could someone tell me when meaty attacks are supposed to be perfectly safe? I played like 30 games of casual with Alex Valle on saturday and he was telling me how meaty attacks won’t be safe on certain characters. Also, Apoc was explaining how i can store the charge to Vega’s back flip kick. Anyone care to elaborate on that?
Meaty attacks are only safe against guys without an attack that either hits on the first frame, or is invincible until it hits. In practice they are safe against Bison (dictator) and um…Dhalsim. (Although he can reversal teleport) And Vega (claw) without a charge.
Meaty attacks are a big risk but you get a big reward if they connect. Most characters from SF2 HF(I think)have some sort of reversal frame(s)where they can either throw or counter attack. There have been times where I KNOW I perfectly timed a meaty only to be throw right out of it.
The way I see it, I am betting that my opponent will fuck up his reversal and if I win the bet then it’s all good. If I lose then I eat some damage.
So in short, meaty attacks are never “safe”…they are more like “risky”
Yes, Dhalsim doesn’t really have many options in a dizy situation. Depending on character, your best option is to go for a noogie grab then you can get a cross up forward slide into double headbutt. This will dizzy the opponent AGAIN. Unfortunately it only works guaranteed on Chun li (u all can see me do it to NKI on 3v3 LOL) and on Vega. If you have super charged obviously you can go in for just the raw super damage or early rh drill, low short super. My opinion, if they are near death I will just go for the flip throw,(mainly because even if they tech it near death…it does full damage) if not I will do noogies so I can set up another tick throw trap or space them to the distance i want them in. Dhalsim really has no other option that is practical.
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
You can ask anyone who watched me play at Evo, I am absolutely terrible at XSF, and I should not be allowed to teach that game to anyone. Besides, school and work are starting up again, so I won’t really have time to play anything anyway.
Same thing you should do as N.Ryu against Sim, and the same thing I do in practically every match when playing as Chun: don’t fight until you have meter. The round is totally different (in your favor) when you have meter, so why bother attacking before then? Just trade fireballs, Short HK over some low ones, etc until you get meter. Yeah, you may have to block a few, but that’s OK. He’ll stop shooting once you get that meter.
But the important thing is once you get it, for the love of god, don’t just throw it away. So many times people will just use the super as soon as they get it. The reason you spent all the effort building meter is to land that 50% damage.
Practically all meaties come with a risk, because any character can reversal throw you, so unless you’re out of their throw range, it’s not safe. Chun has a few exceptions, though. One is her “magic” st.Fierce (the double palm), which is completely unthrowable about half the time (randomly). If she does a meaty st.Fierce, and you successfully input a reversal throw command, you will not get a reversal throw, but you will hear your normal whiff. If you were holding towards, you get hit; if you were holding back, you block. It happens randomly, and I don’t know why.
Chun’s D/F+RH (the best normal ever) is a completely safe meaty against a lot of characters if done right. If the opponent doesn’t try to reverse, they will be forced to block it, but if they do reverse, most characters still lose:
-Guile’s Flash Kick will completely whiff (backwards)
-Ryu’s DP will be blocked (backwards)
-Zangief’s lariat will lose cleanly
-Deejay’s upkicks will completely whiff (backwards)
Or maybe Valle was talking about safe jump-ins? You can time a jump-in meaty enough so that it will force the opponent to block if they don’t reverse, but if they do reverse, you can block their reversal. This works because there are practically zero moves in ST that hit on the first frame. Ken’s Fierce DP might, but I’m not sure. His Jab and Strong DPs don’t, and Ryu’s DPs don’t either.
You have to initially charge D/B, but after you have it charged, you can let go of down and just charge back. Not as useful as Chun’s stored super or Honda’s stored slam, but good to know, I gues…
NKI IS MY DVD DADDY!
nick: its crazy how much better youve gotten at st. my hats off to you bro. just watching you tear shit up on the cabinet. i dont think we ever got a game in at all tho IIRC =/ guess all that time in japan really paid off and now reaping the benefits hehe.
sorry off topic
I believe all console versions of SF2 are based on the Japanese arcade, which would mean that none of them are perfect to us.
The example Choi cited for me (re: HF) is Dhalsim’s slide as anti-air vs. shotos. In the JPN version, shotos can hit it; in the US version, they can’t. In all home versions, they can.
This is suck!
RYU BEST MAN!
Well, anyone think Evo can have a change of heart if the community can come up with some sort of standard that is both convenient and precise when it comes to playing the games??
yo nki, it was nice finally meeting you despite we didnt get any games in.
anyways more questions:
-whats this i hear about balrogs hp being duckable? and which version does this apply to?
