Strange "Vortex" (Mixup) Discussion - Learn how to confuse your opponents and kill them ASAP

doctor-strange

#1

TL;DR WARNING. If you don’t feel like reading through walls of text, I’ll have video tutorials in the second post soon.

Just created this thread to share my thoughts on how to develop this mixup. By now you’ve probably already seen my “Mystic Vortex” video that shows how Strange can kill everyone in the entire cast off a single mixup. This is obviously good news for us Strange mains and thus I feel the need to pursue this idea.

The concept of a “vortex” is basically this: putting the opponent in an ambiguous mixup, a situation in which you have an overwhelming advantage over your opponent. The term “vortex” in fighting games became more prominent with Super Street Fighter 4, taking advantage of the lack of tech rolling in the game. Characters such as Ibuki and Akuma could put you in mixups repeatedly off hard knockdowns such as throws, crouching roundhouse, Ibuki’s neckbreaker, etc.

Hard knockdown in SSF4, because there is no tech rolling in that game, limits your opponent’s options on wakeup and makes it so that they have to revert to neutral position if they don’t have other ways to get out, such as EX moves with reversal timing. In doing so, the player is given enough time to create an ambiguous mixup in which the opponent is forced to guess. Block high/low, left/right, tech throw, etc.

Now in UMvC3, I feel that a character like Strange is capable of doing something like this. He has the tools and the assists to get the job done, and the damage output to kill nearly every character in the roster with just 1 bar of hyper meter. Thus, I’m opening this thread to share my thoughts on how I’m going through the process of making Strange as unblockable as possible. Maybe you too can find your own way to setup your own Strange vortex.

1. Understanding Dr. Strange’s Mixup Tools
Flames of the Faltine & Grace of Hoggoth
[INDENT=1][LEFT]- This is going to be the core of your mixups. Strange is predominantly a left/right-style mixup character capable of putting opponents in one of the fastest left-right mixups in the game, with his Y Graces. His R Graces, though seemingly useless outside of combos, are actually essential to the success of his best mixups in my opinion because they redirect the powered-up Flames of the Faltine fireball and retain its properties.[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT] [/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT] [/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT]- Y Graces[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- 1Y: The best version for mixups IMO. This is the most practical one for left-right mixups if timed correctly upon your opponent’s wakeup. It is slow enough that Strange can use Flames of the Faltine while very close to the Y Grace and crossup teleport to the other side before the fireball hits the opponent. It is also fast enough that when combined with a crossup teleport, will be very difficult to see coming. There is also enough hitstun to hit confirm with c.:l:, c.:l: ~ Impact Palm upon recovery from teleport; more on this later.[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=2][LEFT]- 2Y: Not very practical for left/right mixups because of how fast it is. It is notable however, that it causes soft knockdown when it hits an airborne opponent. You can achieve this by simply super jump cancelling :s: (2137 or :qcb::ub:) with Flames of the Faltine. This can be used to your advantage to do forced air recovery mixups with standing :l: like Wesker.[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=2][LEFT]- 3Y: Requires proper spacing between Strange and the Y Graces to get the proper timing with your teleport mixups (usually Strange should be in recovery from teleport slightly before or exactly as the beam hits), but this is still the most deadly for that fact that is a nearly instant beam that causes crumple on hit and you basically get a free combo afterwards.[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=1][LEFT]- R Graces: Again, used to redirect Flames of the Faltine. While this may seem a bit mundane compared to what Y Graces can do, this is actually very important. If you’ll notice, R Graces are placed closer to the ground than Y Graces are. This allows you alter several things with Flames of the Faltine:[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=2][LEFT]1) Control the height[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]2) Change the direction[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]3) Bounce the Flame back and forth to hit your opponent up to 2 times[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[LEFT]• Eye of Agamotto[/LEFT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT]- This is really important as well. Eye of Agamotto has a huge hitbox that, when spaced correctly,** shuts down your opponent’s option to tech roll forward**. Again, the vortex is all about limiting your opponent’s options. If you can space the Eye correctly, you can limit your opponent’s options to just **neutral wakeup or back roll tech. **In a game like Marvel 3, this is big for Dr. Strange. One setup I’m currently working on with my updated vortex makes use of the fact that Strider’s Vajra assist allows you to get a third free Grace, Daggers of Denak M, or Eye of Agamotto by simply delaying the launcher after Impact Palm. Obviously, you’ll want to get rid of your opponent’s option to roll forward, so Eye of Agamotto would be the ideal choice here.[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=1][LEFT]- Assists can also serve the same lockdown purpose as the Eye, namely the following:[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT] [/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Sentinel: Drones[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Nova: Gravimetric Pulse[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Doctor Doom: Molecular Shield[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Dante: Jam Session[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Vergil: Judgement Cut[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Amaterasu: Cold Star[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Haggar: Lariat[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Tron: Gustaff Fire[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Dormammu: Dark Hole, Purification[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Akuma: Tatsumaki Zankukyaku[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Frank West: Shopping Cart[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- MODOK: Balloon Bomb[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- Firebrand: Hell Spitfire[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]- etc.[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[LEFT]• Mystic Sword L[/LEFT]
[INDENT=1][LEFT]- Your bread-and-butter for spacing your opponents properly during your setups. You can take advantage of the fact that this move pushes the opponents away from Dr. Strange, so that with select assists (the best example I find is with Strider’s Vajra assist), you can achieve the following:[/LEFT][/INDENT]

[INDENT=2][LEFT]1) Setting Eye of Agamotto (with proper timing; usually by delaying the launcher after Impact Palm to push the opponent just outside of the Eye’s hitbox)[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]2) Setting two Graces of your choice[/LEFT][/INDENT]
[INDENT=2][LEFT]3) Hard knockdown on your opponent[/LEFT][/INDENT]


#2

reserved


#3

Videos.

Mystic Vortex - What Strange can do if you guess wrong

Spoiler

[media=youtube]3ctLaONgB00[/media]

Ryan Hunter’s Corner Mixup

Spoiler

[media=youtube]WDJB-pNCtEA[/media]


#4

Again, Mystic Sword L can be ducked by like, everyone. It’s hella unsafe.


#5

unfortunately that’s the one of the very few “safe” options we have. I would say H teleport but apparently strange can get thrown out of it before he recovers. L mystic sword needs to be properly spaced to be very effective for spacing (sounds weird) and I think this should be emphasized in the L mystic sword section, otherwise you will whiff regardless of height.

I always found Daggers to be better at spacing, but that’s only for oki :frowning:


#6

Hmm, the video Mystic Vortex is private? I’m unable to watch it…

Decided to test Strange out thoroughly since 2 days but not getting any luck with him on point. EYE OF… stuffed


#7

Everything is safe behind an EoA. Also, you need to cover the start-up with something else. Assist call usually does it, then you can M Dagger to cover all additional EoA calls.


#8

I set it to private because I’m working on an updated version of the video, one that covers as many bases as possible when it comes to creating mixups with Dr. Strange. the stuff shown in the original is pretty fraudulent anyway, I’ll admit, because it was done with the CPU set to neutral tech. my stuff is pretty obsolete because Ryan’s corner carry -> EoA mixup is a hell of a lot better than anything I can come up with. :frowning: lol.

anyways, I set it back to public just so people can see.


#9

I’m getting mauled by Wesker when my Strange comes in after I lose my point character. Don’t know if its safe to teleport upon entry or land and block. Wesker has setups too, so its really hard to guess what he’s going to do.

  • Rotendo

#10

I run strange 2nd also. In my opinion, you should just block the mix-up and push block them away to keep them away. If my point character dies before theirs, I’d usually pop XFC the moment I get a oppurtunity for a punish SOV, and when their second character comes in, you can create a nice mix-up.

Don’t try to guess gunshots (some people are fast enough to teleport after, although pretty risky on positioning)
If he likes to abuse H teleport, just jump up and meet him and mash throw, and you will more likely grab him as he appears.
If he likes to play pressure, just use well placed EOAs and Mystic sword L mixed with your cover assist.

If you pressure wesker, he actually does not have many answers to strange except Lvl 3. You can create some serious lockdown considering most people underestimate strange at the moment.


#11

It usually goes like this:
I start with Mag. Kill off first two characters with Mag or will aerial exchange into Strange to clean the dirty laundry.
Wesker comes in and if I still have Mag on point and depending on well placed teleports by him + xfactor, Mag dies.

Strange comes in, Wesker teleports either on ground, dash H, launch or teleport H, grabs, combo > all followed by xfactor.

Left with Sent to deal with Lv3/4 Wesker (one hit and Sent is toast) so I can usually clutch it out with my Sent, but I don’t want to rely on my clutching skills. I want to be able to hold back Wesker with Strange.

So in other words. Step up my Wesker vs Strange matchup.

  • Rotendo

#12

reposting my corner mixups for the hell of it. my team is Strange/Dante/Doom.

a) air throw reset with Weasel Shot assist (any projectile assist that’s affected by HSD will work really). especially useful to have Dante in 2nd so you can continue the combo even without a Grace to OTG. if you do have one in the corner, then you can go right into a 3-rep Faltine loop.
b) …Impact Palm, land, jump Palm, j.S (flying screen knockdown), Daggers of Denak M to push the opponent out of the corner, crossup
c) snapback -> fake crossup with Weasel Shot, confirm into Faltine loop
d) snapback -> crossup with Weasel Shot, confirm into XF kill (or switch sides for swag and go for the corner infinite)
e) …Impact Palm, land, jump Impact Palm, j.S (flying screen knockdown), EoA lockdown, raw tag Dante, mixup. since you raw tagged Dante, if they get tagged by EoA, it doesn’t scale as badly and you actually get extra damage out of your usual corner combo.
[INDENT=1]- variation: EoA + Hidden Missiles assist = total corner control. if they neutral tech or roll back into the corner, EoA will lock them down. if they roll forward, they get tagged by Missiles and you get another Faltine loop, a Grace of your choice, etc. this is basically the same corner lockdown Magneto can do without the gravity manipulation moves.[/INDENT]

having an offscreen Y Grace (as in, at the very edge of the screen when you place it such that it will barely be visible) will be very important too, I think. not only does it push people out of the corner but it is immune to up-back. if it’s spaced properly and you do SJ Flames, the fireball will angle itself and go for the glyph almost always.
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]


#13

This has a little more in it for Zero players but I thought I should bring this up here too for anyone interested. I run Zero/Strange/Doom and while the missles are clearly better cover fire for setting up, I did sneak in some more meaningful use out of Zero as an assist for those moments where my mixup is getting stale or I’m left without the other good doctor.

[media=youtube]XAdp1o1JMLo[/media]


#14

my team is iron man/strange/sent

can strange do the vortex with unibeam?


#15

Beams work great with any teleport char and drones are good cover too. The benefit in Unibeam over other beams is that it holds them in place, doesn’t knock them off their feet, and lasts for a relatively long time compared to other beams. It just has some bad HSD if I recall