Street Fighter x Tekken - Possible changes and additions for an eventual patch (Discussion)


#1

Yo my first thread on srk!

Apparently Dawgtanian let us know on Twitter, that they do not have any plans after the SF4 update and that SFxT could potentially get an update.

More information on EH:

I wouldn’t take the poll serious but it doesn’t hurt to vote anyway.

Anyway with the help of you guys I was able to make a list of possible changes and additions. Feel free to add more!

I know some of you guys are not fond of another balance patch and new characters and I am pretty much on the fence, but feel free to suggest anything regarding that as well.

Also hit up Twitter and let Dawgtanian, Ono, Combofiend and your grandmother now that you still care about SFxT!

Suggestions

Highest priority

  • Improve the pc version netcode and fix the spectator mode
  • Remove infinites

System changes:

[details=Spoiler]- Change the ranking system from a point system to a win ratio system (or at least include it to have a “cross over” of ranking systems)

  • Change the match making in ranked to a lobby based system just like in SSF4 AE

  • Make the “search same region option” search for players in Europe instead of a single country

  • Add the option for an instant rematch in 2 player endless lobbies

-Local coop for XBL

  • If the team is set to go back to training mode after a ranked match it is hardly possible to dissolve the team as you instantly go back to training mode and most likely get another match before you finished loading. One of the only ways is to go back to the xbl homepage

  • Currently there’s a weird input problem with throws; you hold forward, your opponent rolls behind you, so you’re holding back, you input the throw at that point, and you still get forward throw.
    It’s annoying especially when you actually want to perform the forward/neutral throw when you walked back.

-Decrease the buffer window. Inputs stay in the buffer way to long. It makes something as simple as stepping forward and doing a special stupidly inconsistent because the buffer might interpret that as a DP.

Likewise, lessen the amount of acceptable input shortcuts for a similar reason.

  • Gem setups: Make it possible to change them in the character select screen. Players can write down/memorize the numbers and instantly change them. - The presets do not offer much variation. Include more setups and gem types such as movement speed.
  • Lower the % rate of movement speed gems to compensate for the overall increased movementspeed
    Preset suggestions:
Spoiler

Offense
001 Immense Power Lv.1 / Connect with 5 normals / Damage +10% / 20s
019 Immense Power Lv.1 / Partner connects with 1 launcher / Damage +10% / 20s
088 Fortitude Lv.1 / Have 4 of your attacks blocked / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s

Defense
085 Fortitude Lv.1 / Block 5 hits / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s
203 Onslaught Lv.2 / Block 10 hits / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
152 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Tech 1 throw / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Meter
(no change)

Utility (SF)
212 Onslaught Lv.2 / Connect with 1 launcher / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
098 Fortitude Lv.2 / Opponent uses a super art / Damage Reduction +110 / 15s
144 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Perform 1 reversal / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Utility (TK)
214 Onslaught Lv.2 / Partner connects with 1 launcher / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
022 Immense Power Lv.2 / Use a super art / Damage +20% / 15s
121 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Get hit by 4 normals / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Balance
017 Immense Power Lv.2 / Connect with 1 launcher / Damage +20% / 15s
085 Fortitude Lv.1 / Block 5 hits / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s
205 Onslaught Lv.1 / Have 4 of your attacks blocked / Cross Gauge Acquisition +20% / 20s [/details]

-Quick combos: Should be changed to preset 1 (blank) by default. Players can edit them, if they are interested in using them.

-Timer: Either freeze or slow it down during super arts[/details]

Balancing:

Spoiler

-Universal:

[details=Spoiler]Between tag cancels and certain EX moves, reversals in this game have some of the highest damage potentials of any move in the game. This means that a person can realistically win a match through DPs.
The purpose of a DP should be to get the other guy off you. Making them lead to a consistent 350-400 damage is dumb.
DP tag cancels on block need to be nerfed again. It can be wonky to punish in alot of situations.[/details]

- Abel:

[details=Spoiler]Boost combo from cl.LP to far st.HK can come out unexpectedly instead of cl.HK when timed wrong, causing the combo to fail.
Forward Kick should do a constant 80 damage instead of the reduced 60 damage on airborne opponents.[/details]

- Alisa:

Spoiler

when boosted from a light attack, the first hit of Alisa’s Quick Access (MK~MP) sometimes wiffs on hit. It looks like it might have something to do with the activation range, like it should cancel to Lost Access instead (which has the same input, but starts with a far st. MK instead of close st. MK). Not sure if this qualifies as a bug or fault, but it sure is annoying…

- Blanka:

Spoiler

Remove Blanka guard infinite trick [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lccz1vcQ2ss

Characters like Law can dash through Blanka during his wake up [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O0-k7vG8V0[/details][/details]

- Bob:

Spoiler

Unlike the rest of the cast Bob’s normals can be canceled into pandora without jump cancels. This property should be removed [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV5TwfFOmBg[/details]

-Cody:

[details=Spoiler]Cody’s cross cancel can actually KO the opponent. This property needs to be removed as all the other cross cancels cannot KO.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tYcxP0t-bM

The cr.lp knife attack does consistent damage and chip, even when rapid fired, however his standing knife lp does 40 damage normally, but 28 damage when rapid fired. This is without any damage scaling. Likewise, the standing knife lp does 10 chip damage normally, but only 7 chip when rapid fired. This should be fixed so it does consistent damage/chip between the normal and rapid fired versions.

His and Kuma’s launcher have 12 frames of start up unlike the rest of the cast with a 13 frames launcher. Both start ups should be increased by 1 frame

- Cammy:

[details=Spoiler]The hitbox of Cammy’s cannonspike seems to be behind her as well. Either that or Blanka’s hurtbox needs to be adjusted.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sN7f2G4WZo

Boost combo into cl.HK has too big of an activation range, causing it to whiff in some cases.

- Heihachi:

[details=Spoiler]Remove the stand crush property from his hammer punch. A safe overhead that safe (-1) and leads to a full combo on hit does NOT need to also have a stand crush. Give that property to a different move, like f.lk

Due to the input shortcuts, and being able to get a hcf motion by just doing db, f, attempting to do Hei’s f.lk from a defensive crouch results in counter coming out. Make the input for Hei’s counter a bit more strict (e.g. requiring db, d, df, f rather than simply db, f) should fix this.

Hei’s counter also seems to have input priority over his DP. I’ve had several occasions where I try to do an EX DP to get out of a blockstring from a defensive crouch (which would also hit a jump-over attempt) and get EX counter instead[/details]

- Hwoarang:

Spoiler

Adjust Hwoarang’s Motion Switch (KKK) so he can’t use it while crouching, as it makes him immune to throw mix-ups [details=Spoiler]@ 7:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdnqQLekSms

Adjust Hwoarang’s Fire Storm (FLA MK>LK) string so that it has reduced blockstun or whiffs crouchers entirely. Reducing the blockstun from 21 to 19 to make it +2 on block would probably be fair [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-g3cjof5sk[/details]
[/details]

- Ibuki:

[details=Spoiler]- boost combo into cl.HP has too big of an activation range, causing it to whiff in some cases.

  • TC4 (cl.LP>f+MP>f+HP) canceled into EX Kazakiri (dp+KK) does not combo correctly on crouching opponents, despite TC4 forcing them to stand.
  • Ibuki’s alpha counter can unexpectedly whiff sometimes, so bigger hitboxes could help. [/details]
    **
  • Juri:**
Spoiler

Counter works correctly (this should be a general fix for all counters)

- Kuma:

[details=Spoiler]His and Cody’s launcher have a start up of 12 frames unlike the rest of the cast with a start up of 13 frames. Both start ups should be increased by 1 frame
[/details]

- Lars:

Spoiler

Slightly improved forward hitbox on Lightning Screw (and AC)
EX Dynamic improved on hit +3>+6 Currently Ex dynamic entry does not combo into Ex Mjollnir. Increasing the hit stun would solve this issue[/details]

**- Law: **

Spoiler

Adjust Law’s corner restand infinite [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLOV61dQnd8[/details]

**- Nina: **

[details=Spoiler]Her lk geyser cannon and alpha counter hitbox need to be adjusted
alpha counter (skip to 0:10) [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx8YGrhOZ6A
[/details][/details]

- Poison:

Spoiler

Boost combo into cl.HP has too big of an activation range, causing it to whiff in some cases

- Raven:

Spoiler

Far standing hp does not crumple on standing counterhit sometimes.

- Sakura:

[details=Spoiler]Currently the first punch follow up after Sakura Otoshi deals 60 damage against grounded opponents but 20 less damage when the opponent is hit while airborn. It should deal the same damage vs airborn opponents, as this is where Sakura Otoshi is mainly used.

  • Alpha counters (Cross cancels) need to be adjusted. Most of them allow safe raw tags while a few (notably Raven, Akuma) are punishable if a raw tag follows
    -AC’s with a start up of +15 should be faster to make them more reliable
    [/details]

Balancing (debatable): (these suggestions are questionable and are here to make them easier to find and to discuss)

[details=Spoiler]- movement speed buffs

[details=Spoiler]Return Gief’s walk speed to 2012 status
Paul - Walk speed buff to 35/25 (Currently 31/20) - Reduce backdash from 27 to 24
Cody - Walk speed buff to 38/28 (Currently 35/20) - Reduce forward dash frame count from 18 to 16
Lei - Walk speed buff to 30/30 (Currently 30/25) - Reduce backdash from 27 to 24
Lei - Walk speed in Drunken buffed to 40/18 (Currently 30/15)
Lei - Walk speed buff in Crane buffed to 22.5/22.5 (Currently 20/20)
Marduk - Walk speed buff to 25/18 (Currently 21/15.5)
Guy - Walk speed buff to 45/35 (Currently 45/30. 35backwards would match current SF4)
Kuma - Walk speed buff in regular stance to 20/18 (Currently 18/16)
Ken - Walk speed buff to 42.5/32.5 (Currently 40/30. He doesn’t have the Kara throw from SF4 so it seems fair)
Juri - Reduce forward dash frame count from 20 to 18[/details]
- SF side changes:

[details=Spoiler]increase the range allowed for “Close” normals. Due to the pushbox system change and how they altered attacks in general too many characters who rely on close normals get pushed out too quickly and slower walking characters like Cody/Abel/Juri/Poison/Rolento/Sagat aren’t able to ever really take advantage of their close normals for very long. This is a non-issue for a lot of the Tekken cast due to forward moving normals and the fact many of the Tekken cast use the same normals for close as they do for far attacks. Overall I wouldn’t mind if they just increased EVERYONE’s max “close normals” range by about 15% as well as the throw range.
[/details]

- Abel:

[details=Spoiler]fMK>Dash increased to 0 on block (from -1)
far MP cancelable (improve combo stability)
Change float on cHP to improve combo stability
Tackles (non EX) combo from MP normals
EX Wheel Kick ground bounces just like normal wheel kicks
Buff CADC from 13>10
Super damage increased to 350[/details]

- Akuma:

[details=Spoiler]FP SRK never whiffs 2nd and 3rd hit if 1st connects
Give him a use-able alpha counter
Buff Raging Demon damage to 350
Revert fireball back to pre-patch status[/details]

- Balrog:

[details=Spoiler]Reduce startup of Balrog’s cr.LP by 1F and recovery by 1F
Increase the amount of air control Balrog has during NJ HP
FJ HK cause a ground bounce
Far MK - Hits Low
Far HK - Special Cancelable
cr HP - Arm is air crush
crMK - JP increased by 1 startup reduced by 1F
cls HP - JP increased by 1
cr.HK - JP increased by 1
EX Dash Straight - Wall bounce on air hit
TAP - Crumple on counterhit
Buffalo Headbutt - Aircrush after first 6f startup for all versions
Dash Upper HK - frame advantage increased from +1F on hit -7F on block to +2F on hit -5F on block damage increased to 80[/details]

- Blanka:

[details=Spoiler]Far MK hits low changed to +0F on hit -5F on block cancelable to hop forward/backward
cr.HP - cancelable to Hop forward/Backward[/details]

- Bryan:

[details=Spoiler]Return Bryan’s fisherman hook to pre-patch status
Remove gap between LP>MP>LP
Knee airborne on frame 1
Knee breaks armor (part of a general fix to make all unblockable attacks break armor)
Sweep on block improved -9>-4
[/details]

- Chun:

Spoiler

changing frame data so Chun cannot link back medium kick from low short or crouch jab would balance her. She can still do decent damage with short x2, crouch fp xx legs (and with one bar you can easily get over 400 by canceling to your teammate), she gets a lot off of the jump cancel thing. In return, they can make her flip kick start up a bit better by 1 frame or something or slightly improve hit box

- Cody:

[details=Spoiler]Close LK changed to a low hitting attack.
Make Cody’s cr.LK 3F and chainable to lights, leave -4F on block 0F on hit /c. lk 3F keep the range and block advantage the same. That or keep it 5 frames and restore the range it had in 2012
Hammer Hook: Make it two hits on block again. There’s NO reason for that to be nerfed when every other two-hit overhead in the game remains untouched
return his EX Zonk to its 2012 damage, and/or buff the damage on his normals to make his solo damage better
Far MP - Special Cancelable
Far HP - Damage increased to 100
Far HK - Float on air hit
B.MP - Always knockdown on air hit
cr.MP - JP increased by 1
cr.HP - JP increased by 1
cls,HP - JP increased by 1 - Pushback on hit/block reduced
cls MP - pushback on hit/block reduced
f.MP - Pushback on hit/block reduced
NJ HP - Counterhit no longer knocks down on ground hit damage increased to 110 JP increased from 0 to 3
FJ MP - Startup reduced from 9F to 6F float on air hit
F+HK - Floats higher on hit, damage increased to 100
HK Ruffian - Recovery reduced, leg has air crush damage increased to 90
MK Ruffian - More active frames
Overhead is now +5F on hit and can be performed while holding the knife
Zonk - High crush properties, mid body invincibility increased to reach active frames at level 3. Hurtbox shrunk to allow Cody to Zonk through Low Tiger shots properly.
Badstone throw arc improved. Startup reduced for all versions, cannot combo into LP/MP versions though.
LP-MP-MP-HP Final Fight Chain Combo added
Knife changes
s.LP - frame advantage increased from 0F on block 4F on hit to 1F on block 8F on hit
cr.LP - frame advantaged increased from -2F on block +2F on hit to 0F on block +6F on hit
cr.MP - special cancelable
s.MP - hitbox status returned to 2012
s.HP - hitbox increased slightly
cr.HP - startup reduced to 8F
Knife throw startup reduced to 20F
Let him keep the knife when tagged out[/details]

