haha.

There is a reason why Sentinel has remained over the years as the #1 partner for Strider/Doom in light of the evolution of the game, and I don’t know about other Strider players but I am a bit skeptical of a Strider team with anyone besides Sentinel on it ever coming close to what Clockw0rk and Kaising have achieved with Sent/S/d.

Loc


#4

I guess what I do not like when I watch sent/strider/doom is that EVERYTHING is relied on strider/doom to win the entire match. When you watch a clockwork video, you almost know his sentinel is going to get chewed up then his strider is going to own. I do think this style of playing is very interesting (basically just having sentinel for drones+doom) but I question whether it is the best. I would even vouch that cable/strider/doom is probably a better team if your cable is mr. nasty. I feel a strider’s team goals shouldn’t be that much different than a magnus or santhrax’s team goals in that…

1)Take msp for example, a good msp player vs any team wants to kill your first player without having to use unmashable to storm, THAT is reserved for the second character. So he might try to reset the first character to achieve that goal, but everybody knows, if he does achieve it, and gets gb infinite to 20 unmashable to hail on the second character…its almost ggpo, try again next game.
2)Take santhrax, nowadays, storm’s dont want to waste their powerful dhc to hsf on the first character. They want to blast your ass with capcom and hail the first character, so that when the second character comes in, he gets the dhc of death. and if you get the dhc of death on the second character (and it doesn’t kill) you are left with 1/6 or so of sent/cable/storm to fight + an assist usually…which means again…ggpo, try again next game.

many upper level teams are like this, not all though, but many. I feel that storm/strider/doom really shouldn’t be any exception. Although I dont have a power move to kill anybody with storm/doom, people are idiots, and think that “aw, its just storm/doom” and probably wont be safe and leave the game early with their first character. They are going to cut it close trying to beat what they think is a weak duo. At any rate you have two options or two scenerios that are going to wind up happening.

1)You will chip/beat up somebody until they only have about 1/3 or 1/4 bar left and they will tag out. (using some method, if they just do a random tag, you win the game, again, unlike sent/strider/doom. i would probably be the fool to tag out just to see what sent/doom was going to do to punish me) After the tag, if you have been winning they will be hesistent to fight aggressively; tadah, here is a time you can STACK your meter. even if you used it with storm in hail storms, storm can regenerate her meter fast as hell. you can gain a whole bar if you see somebody playing lax on your storm. and point blank period, if they can’t get you out of the sky, its bad news for them, more than likely you will build tons of meter and land a sj.lk into eventually orbs. and when that happens, your loaded strider/doom (with storm’s typhoons only coming in rarely, why do you need them with a loaded strider?) should ggpo the rest of the people in the game.

2)You will be kinda low on life and just settle for the la xx ls into orbs for the kill. Or if YOU KNOW it wont kill, then recognize the player knows it wont kill…so expect an alpha counter, no reason to get hit by something you realize would be a good tactic. at any rate, you have the momentum with a character that it is terribly hard to regain the momentum back from when you are good with him. I still dont mind this scenerio that much. This situation basically just, imo, makes you see where ur strider is at. how much damage can he really wreck, he has the bars, its just can you take out two characters? =)

All of this sounds great, because if you can get to this point IT IS. But all of the above strats do not work if your storm/doom is not buff…and i mean buff. I am going to work on knockdown combos with her off of random rock hits (you see rock hit, sj.lk, sj.lk, ad/f sj.lk, sj.rh, then make them block with a c.lk+doom, c.lp., s.mk string), she if she lands a s.rh, you can call doom, magic series, ad/f fp and if it works correctly, it is almost like a 4 fp from magneto in that it forces a roll, but you are so close, you can dash behind them while they are rolling. Those are really the only two gimmicks I have as of right now. But basically in order to win with this team, storm has to have good defense (aka being able to block magnus until she gets a chance to jump out of the rushdown, and daring magnus to follow you in the sky), storm/doom has to be nasty at keeping the opponent in blockstun, which chips the crap out of them indirectly, and storm has to capitalize of her hits (knowing when the right time to go to orbs is).

But basically I am using this team because I feel if I get the advantage early in the match, then the match is a wrap 9 outt 10 times. and the fact that nobody counters storm =)


#5

hmm, your making the team sound like it can be managed to be fairly effective but i’m always going to gripe about teams with no AA even ssd. Its just that sent can take life and dish it out too. It lets you have multiple times to fuck up in some cases but s\d only goes as far as you’re willing to take it.

I have several gameplans with each s\d squad I run. S\D is always going to be on it so my 3rd decides what options I can use during orbs and non orbs. On ssd, i’m willing to stay full screen because of the drones and my ability to throw animals. On s\c\d, I may want to play 3\4 to 1\2 screen because my range is limited but I have an AA which helps me out tons. s\c\d lets me be great up close and if I counter call an assit, I can kill that fool off one bar. Then I can establish a fighting tempo because I have the life lead. Your going to have to figure out which storm assist fits the best for the kind of scenarios you think that assist would be best used for, get it? every s\d player has there own opinion of how the team should be played ideally and none of them are wrong.

you are bringing up some solid points though. Its never a bad thing to go off into another direction as long as you follow proper team dynamics. It doesn’t matter what team you have if you can make it function right.


