Street Fighter and KoF transitioning

I’ve heard it said that if you think Street Fighter, you won’t learn KoF, and vice versa. What are the mechanics of Street Fighter that you can’t think about or have to drop if you want to learn KoF?

This might be true for some people… some might not get used to the pacing or the systems of these respective games. For example, I personally feel KOF is faster than any SF game (slower than a Marvel Vs game though). Plus, each game has it’s own quirks you need to get used to. SF3 has its parrying, KOF has its Fwd/back rolling and stock evasions.

Then again, it’s all a matter of perspective. I can play SF3 fairly well, but I can rarely parry. Nor can I Alpha counter in the Alpha games. I never really bothered to practice these moves. I’m so used to KOF’s features. But I’m learning though. I started messing around with Alpha 2’s custom combo system lately…

Well, KOF has some different game mechanics:

  • Rolling: You may have already seen this in the CvS series, but it’s a very important evasive manuever in KOF. It sometimes opens you up to offense, but be sure to not be too predictable because your opponent could read it and attack you when you recover from the roll. There is no such thing as RC in KOF so don’t think about it. This gives you another offensive option that is entirely different from jumping in or parrying. Rolling can help you evade attacks and at the same time mount your own offense.

  • Hopping: Tapping up slightly will make your character perform a small jump aka “hop”. The small hops allows you to engage in some form of rushdown, since if you combine the hop with a good air move, it will be difficult for the opponent to counter it with their anti-air. Hopping can also keep your opponent guessing since you can also hop in with nothing and grab your opponent as you land (this basically works for grapplers). Mix it in with normal jumps so that your opponents can misplace their anti-airs (doing their anti-air too soon when you’re already high in the air).

I guess those are basically the main reasons you can find in KOF that are quite different from SF, but also know that not ALL KOF games are the same from one another… KOF 2002 and 2003, for example, are 2 games that do not play the same from one another, so keep that in mind, too.

I think a lot of SF fans have some problems with the SNK Buttonlayout. I don’t think it has really something to do with the game system besides the ways combos are done. In SNK Game you have often a j.D, s.C, f+A, any special move, which is kinda different from the standart example j.MK,c.MK, special move … Anyway, many players have no problem in playing in both worlds (like me, I love Cap and SNK style^^).

SF helped me learn how to position my self in the game. Zoning, turtling etc. while KOF taught me how to execute better.

My 2 cents

poke-centric/combocentric (i.e sc2 vs T3)
defense rewarding/offense rewarding
less movement options/more movement options

The mixup differences are also quite important, as previously noted, SNK games have the short hop, while most SF games have that standing OH. short hops are evasive, forward moving and combo starters. A standing OH in SF tends to be slow and uncomboable. This strengthens the offense focus of KOF games.

Also, most characters in KOF have, in addition to the standard roll (extra mode aside), some form of movement special move. These tend to be really strong (K’, Vanessa, Athena). Because of these strong movement techniques it usually pays off to be offensive with them (Vanessa aside who uses some really gay hit and run tactics).

Lastly, the lack of a parry or alpha counter means a lot less benefit for the turtler as for the attacker. Attackers don’t have to worry about rushing down and getting parried up their ass or alpha countered. The most they usually worry about is a well timed DP or roll. Even then both of these are much more punishable than parrys or alpha counters. So it almost always pays to be rushing down instead of turtling.

That’s my take on it. KOF pays off the bulldog, SF pays off the turtle.

PS anti-oki DPs are much weaker in KOF than in SF. Also very few characters have a Ken like DP.

However, SF skills can help with KOF, and vice versa.

SNK games, many characters have standing overheads as well. You can buffer into the overhead, but then it’s no longer an overhead.

Turtling can work in the KOF, the movement options can be used defensively as well as offensively, esp with a few characters. KOF is not a rushdown paradise, it’s more balanced.

As for AC’s, KOF has AC’s, hit CD while blocking. Same principle, but harder to counter, AC reversals are near-impossible in KOF, but the AC does SFA3 AC-level damage.

GC exists in both games, but you can’t base a strat entirely off the GC meter like you can in SF.

I woudn’t say that, ever seen a good Goro or Ralf in 98?^^ They can poke you to death in no time. Or watch Alpha 3, this game is even more about combos and VC’s then nearly any 2D fighting game. I think SF and KOF games are always a bit different oriented in their own series(KOF 2002 for example is a lot about Max mode and combos and CvS2 is a lot about poking). I would say this point is equel for both in the end … :slight_smile:

So if one wants to learn KoF, what should they be playing? Is 2002 the primary KoF being played right now? Or is the scene really with the classic 98? I observe no one really takes 2003 seriously…

NeoWave is popular in some countries, too.