- Hwoarang:

[details=Spoiler]Make his DH 0 on block so that way, you have a chance to attack
Special Air Raid can be at least 0 or -1 on block as well
Remove invul from EX Air Raid
Slow CADC from 5 frames to 7 frames. This would open up a few more holes in his offense while still let Hwo condition you with safe FLA pressure so that he can reset with CADC’s. It would just mean that the CADC’s would have to be a bit less reckless.
[/details]

- Hugo:

[details=Spoiler]Increased hitbox in cLK
cLK increased to +5 on hit
Increase Launcher range
Body Splash increased to +8 on block (from +5)
Stronger AA hitbox on cHP
[/details]

- Ibuki:

Spoiler

Suggestions by alexlkd

[details=Spoiler]1. TC 8 and Cr MK:

  1. Ibuki can no longer combo into TC 8 from a chained st hp OR chained cl hp.

  2. Cr MK should have 6 frame startup

  3. Cr MK should only have 13 recovery frames (This would make it +3 on hit and -1 on block).

TC 8 being able to be done from chains was a strong offense option in particular that made her seem viable. Even though this combo failed due to factors outside the player control such as the enemies position slightly changing, it makes no sense to be able to have such an offensive option and be safe on block from that range with a low attack that has a 7 frame startup, while requiring low execution. Because of this ability it made way too many of her other moves (and combos) not worth using ever such as neckbreaker. This ability also made TC 6 a lot less useful. Deleting this option and making her other moves work like they are supposed to will balance her significantly.

With TC 8 not being a possible option from Cr MK, means that Cr MK has become a very weak normal. However Cr MK was one of Ibuki’s best pokes in SF4 and it really fit her style. It was fast coming out and had very little lag. Furthermore it was neutral on block and + on hit but comboing into it was very situational. I find this type of cr mk much more suitable for Ibuki. She also has a very short range cr lk making this her main tool to hit low when she is outside that range. With the TC8 nerf this move deserves to be better.

Changes that are necessary for balancing her unfair weaknesses:

  1. Cross Cancel (or Alpha counter), LK Hien

  2. The Cross Cancel should have a much lower hitbox so that it does not “glitch” and miss the first hit against crouching opponents. This is a serious issue since it does not allow her to safe tag every time it occurs. It should also have only one hit that does the full damage much like Akuma’s DP.

  3. Lk Hien should have its hitbox increased so that it will hit crouching opponents who are directly in front of you. Since it is an overhead, there is no reason why it should completely whiff against a nonmoving crouching opponent directly in front of you.

  4. Walk speed

  5. Walk speed is buffed to 88% forward and 80% backward (It is currently 73/63).

For a character who is focused on footsies, has no reversals, average dash speeds, slow floaty jumps, and low health, walk speed is everything. It is one of your means of defense. If Raven can have 80/80 walk speed who has better zoning/combo potential/ reversals/ a better jump/ faster forward dash/ more health, then Ibuki should have great walk speed as well!

Ibuki having average walk speed makes absolutely no sense. Not only does she need it offensively, but she needs this defensively for not having a reversal. You need to be able to position yourself better if you don’t have reversals and being able to walk away from pressure better.

Offensively she needs this to be able to get in faster and apply stronger pressure since many of her pressure tools will be made fair and push her away. Her overheads are very slow so she has to rely on her ground game to get in and apply pressure.

  1. EX neckbreaker

  2. EX Neckbreaker is fully projectile invincible on frame 1 till its active frames finish.

Ibuki is the only character in the game without a way to get past projectiles. It is a completely one sided match to fight characters like Guile because she has no way to get past most of the characters’ projectiles. This is a huge oversight.

