Super/AE General Discussion: Abel, Adon, Akuma, Balrog, Blanka

Adon is a hard fight: if only there was a better normal to beat his jag kick (arcing one)

From what i found is for his jag kick: will make his jag kick whiff at close range (little out of range).
-needs more testing but standing mp beats or trades. (at lp rekka range) seems like a good normal but i am honestly not sure.

– we all know about the neutral jump –

jag tooth: if timed right beats his jag tooth.

st.HK vs jag kick. Godly. And if you can space right, whenever you make him whiff mercilessly punish with rekka. And vs. jag tooth neutral jump HK it will tag him on either side, then st.MP>cr.lp xx Rekka

Against Abel, jump in option select HK chickenwing will beat all of his options, except U2. If he does roll, the chickenwing will autocorrect and put you back in his face.

I’m 99.9% sure this won’t work in AE though, since the thrown invincibility of CW was taken away.

You can also apply this against Akuma to chase his teleport (keep in mind you can’t safe jump him though).

actually i was screwing around in training mode, and found out you can safe jump his lp, and fp DPs with jump in fierce from a back throw. back throw take a step back, and safe jump as you would other characters.

fierce would stuff his lp dp cold, and his fp dp would whiff. mp dp would still hit tho. it may be useful if your opponent dosent know the set up.

besides, i dont know if ive ever played an akuma who would wake up with mp dp

Let’s say we get an untechable knockdown on Balrog. What’s our best option on his wakeup? He has ex dash punch (with armor) that is safe and stop our pressure.

Something I shared with Sendmaster for Balrog–Meaty cr.HK.

Here are the situations:

  1. Headbutt/Regular dashing punches: Untechable knockdown
  2. EX Headbutt: Dodge and punish (not sure how large the window is, but I normally just do cr.LP xx Rekkas, needs more testing)
  3. EX Uppercut (blowback version): Dodge and Flame Kick/cr.LP xx Rekkas or block [[Please re-test]]
  4. EX Upper (combo version): Dodge and block only
    5) EX Straight/ground straight: No good–Fei gets hit
    6) EX Overhead: No good–Fei gets hit

You can also do this in block strings as a frame trap for the same effect. Do cr.LK (x1, x2, or x3) > cr.HK. If Balrog tries to squeeze in any of these moves, you get similar results. As a frame trap though, there’s less time to decide when to block if you choose to do that (since you don’t get the luxury of starting up the move while your opponent is downed). What’s good about this is that it makes him second guess throwing out that random/wake-up headbutt or dashing punch. Mix it up with throws to catch his dashing punches as well.

If Balrog blocks the sweep, I believe his best response would be a return-fire sweep, although it’s a 2-frame link. I also haven’t tested if the pushback from Fei’s cr.HK makes the 2-framer even tighter (1-frame or no link) for Balrog. I’m guessing that his cr.MK would be too short to reach though, so the probability of being punished with a combo is low to none. Also, if he misses the punishment and you block the sweep, you can reversal with HP Super.

cr.MK also stays pretty low to accomplish a similar thing, but I find that its less lenient. cr.HK stays lower to the ground for a longer period of time (during recovery) while cr.MK starts low, but recovers a little higher allowing it to be punished. There’s also little threat from cr.MK unless you have Super stocked; with the untechable from the sweep, you can set up additional pressure and force the opponent to really think about his wake-up options.

Depending on your distance, Rog will be able to punish the blocked sweep with jab > BnB. If you really want the untechable, meaty is much better, since you can link into sweep, if blocked it puts you in a very advantageous position and doesn’t leave you free for punish if he backdashes. Also, considering how easy it is to time meaties on him, even out of regular knockdowns, I don’t think untechables are as important.

I think the best OS against him is meaty :df::lk::db::df::mk:~:lk:. It beats every dash punch aside from EX Straight, puts you in block if he EX Headbutts and is easily confirmable out of. It loses to super, EX straight as mentioned, both ultras and backdash outside of corner. Midscreen you can do :d::lk::df::r::hp::d::lk: to catch backdashes, but you will lose to EX Heabutt and the same stuff above.

Remember that his dash punches are not safe and poorly spaced straights can be punished with s.jab x rekka (maybe only the fierce ones, not sure). I focus a lot on this match up, since it’s very footsie based, you can some times catch rush punches and the ones that can break armor are easily punishable. Never jump in on him, since he has one of the best AA normals and the always present risk of heabutt > ultra.