#6

Yep, the problem with this team that I have to find a solution to is being weak from overhead tri jumps from magneto’s. I will even go as far to say that I am not particularly worried about other storm’s at this moment. Magneto seems to be this s/d team’s weakness due to him being so fast that you cannot fake him out on where you are going to land NOR prevent him from getting the trijump off when you do land. I am going to have to try to develop a guard cancelling option off of a tri jump lk lk so i can punish a dash in c.lk after the tri jump.

as far as having storm’s nado’s for assist. maybe this is because I am fairly new to strider/doom or just the route i am taking with this team, but when strider’s meter is deisel when i come in, i tend not to even use storm…when strider gets to come in with 3 or sometimes 3 and a half meters…the trap is on deck for days =) so i find myself whoring doom totally =)

you probably have practice with one of the most anti s/d magneto’s around o.0


#7

I just wanted to comment on what you said about Sentinel’s role on S/D team and more specifically clockw0rk’s Sentinel. Indeed his Sentinel may not be as good as Sanford or Justin’s but it’s pretty solid. Clock’s Sent has held its own against freaking scary Sents like those of Potter and Genghis and Finesse. I think the reason why Sentinel * appears* to get owned so bad is because the team chemistry with Doom does in no way facilitate highly effective Sentinel play relative to teams MADE for Sentinel. There are no big damage combos like those of Sent/Commando or Sent/Cyclops due largely to the fact that Doom’s rocks scale horribly. IMO Doom is only good for chip and pressure and zoning. I understand what you’re saying but I would not go as far as to say that everything hinges on good Strider play. The point that Shoult has driven home that has made me devote more time to making my Sentinel good is that if you want to be an effective Strider player you HAVE to have a good Sent and Doom. Strider dies too easily so it’s essential that Sent is solid. Thus, Clockw0rk would not be where he is now if his Sentinel got chewed up to the extent you implied. If you have seen matches by Snake ( he’s a veteran poster on these boards) his Sentinel is really good. In some of his videos he wipes out half to two thirds of the other team with his Sentinel/Doom alone and Strider barely has to do any work. I’ve talked about this in the random s/d thread, Strider is the main force of offense, and the team may center around him, but that does not mean that Sentinel is just an assist.

The only person I’ve seen play Storm/Doom was Eddie Lee, IIRC, and he used Cable/Storm/Doom. I am really curious to see how your Storm/Doom rolls. Keep us updated and good luck!


#8

The less strider has to do mid game, the more effective he becomes. You don’t have to count on repeated trap patterns and setting up guessing games when your first character can come in and do some life. Its only when strider has to do alot, that it seems like he’s super execution heavy. If you setup the fight right, you can always count on strider doing something. Then doom\xxx can fight it out and win the round.


#9

I didn’t mean that clock’s sentinel is boot-ayyyy or nething, I meant exactly what you semi-reitterated. That when sent/doom is put up against a nasty magneto or god forbid sent/cyke or sent/cap…and it is high level play…he is almost left there to get chewed, in otherwords, I feel that the odds are stacked against him. I understand also what shoult is talking about making every hit count and using your double rp combos if you do decide to rock sent/doom.
just for you sent/doom users out there, this is only ff secksi i remember with sent/doom…launch or w/e, sj.lk, f.lk+doom, f.rp, f.lk, f.fp, unfly, c.fp unblockable =)

Also, I had a question about some strider shit in the corner. Ok, scenerio is I have the opponent in the corner. I call doom to pin him there for a sec and i jump on the wall (corner wall), jump off out towards midscrreen but then jump back along the wall. When I come down, it seems as if i can hit high/low on the original side, but also can hit high in the corner whenn he is in the corner and magically there is room for me. Can anybody explain this?

Also, I did something today although I can’t remember what, but I think i tele’d near to corner and opp was in the corner, wall jumped and called assist and the assist came FROM the corner instead of midscreen. I know you strider players are like “duh, he doesn’t know this shit?” but its new to me, I juss would like a little clarification on these things =)


#10

lol… yea it works like that. When you have the opp in the corner and wall jump then re-jump back into the corner, it’ll slide strider back into the corner and its not character dependant.

I think it has to do with the fact that strider has his back to the corner and it automatically makes room for him because of how he’s positioned. w\e though, it works:lovin:.

its really dirty and I highly recommend fucking around w\it.

yea you got it. One more thing about that wall jump though, the game counts stider on the opposite side when you wall jump into the corner, so assists will come out backwards and fly into the corner part of the screen.


#11

sorry

About the wall jump, it can also cross up cyclops. if you jump on the wall in the corner he will come out the other way and not hit Doom. As long as strider isn’t facing the corner, everything will come toward or behind his as if he were in that corner.

P.S. Sorry guys, I’ve been out of these boards for a while, but I have been working on super secret strider things. I’ll report back later with the finished material sometimes later. (Maybe after EVO east)