To account for this massive problem, she should at least be able to use meter to at least get a punish. EX neckbreaker is never used ever because for 1 bar it is just not worth the damage to do in combos, and it otherwise has no property that makes it usable in other circumstances. By making EX neckbreaker completely projectile invincible it will succeed much more as a tool to punish projectile users.

  1. Yoroitoshi

  2. Yoroitoshi is now -13 on block.

  3. The second part of Yoroitoshi activates sooner making it a true block string.

  4. The first part of Yoroitoshi now does 330 damage.

Currently Yoroitoshi is one of the easiest punished moves in the game which makes no sense due to its usage. It does a little bit of damage by itself when used for punishes or reversals, and should still be easily punishable but not by 70+ frames.

Final changes that allow the character to properly fit her image as Capcom designed her to be as well as allowing her to be a strong, competitive, but balanced character:

  1. Hammer kick

  2. Hammer Kick should be -2 on block (Just like Xiaoyu’s)

  3. Hammer Kick should have a lot more pushback on block.

These changes are very reasonable since her hammer kick is among the slowest unique overheads in the game and is too unsafe on block. It is very similar to Xiaoyu’s overhead although Xiaoyu’s starts up 1 frame faster, is -2 on block, punishes backdashes, and groundbounces for easy high damage combos. The least they could do with Ibuki’s hammer kick is make it safe on block.

  1. Tsumuji

  2. LK and MK Tsumuji will have massive pushback on block (Just like MK Tsumuji in SSF4)

The Tsumuji nerf in 2013 made Tsumuji unfairly unsafe which significantly weakened Ibuki’s pressure game. By increasing the pushback of LK and MK Tsumuji on block, Tsumuji would still no longer be abusable like it currently is, but it not be unsafe like it is currently. These changes help maintain her image as a character that gets in and out quickly.

  1. St LP:

  2. St LP xx St MP TC has as much pushback as St LP on hit only

St LP pressure is gone with St LP being -1 on block and having short range. Lowering its frame advantage on block to -1 and reducing its range was severely damaging to her playstyle. As compensation for this her St LP TC should have its pushback modified so that she could combo afterwards with spin kick which is a 1 frame link.

  1. Kunai

  2. Kunai can be canceled into EX kunai.

If you could cancel a Kunai (which currently is unsafe when used in many situations) into EX Kunai then you can use EX kunai to make the Kunai safer which would significantly increase the usefulness of an EX Kunai. Kunai used offensively is currently very risky and on hit the reward is completely underwhelming. You get a 30 damage knockdown that can be quick recovered. With this change she would be properly rewarded for using Kunai offensively without getting big damage.

I feel that these changes will make Ibuki how she should be. Without going overboard and making all of her moves better or just outright deleting her weaknesses, I tried to make her main moves at least as competent as other characters’ moves. Furthermore with her huge weaknesses still in place she will still be a difficult character to use but a lot more viable due to her strengths actually being significant. [/details][/details]

- Juri:

[details=Spoiler]stealth nerf to overhead on block should be reverted back to 0 because it doesn’t lead to much (needs a counter hit)
Slightly reduced recovery on MK pinwheel to make link in to super more stable.
Super damage increased to 330
Hard KD on clHP
EX dive kick bounces higher
Increased damage on cHP 75>80, and jHP> 75>90[/details]

- Lars:

[details=Spoiler]fMK improved on hit +1>+3
Increase speed of avalanche Stomp cancel (Stomp>LP)

- Lei:

[details=Spoiler]Decrease the recovery after his super art. Currently he recovers just a bit ealier than his opponent due to the animation afterwards.
Forward Dash - SLIGHT distance increase

Alter the stance priorities and make his drunk stance accessible earlier

Normal Stance
s.HP - hold forward cancels to Panther stance
s.HK - Damage increased from 90 to 100

Drunken Stance
s.LP - Damage increased from 30 to 40 - Special Cancelable
s.HK - Jump Cancel on hit
Spinning Headbutt - Damage increased from 80 to 140 (the move has a 38F startup ffs.)

Back Turn
MP - Special Cancelable
HP - Startup reduced to 8F (to allow s.LP - s.HP to link)

Play dead
Allow tech roll as an option to get out of play dead (Might be too good, but play dead is pretty bad right now so I dunno.)

