Super Street Fighter II Turbo, in the house


does anyone still have the pre jump frames for each character?

looking for old data but not available anymore:


The SRK ST wiki has 'em:

Edit: Uh, maybe it doesn’t. Thought it did. That’s odd.


wall dive vortex 0:53
Is there legit no way around this shit? I hate gimmicks in any fighting game the better player can lose because they guessed wrong.


They’re powerful tools, especially Vega’s, but in many cases not completely unstoppable. As usual, the general advice of “play perfect, don’t get caught in them in the first place” applies here, but otherwise, I’ve got some notes:

Honda’s ochio mixups are strong if he’s close. Most characters have tools to prevent Honda from getting that close, so usually the ochio is his way of winning very difficult matchups or expediting matchups he already wins via his very strong defensive tools and hands. The usually way to counter them is to use a strong reversal against the “tick” attempt, e.g. uppercutting the cr.jab or the jump in or whatever it is. In the corner, it’s extremely strong, since he can repeat it again, but again the key is to counter throw or uppercut the tick.

Hawk’s throw loops are extremely powerful. Fortunately, only a handful of people actually know how to pull it off consistently, so it’s not AS serious a threat at Honda or Vega’s wall dives, which are often effective against beginner- or intermediate-level players. The best way to get out is to either bust out a lot of reversals to mess up their timing, or jump out depending on the character you use and the range at which they do the neutral jab. At max range, there’s a small gap between the jab and the grab itself, which lets characters get out via a counter poke or jump or super or what have you. This is true of Dictator, as he has very few jumping frames, so he can jump out outside of corner traps.

Vega’s wall dives are always a problem. