Super/AE General Discussion: Cammy, Chun-Li, Cody, C. Viper, Dan

fei-long

#1

Link back to Master Guide: http://shoryuken.com/f273/read-first-fei-long-master-guide-261097/

Please discuss any and all relevance to the Cammy, Chun-Li, Cody, C.Viper and Dan matchups. If you have any questions about the matchups please ask them here, for the time being we will keep both types of info until our current verison is obsolete and we move on to AE when or if it become available to consoles.

Cammy

Chun-Li


#2

Reserve


#3

Reserve again


#4

I need to know if you can punish Viper’s EX Burning Kick with Ultra 1 or HP Rekkas on block. Someone please test this quick!!!


#5

Fei’s optimal range is footsies range and closer. Viper’s not too handy with footsies since her pokes are slow in general. At this range, you need to be mindful of Burning Kicks and low Thunder Knuckles, but not much else. You can freely Rekka chip/poke her as long as she is grounded.

Burning Kicks are punishable by using Focus Attack, cr.MK to dodge (then combo into BnB), Flame Kicks/aerials with good timing, or Ultra 2. Viper’s “pressure” is essentially a mix-up between front-hitting and cross-up Burning Kicks; her Thunder Knuckles can’t pressure if you block one since each TK has massive start-up. If you’re having a lot of trouble with Burning Kicks, choose U2 to scare her off, but don’t get baited into whiffing it.

Thunder Knuckles are not punishable on block, but they can be easily intercepted. If she does something like cr.MP xx MP/LP TK, you can CW or Flame Kick in between (CW would be the better, safer choice though). As a poke, only LP TK will go under Rekkas, but otherwise, the start-up of this move is significant. Viper can’t use this effectively unless you give her the opening.

If you ever manage to get Viper down, do a meaty cr.MK/MP from max range as these moves will beat most of her options. Lock her down in the corner and she’ll have a tough time getting out.


#6

Thanks Nosone, I’ll think over your advice. I may try being more aggressive with pokes next time. Repeately falling for EX Seismo might have led me to think that up close is to Viper’s advantage. I stumbled over whether to commit to U2 during the matches, but I’ll see if I can spot some habits from my opponent.


#7

EX Seismo you can think of as a DP. It’ll hit you if you do something that’s not tight.

On the other hand, it’s not like a DP since you can do light pokes and still be safe. It takes about what, 19 frames for it to start up? That’s way more than a light attack takes to start, become active, and then recover. You can do meaty cr.MK, cr.MP, etc. etc. and you’ll recover in time to block, launch a Flame Kick or whatever.


#8

Just picking up the post. Hope you’re stll around TC.


#9

Really needing some advanced notes on the Chun Li match. There’s about 4 gun Chuns in my region and I can’t beat any of them.

My problem seems to be a combination of her fast walk speed and her quick pokes.


#10

The Chun match-up hasn’t changed at all since Vanilla really, minus the fact that Chun can now combo into Ultra 2. I wrote something on the match-up quite some time ago, but I think now it deserves a reboot:

Ultra: 2
— Focus punishing a move can already lead to cl.MP xx HK CW, and there won’t many any other opportunities to use Ultra 1 for the most part. U2 stops meaty cross-up flips and jump-ins from being a major problem by turning them into damage opportunities. If you get into range for Flame Kick FADC against your opponent often, you may consider using U1, but I’m inclined to think its not worth it since Chun’s offense can be scary.

Long range
— Chun is ineffective here. She can throw FBs all day and you can absorb, dodge, or block them all day. Absorbing them will put you in a strong defensive position since you’ll build U2 early on (a solid tactic). This stops her offense from being a threat during the match so you can focus on playing footsies and absorbing her long pokes. Forget about throwing EX CW from this range, and just close in by walking once you feel that you’re ready (or let the Chun player close in when she’s tired).

At this range, Chun will consider throwing FBs and dashing in to knock you hit you with Hazanshu, st.MP, or a cr.HK. Absorb the fireball at the appropriate range and backdash so you can whiff punish, or block the incoming attacks so you don’t lose positioning. If Chun looks like she’s already caught up to the FB (by using FADC or just by dashing up a lot), don’t think about Focusing it. She’s already free to hit you by that point so just block it or dodge.

Mid range
— This is where Chun can be more annoying since her st.HK has such long reach and is tough to focus because of the angle that it comes in. Chun is also prone to step in to do cr.HK and st.MP from time to time or dash in and throw. Focus is generally a strong response to her pokes, but you have to recognize when she does st.MP as it can be canceled into a move that will break your Armor. Have a sharp eye about whether you can land Lv2 or not; if you only get Lv1, it may not be worth dashing in unless you’re willing to take a chance on a point-blank CW/Flame Kick. Her up-close mix-ups can lead to a lot of damage, especially if you get caught late teching with a Hazanshu.

cr.HP is great here for punishing st.HK whiffs since it goes right under and hits Chun where she’s vulnerable. It’ll also keep Chun in check for when she tries to dash forward or come into position for cr.HK/st.MP. This range is where you’ll find the opportunity to push Chun to the wall. If you can’t get her to slip up defensively, approach cautiously to just about where her cr.MK/st.MP works. With strong reactions you should be able to stop her from dashing in to throw or do a Hazanshu. Keep blocking until that time comes. A random MK CW at this range would also be difficult to react to, but choose your spots or you’ll be batted out of the air (for a little damage).