Panther
MK - Knockdown on air hit
MP - Special Cancelable
HP - Special Cancelable

Dragon
HK - Damage increased to 100
LK - Cancelable to LP
LP - Special Cancelable

Snake
LK - Cancelable to MK on hit only
MK - Special cancelable
HK - Float on air hit[/details]

- Nina:

Spoiler

lower the juggle potential on her specials or decrease the damage

- Poison:

[details=Spoiler]More significant damage buff for Poison
Have Love Me Tender go over projectiles when timed right (easier timing)[/details]
[/details]

New additions:

[details=Spoiler]-Characters (up to Capcom imo)

  • New gem types eg. Meter stealing,status effects,maybe a mechanic that blocks gem activation for a short period of time,partner/launcher burst
  • New stages, character themes (iconic street fighter and tekken stages). pandora theme
  • Offline content: Secret teams and stories; gallery mode; jukebox;
  • Tournament mode

DLC:

  • Two gem bundles: an all DLC boost gem pack and an all DLC assist gem pack similar to the costume bundles? It’s a chore to download and pay multiple gem packs.
  • Some new color pack(s) + an all color bundle
  • Gems should be free to download (currently players can buy themselves an advantage)
    [/details]

Bug fixes:

[details=Spoiler]- Paul sometimes recovers 1f earlier from blockstun (one of his guard animations recovers a frame earlier than it should)

  • Bob’s LK Spinner Ball whiffs the 2nd hit sometimes as 1P but not 2P (happens mainly in the corner)
  • M Bison’s cr.HP makes the wrong hit sound on the later frames (might not be a bug)
  • Xiaoyu’s Wave Crest is 1f slower on the PC version
  • Ogre’s (Ex) Blazing kick damage values need to be adjusted [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvfJEkBg74[/details]
  • Akuma’s raging demon does not activate the super art gem (+20% damage increase) [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sf1nD5VlyQ[/details]
  • It is possible to jump out of Akuma’s overhead kara raging demon, when you hold back or downback only. [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C60LjeA5IMI[/details]
  • Cody cannot release badstone between charge levels (E.G. if he doesn’t release a level 2 badstone on the frame it becomes level 2 he has to wait until he reaches level 3 badstone before throwing it.)
  • Cody’s crouching knife attacks are not considered crouching attacks.
  • Cody’s NJ HP causes a knockdown state on counterhit grounded opponents (Was a weird bug that didn’t exist in v2012 but was introduced in v2013.)
  • Pandora wall bounce glitch

[details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdqKYLrlLJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j3oVIlnPxw[/details]

  • Bison super art bug
Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv3KsQO0RMg

Yoshimitsu: strange windmill interaction when the opponent rolls past him

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtU9WyVVlE0

  • Floating Hugo glitch
Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsI6EdMyyk

[/details]

Hitboxes:

[details=Spoiler]-Ogre’s hitbox changes size at different points in his neutral crouching animation and during proximity guard, blockstun, hitstun, and his blockstun recovery animation. This should be changed so his size is constant.
-Julia’s hitbox gets bigger during crouching proximity guard, blockstun, and her blockstun recovery animation. This should be changed so her size is constant.

  • Vega’s hitbox is currently as large as Sagat’s, while most large hitbox characters have more health. It would make sense to reduce the hitbox
  • Certain characters (Abel, Bryan, Kuma) have abnormal hitboxes, causing some combos to whiff (not exactly a bug but this should be fixed)
  • Kuma’s hurtbox in hunting stance needs to be adjusted. Currently his head doesn’t have a hurtbox.
    -Blanka/Ogre cross art whiffs on Kuma [details=Spoiler]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1j2K9s6h78
    [/details][/details]

Character request list:

[details=Spoiler]Pacman and Megaman for Xbox 360 and Pc
alternate version (to avoid copyright issues) of Cole for non-PS3 systems
SF side:
Ports from the SF IV series inlcuding ver. 2013/14
E. Honda
Fei-Long
Gen
Makoto
Rose
C. Viper
Alex
R. Mika
Karin
Urien
Dan
Q
Yang
Yun

Tekken side:
Anna Williams
Dragunov
Feng Wei
Jun
Lee
Leo
Miguel
Zafina
[/details]

Other:

[details=Spoiler]-Possibillity to save a replay after each match with a button press.

  • Arcade port of SFxT
  • ease up on the lights in the Pitstop and Pandora’s Box stages[/details]

SFxT General Discussion #4 - Witty title
SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive
#2

Would anyone else be interested in requesting new gem presets? Currently, I think the meter set is just really strong, and other than that, only the attack and balance sets are situationally useful. If we could come to a consensus of some new sets that would be useful and represent a range of playstyles, we could include those in our change requests.


SFxT General Discussion #4 - Witty title
SFxT General Discussion #4 - Witty title
#3

Apart from the SF characters getting nerfed a bit too hard and maybe some new content, I don’t think we need to change much. Still, the stuff you listed seems pretty legit!


#4

I have to say this is a very nice list. Improving PC net would be awesome.

Personally, I’d like to see Gen in this game.

I also think all Alpha Counter -> raw tag should either be safe for everyone, or not safe at all for any character (unless tag canceled of course), and I think slow ACs (start-up of 15+) should be faster.