I also like U2 in this match, since it’s a science proven fact that every Balrog will spam jabs like there’s no tomorrow. This is, however, a very personal/preference oriented decision. If you’re pro, you can also OS U2 as :d::df::lk::d::df::r::hk::mk::lk: (all credit to neville in the Lab Findings thread).

The point of using cr.HK is to dodge attacks and provide an opportunity to put pressure on Rog. Meaty cl.MP does nothing to defend against any of his EX moves and leaves you open for Headbutts as well. It’ll only beat spammed normals/techs and throws on wake-up, which let’s face it, is a pretty bad idea for any character. Sweeping up close is very punishable, yes, but cr.HK does have quite a bit of range to it and it should be used as such. I see what you’re saying about cl.MP, but it doesn’t quite serve the purpose that I’m prescribing. cr.HK does work and it works well–I’ve used it against many higher-level Rogs effectively.

I must also disagree about untechables being useless in this fight (or useless in general, however you’re trying to put it). Rog is weakest on wake-up. In a standing battle, Fei has difficulty zoning Rog the way he does with other characters. Being able to get an untechable or to force Rog to waste EX meter to wake up safely is pretty sweet. You also get the opportunity to do something that you say to never to do him–jump in. That’s a chance for a Tenshin set-up, frame trap or tick throw.

Oh yeah, you’ve got a point there. I didn’t think stuff throughly completely ignored the drawbacks of a in the situation you’re prescribing. However, I still prefer meaty since that’s a lot more damage potential than a sweep. is a good choice too. its just harder to land perfectly meaty against the startup of EX headbutt so you can still block.

sweeping would be a simpler solution because its garaunteed to duck the headbutt.

both are good options, so it will come to player preference

Bump post. Transferring data, updating main post.

Yeah he explained it really well. I pretty much wanted to answer the guy who he answered to, but I have no idea what I’m talking about trying to explain what Akuma’s do, and what they can do etc etc. lol, it’s not working too well yet with these threads is it? People keep searching for the individual threads. Hopefully it’ll get better :slight_smile:

Just takes time I guess :-/ I’m committed to keeping these threads updated though, so hopefully people will start seeing information they like, and eventually will start posting here instead. I have faith :lol:

Man, meaty cr.HK. Definitely have to give that a shot. Thanks for keeping things organized, Kobra. Can’t wait for AE to make it out here.

So I played a very skilled able today on PSN. The matches were very close but overall it came down to me getting hit by that damned U2. I mean when it is spaced properly what is there to do? Also he was stuffing EVERYTHING, rekkas and cw were being stuffed by standing lk. I mean it was dismal… then once I’d get the lead BAM U2… was a learning experience but damn it there was nothing I could do.

U2 can be backdashed very successfully; doing that instead of jumping can throw off Abel. Backdash starts invincible, then has 1 grounded frame (vulnerable), then it’s airborne. Being on the ground the entire time can visually make it seem like you’re able to be grabbed, leading him to release early and whiff right in your face. Otherwise, I guess you could gamble neutral jumping.

As far as st.LK, do you only use Rekka and CW to get in? Playing footsies with st.HP/cr.HP/cr.MK would help I think. Keep a nice distance out of step-kick range, naturally, and when he creeps in throw out one of those normals to stuff him. It provides a nice defensive wall which isn’t 100% impenetrable, but makes it difficult for him to do anything outside of jumping in, rolls, and certain specials. The Rekkas and CW will become more effective once you establish that he can’t just randomly whiff pokes in front of him by counter-poking.

Did not know you ould backdash that ultra, i’ll have to go to the lab on that one.

And no I dont only use rekkas and cw to get in, but I did try to punish those whiffed lk.'s with the pokes you mentioned they either whiffed or were hit by another I guess I need to work on my footsies/spacing.

isnt the start up on his u2 nerfed
so i guess in AE back dashing it should work even better

actually, its no longer armored while he is attacking. so you should be able to just hit him out of it.

youre not going to be able to whiff punnish a light attack. but if he is throwing them out randomly you could randomly throw out some far standing jabs with a buffered HP rekka behind them. you want the tip of your fist to hit his foot. you should be able to randomly stuff his lk and get free rekkas when you do

you arent risking anything but the 40mg for having your spacing be off. and since a lp will recover fast, you wont get whiff punnished, and you will still have time to react to any other moves he tosses out

its not going to hit him every time, but if you land it once, he wont do it again

That sounds a bit tough to do. Wouldn’t you risk getting out HP Rekka like you would with a cr.LK ~ HP Rekka OS? The input sounds like it would have to be really fast and on point with each st.LP whiff to serve that purpose well.