Those are the two ranges you want to be defensively. Once you get Chun into the corner, the mid range point also becomes a strong offensive position since Chun can’t jump at you or throw slow pokes. The only time you want to think about getting close is on a knock down when Chun has no meter to defend herself; as a defensive position, close range is horrible for Fei since Chun’s normals give great frame advantage and can be used to tick throw really effectively there.

Your mind should be set on the far wall. That’s your only goal for the first 20 seconds of the match: “How do I get Chun there?”. The answer is usually patient walking. Often, Chun will backdash/walk her way into the wall since her mid-range spacing is important to her, as well as her FB charge. Many Chuns also foolishly think that staying at long range is important and will backdash much sooner than they should. Once you’re ready to go on the offensive, sometimes the best offensive action is to just walk forward to mess with her spacing.

Patience is definitely key as with all fights, but spacing is even more important here. Until you’re at that mid-range point you should be care free. At mid-range just keep in mind that you’re looking for something to punish rather than for something to defend against and base your spacing on that. Keep at least one EX meter stocked for that range and you’ll definitely find something.


#11

Cheers nosone, I’ll work those tips into my game. I do tend to get a little impatient when she’s chipping away.


#12

ok, update.

I took those tips and they work, but only with more defensive minded chuns. What if you’ve got that scary bitch rushing you down with what seems like every option select in the game? This one guy in particular once I beat him with my solid tactics, he just rushed me the shit down, I mean like a proper beating.

You can’t jump, her st-hp is too good, she can reaction st-hk the CW from anything further than mid-close, rekka’s get out poked, the cr-hp is good, but if she’s following her fire ball, I have to go into crouch block after the focus as I know a sweep is coming…? I’m almost reduced to throwing out psychic Dp’s as she closes in the space.

I may upload the 2 matches, including the assault.


#13

Quick response from my phone since i dont have internet at my apartment yet: Yes, crouch block the sweep and pray for a hazansh–you can lv1 focus that or U2 it. J. HP is not that good unless you only use focus for anti airs. You have to flame kick and st. Hk too. If you have one bar, the walking forward from fireball should be an opportunity rather than something to dread. Anyone with the mindset of offense wont be so ready to block. Launch as soon as you see her shoot it out.

It may sound stupid, but even a random flame kick would be good against someone who is all about offense.


#14

Mike Ross put it rather well when he said something along the lines of;
‘If someone’s going nuts on offense, let them go nuts, they’re just gonna get themselves killed’.

Personally, I like to build Ultra and Super, so if I have the space I FK and Focus every fireball I can while slowly walking Chun to the corner. If they walk behind their fireball at me I Focus back dash and then continue walking the way they came. I don’t even begin to try fucking with her mid screen, the spacing is not gonna be right for Rekkas and you take big damage for small mistakes there.

Because I Focus absorb a lot, and because I rarely use my meter outside of FADCs, I get one or two opportunities during a match to launch an EX CW when she’s walking in behind her fireballs as it’s not something I’ve done at all before. Getting her to that corner after 300+ damage is fantastic. No way for her to fuck with your spacing now. My main concern once I’m there though is her wall jump and the angle she comes down at, dash forward throws, letting her getting momentum for a throw/combo leading to escape, and getting nailed by EX SBK because I was the one going nuts on the offense.

Other than that I am always looking to make her spend meter. Because I feel like such a nob everytime I get smashed by EX SBK. It’s like getting hit by a Gief head-butt, makes me feel like big fool. Also, nowadays I’m using U1, but only for the cool factor of option-selecting a back-dash with it. I’m daft like that.**

Anyway, that’s just my basic thought on it. If you glean something you like from it, feel free, otherwise why have I written this?


#15

Lol, nice tips Spartan, I will def use them. I’m glad you guy’s have kind of backed up my initial thoughts about the mid range game, throwing out pokes is best used sparingly. I get my self in trouble because the more she attacks, the more I try and counter with reckless rekka’s which in turn just put me in more shit.

I feel like an idiot when I miss time the jumping lk to stuff the EX bird, I’m always too early! I’ll put that video up if I can get my net working on my laptop. I wouldn’t mind some tips on where I went wrong and where I went right.


#16

Can some one tell me what the numbers mean like the direction of the stick or post a link to explaining it


#17

Think of the positions of your stick like a number pad

789
456
123

5 is neutral, 7 is u/b, 3 is d/f, etc.


#18

Thanks i was looking for this everywhere