#5

Juri’s Kasatsushi should work against Double Rocket Punch and Penetrating Fist as a fix.


#6

Certainly.

That reminds me: aren’t there a few characters who’s alpha counter don’t share the universal rule of the mechanic? Those should be fixed.

Also maybe adjusting alpha counters of characters that tend to whiff often (Lars for one)?

Also, not sure if this is considered normal:

Just recently found Law infinite (thank you Doopliss):


#7

Can you elaborate please? I’m not sure I know what you’re talking about.

All Law players going to EVO should start working on that infinite so that it would be (ab)used during the tournament. I’m looking forward to it.

The chip damage for that meaty EX Blaze is ridiculous btw.


#8

Roknin mentioned that Marduk’s AC doesn’t have hard knockdown. Is it a myth or is it really the case?


#9

My PC version training mode claims it is a hard knockdown.


#10

I’ll kick off the gem discussion with my gem set ideas.

Offense
001 Immense Power Lv.1 / Connect with 5 normals / Damage +10% / 20s
019 Immense Power Lv.1 / Partner connects with 1 launcher / Damage +10% / 20s
088 Fortitude Lv.1 / Have 4 of your attacks blocked / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s

Defense
085 Fortitude Lv.1 / Block 5 hits / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s
203 Onslaught Lv.2 / Block 10 hits / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
152 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Tech 1 throw / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Meter
(no change)

Utility (SF)
212 Onslaught Lv.2 / Connect with 1 launcher / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
098 Fortitude Lv.2 / Opponent uses a super art / Damage Reduction +110 / 15s
144 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Perform 1 reversal / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Utility (TK)
214 Onslaught Lv.2 / Partner connects with 1 launcher / Cross Gauge Acquisition +40% / 15s
022 Immense Power Lv.2 / Use a super art / Damage +20% / 15s
121 Divine Speed Lv.1 / Get hit by 4 normals / Movement speed +10% / 20s

Balance
017 Immense Power Lv.2 / Connect with 1 launcher / Damage +20% / 15s
085 Fortitude Lv.1 / Block 5 hits / Damage Reduction +80 / 20s
205 Onslaught Lv.1 / Have 4 of your attacks blocked / Cross Gauge Acquisition +20% / 20s


#11

Ok so the problem in the Ogre vid is the weird damage changes when the moves hit meaty or not right?
How should the Law restand be adjusted? Simply remove the restand or limit it somehow? It has a lot of mixup potential… then again Law doesn’t really need it.

I can’t quick rise after Marduk’s AC. But the ACs should definitely be adjusted.

Do you mean his Megaton earthquake (surprise attack)?

I like the setups. Imo we also need some movement speed gems (actually makes anti airing a bit more difficult and is useful for Akuma’s dive kick) and a better pandora preset (I think there is a meter gem in that preset, which is pretty much useless)


#12

Working as intended. Both moves cannot be reflected or countered. Juri’s counter should not be an exception to the “can’t be reflected or countered” ability of those moves (same with Cody’s Badstone)


While if they did a balance patch I doubt it would be as extensive as I’d like in terms of giving characters new options there are a number of characters who should have a few new properties on moves:

Return Gief’s walk speed to 2012 status
Paul - Walk speed buff to 35/25 (Currently 31/20) - Reduce backdash from 27 to 24
Cody - Walk speed buff to 38/28 (Currently 35/20) - Reduce forward dash frame count from 18 to 16
Lei - Walk speed buff to 30/30 (Currently 30/25) - Reduce backdash from 27 to 24
Lei - Walk speed in Drunken buffed to 40/18 (Currently 30/15)
Lei - Walk speed buff in Crane buffed to 22.5/22.5 (Currently 20/20)
Marduk - Walk speed buff to 25/18 (Currently 21/15.5)
Guy - Walk speed buff to 45/35 (Currently 45/30. 35backwards would match current SF4)
Kuma - Walk speed buff in regular stance to 20/18 (Currently 18/16)
Ken - Walk speed buff to 42.5/32.5 (Currently 40/30. He doesn’t have the Kara throw from SF4 so it seems fair)
Juri - Reduce forward dash frame count from 20 to 18

Cody/Guy/Poison/Yoshimitsu/Zangief - Close LK changed to a low hitting attack.