Yeah, play 2K2 it’s much more balanced. And 2K3 is pretty retarded; it’s like mvc2 only… not. I haven’t played neowave, someone told me it was the equivalent of 2K2 but on the atomiswave hardware instead. Does anyone know exactly what’s different about this game?

Truthfully yeah, I never played a lot of A3 or 98 raph/goro. But I have played a lot of 3S and 2K2. so in comparing 3s to 2K2 I think saying 3s is pokecentric and 2K2 is combo centric is fair. And in KOF almost nobody uses those standing overheads. Why? because the hop is better in everyway. Hell, the only time you can combo off Ioris f+B is when you chained it. but if you chained it, it’s not an overhead and it’s not going to combo off the first move. So yeah, I hardly ever see anyone use standing OHs because like I said the hop is better in everyway.

This question has been asked and answered so many times that children weep when someone brings it up again.

Just watch some match videos:

Growing up, the local arcade got the latest game from each company. I wasn’t a prig who only played capcom games cuz of the pretty graphics and simple commands (I knew people who flat-out QUIT playing snk games IN GENERAL cuz they were too lame to do the Desperation Attacks in Fatal Fury 2). I played them both, but I mostly liked the more graphic violence of snk games…so to this day, I’m good at both.

After actually playing a KOF game just last week, I feel it is a little difficult transitioning.

It might have had to do with the joysticks (since I can’t afford one yet) and the button layout, which was quite different from the traditional 6 button layout I was used to. Hopefully, I’ll be able to play again tomorrow if my friend can bring his custom made Neo-Geo to school

The hop changes gameplay a lot because it lets you lead with your fist or foot instead of your face. To get inside in an SF game you pretty much have to walk forward and take the chance that the opponent will hit you. That means that much of the gameplay is trying to trick the other player into moving forward. In a KOF game the hop lets you press in on the opponent while taking the offense. It’s a much safer way to advance.

Also, I’d agree that KOF games are much more combo-focused than SF games. Obviously, SF games have bread-and-butter combos, but I’d say that KOF bread-and-butters tend to be longer and more damaging. It helps that–and I don’t have any scientific evidence for this, just my own impressions–you usually have meter a lot more often in KOF games.

However, I don’t think it’s really “difficult” to play one after playing the other. The skills are the same; you just need to build up some new muscle memory.

I definitely agree on the meter building. Shit. When I play it’s always Vanessa first, why? because s.(close)C->HCF+C is like a lot of bar. Even on block (though on block I usually react fast enough to cancel into QCB+B->f+A) Also, Max combos are ridiculous for the amount of meter it uses up, it’s usually 60% health or more for a single stock. So yeah, SNK is sorta like GG in promoting more offensive play. You build bar faster and you get more damage for your bar. I hate 3s for this reason, most supers do measly damage (Kens, Dudley) or take forever to build up (Makoto, Chun)or both (Akuma). I hate it when people back up in the opening rounds and just whiff HPs to build meter.

How forgiving is execution in KoF? It seems like in KoF, in exchange for quick meter and crazy combos, there’s a lot of input you have to correctly in order to be effective. I was watching a combo demo video for KoF 2002 made by some Brazilians and I saw them destroy characters with full life with some tricked out combos (and usually five levels of meter). Whole time I was thinking, “how on earth did he do that?” In learning KoF is there a pretty steep learning curve, or is what I saw simple enough given some time? I guess it depends on the person.

Combos in KOF games are just like combos in SF games–they can be really straightforward or unbelievably hard. Not many people can do KYSG’s 3S combos…but lots of people can do Akuma’s c.MK -> LK Whirlwind Kick -> SAI. In the same way, not many people can do crazy KOF combos…but it’s not that hard to do Iori’s j.HP -> s.HP -> Eight Wine Cups super.

The problem here is that you’re starting at the wrong end of the curve. Instead of looking at a crazy combo video, head over to Orochinagi , go to the “Video” section, then the KOF2002 section and get the first “Overstruggle DVD Rip” file. It’s a rip of a Japanese tutorial DVD, and will provide some more reasonable combos that are realistic for use in play.

Not to forget that KOF also has “shortcuts” which means you can basically jump some steps in a motion and you will stll be able to perform the move (so instead of doing QCB, HCF you can actually do :d: :db: :db: :d: :r: and the move will still come out). That’s a big clue for easy combos in KOF.

Wait what about supers? Like in CVS2 there’s the start up invincibility for lvl 3 supers and it keeps going down as the lvl goes down. What about KOF? Do HSDMs have more invincibility than DMs and SDMs? And what are the top tiers? I think Vanessa, Yashiro and Chris are some of them right? The only ppl I ever played with in 2k2 was Terry, Iori, Kyo and K’ lol. They probably suck cuz I never see anyone use them.