-i heard something about CE sagats tiger uppercut unblockable. any idea how its done?
-how do you “combo” bisons scissor kick into a throw. most of the time i tried it, i get thrown afterwards but there are a few times i can get my throws in.
-can any anti chun tricks with new sim be ported over to old sim?
is there a link to the evo footage?
No, it’ll be on the DVD. Buy the DVD and support future Evo tourneys.
of course im going to buy the dvd
nki said this:
“No, thank YOU SIR!! Your cabinet was the best part about Evo for me (and a lot of other peeps, too). Currently encoding the ST footage. I’ll let everyone know when it’s done.”
is that for the DVD then? if so then my fault thought he was gonna put some random footage up.
Better be random footage on the next set, or bonus matches at least. The Seth Cam was the only thing worth watching on most of those discs last year.
Kesh! the footage NKI is talking about is the 3v3 ST tourny I put on. It is my footage and EVO is not using it for their tourny. But Wizard will be hosting the torrent on this site.
Keep your eyes out for it soon.
Somebody help me out with beating E. Honda? I use Guile, and Balrog(claw).
What are my best Jump-in options with Guile and Balrog(if that is the thing to do)?
Should I turtle? cause with Guile, I normally play aggressive, I just don’t normally understand this match-up. I’m normallly real good with pressure and flash kick traps and such, but it just seems like a tough match-up for me, seeing as I don’t know many people who play with Honda, and it seems like a 50/50 match-up to me.plus I constantly get caught up in the bacbreaker grab into thousand hand slap in the corner. I know he shouldn’t even get that close, but he does psychic headbutts and he makes me whiff flashkicks by doing the lp version of the move. I use the Champion edition version of Guile or the turbo version. Sometimes the ST version.
It seems like an easier match-up for Balrog, considering his pokes and air game, but lately he’s been improving on it. He’s learning not to jump-in as much, and he’s playing alot safer, more turtleing, and stuff like that
Guile owns up Honda pretty bad. Just turtle your ass off and meet him with RH or Fierce in the air when he jumps or butt slams over your booms(he will jump because he has no choice). There isn’t much else to be said except don’t come to him. There is absolutely no reason to go on the offense against honda with most characters, period. You should control the whole match, just don’t let him get in because Honda is a fucking tank when he gets close.
I honestly think Honda has an easier time against Balrog.
SaBrE - thanks for the kind words. Too bad we didn’t get to play. :sad: Next time, eh. :tup:
This is not true. I tested it, and Deejay can not duck Boxer’s st.Fierce in the PSX version, just like he can’t in the arcade version.
Whether or not it exists, I dunno, but I’ve never heard of that before.
Anytime you do point-blank scissor kicks, the opponent gets a free throw on you. The only time you get to throw them is if they mess up. You can do it safely (so that you can’t be thrown) by doing it from max range, and the Short version works best.
The only anti-Chun trick with Sim that I know of is the one Cole mentioned (cross-up Forward slide after noogie). O.Sim can’t do it because the slide is counted as a far move, and because you can’t control O.Sim’s normals, he automatically does the close cr.Forward (N.Sim’s D/B+Forward kick). I really see absolutely no reason to ever play O.Sim, because as far as I know, he has no advantages over N.Sim, only disadvantages.
This may not be the answer you want to hear, but to beat Honda, you just have to turtle that ass. Guile is tailor made to beat Honda…that’s probably one of Honda’s worst fights (if not the worst). Honda has no effective way to get around Guile’s Sonic Booms without being countered. All Honda’s jump-ins and butt slams will lose cleanly to Guile’s j.RH.
With Guile, you should never put forth any offense at all against Honda. Claw actually has a hard time with Honda because Honda can out-turtle you by a lot. Honestly, I don’t even know how Claw is supposed to win that match, other than wall dive shenanigans. If you can’t get that started, you pretty much lose.
You can Flash Kick the hands, but if he sees that coming and fakes, then you will be giving him another throw if you whiff the Flash Kick.
Just use cr.Jab to beat his headbutts. That way you can keep your charge, and you don’t take any risks. (Note: not sure if this works for CE/HF Guile, but it works for ST Guile.)
Does anyone want to write an easy mode ST Dhalsim guide for me? I want to pick him up but I haven’t found much basic info on him. Just the basics would be great, thanks in advance.
I can’t wait for the DVD to come out. I been trying to get my buds into ST for a long time now, and there’s just no excuse since PS2 version is out now. Thanks for all the cool threads and info, NKI and A-Dhalsim!