Cody
Make Cody’s cr.LK 3F and chainable to lights, leave -4F on block 0F on hit.
Far MP - Special Cancelable
Far HP - Damage increased to 100
Far HK - Float on air hit
B.MP - Always knockdown on air hit
cr.MP - JP increased by 1
cr.HP - JP increased by 1
cls,HP - JP increased by 1 - Pushback on hit/block reduced
cls MP - pushback on hit/block reduced
f.MP - Pushback on hit/block reduced
NJ HP - Counterhit no longer knocks down on ground hit damage increased to 110 JP increased from 0 to 3
FJ MP - Startup reduced from 9F to 6F float on air hit
F+HK - Floats higher on hit, damage increased to 100
HK Ruffian - Recovery reduced, leg has air crush damage increased to 90
MK Ruffian - More active frames
Overhead is now +5F on hit and can be performed while holding the knife
Zonk - High crush properties, mid body invincibility increased to reach active frames at level 3. Hurtbox shrunk to allow Cody to Zonk through Low Tiger shots properly.
Badstone throw arc improved. Startup reduced for all versions, cannot combo into LP/MP versions though.

LP-MP-MP-HP Final Fight Chain Combo added

Knife changes
s.LP - frame advantage increased from 0F on block 4F on hit to 1F on block 8F on hit
cr.LP - frame advantaged increased from -2F on block +2F on hit to 0F on block +6F on hit
cr.MP - special cancelable
s.MP - hitbox status returned to 2012
s.HP - hitbox increased slightly
cr.HP - startup reduced to 8F
Knife throw startup reduced to 20F

Balrog -
Reduce startup of Balrog’s cr.LP by 1F and recovery by 1F
Increase the amount of air control Balrog has during NJ HP
FJ HK cause a ground bounce
Far MK - Hits Low
Far HK - Special Cancelable
cr HP - Arm is air crush
crMK - JP increased by 1 startup reduced by 1F
cls HP - JP increased by 1
cr.HK - JP increased by 1
EX Dash Straight - Wall bounce on air hit
TAP - Crumple on counterhit
Buffalo Headbutt - Aircrush after first 6f startup for all versions
Dash Upper HK - frame advantage increased from +1F on hit -7F on block to +2F on hit -5F on block damage increased to 80

Blanka
Blanka - Far MK hits low changed to +0F on hit -5F on block cancelable to hop forward/backward
cr.HP - cancelable to Hop forward/Backward

Marduk - Far LK hits low


#13

Can’t say much about Cody but there is some interesting stuff for Balrog. I hope @Darknid checks it as he is a pretty experienced Balrog player.

About Lars. Personally I think he is a well balanced character. The only things I would currently adjust are the hitbox of his alpha counter and his cl. hk. With a start up of 10 frames its usability is limited to jump ins. On hit it’s +5 but it doesn’t allow any follow up due to the push back.


#14

More hitbox fixes:
-Ogre’s hitbox changes size at different points in his neutral crouching animation and during proximity guard, blockstun, hitstun, and his blockstun recovery animation. This should be changed so his size is constant.
-Julia’s hitbox gets bigger during crouching proximity guard, blockstun, and her blockstun recovery animation. This should be changed so her size is constant.


#15

Might want to add this video to the Kuma/Ogre/Blanka cross art whiff “glitch”:

Also, what about Akuma’s Raging Demon not activating the super art damage boost gem (+20%)? Or is it simply because Raging Demon doesn’t count as a super? Did it already get fixed in 2013? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sf1nD5VlyQ


#16

Thanks for the video and I totally forgot about the raging demon bugs!
The overhead kara demon is pretty irritating as well. It might not be a bug though… I wonder whether they are going to adjust it in SF4.

Nope it didn’t get fixed afaik.


#17

Ken having a faster walk speed makes perfect sense

Rose added to this game would also be nice, she could make a SICK point character and the fact that this game is heavily footsie based will definitely help her on the long run…I even thought of some sexy combo ideas for her

C. Viper would transition nicely as well…she can be like the SF version of Nina in terms of damage output loool

Other than that this thread is legit, shouts out to everyone contributing, you lot are the best! :smiley:


#18

Balancing tweaks:
-Adjust Hwoarang’s Motion Switch (KKK) so he can’t use it while crouching, as it makes him immune to throw mix-ups.


@ 7:12
-Adjust Hwoarang’s Fire Storm (FLA MK>LK) string so that it has reduced blockstun or whiffs crouchers entirely. Reducing the blockstun from 21 to 19 to make it +2 on block would probably be fair.


#19

I’m on the fence when it comes to new characters, so I clearly don’t know what’s the best thing to do. Added a request list just in case.

Also Law and according to the uploader some other characters can dash through Blanka during his wake up animation.


#20

This is rather unique and I kinda like this tech but here it is anyway:

Character request: yeah, it’s tricky. But meh, why not? Not top priority anyway.

  • “New” SF characters: Alex, R. Mika, Karin, Urien,…
  • Maybe some AE ports?
  • Tekken: Leo, Miguel, Dragunov, Anna Williams…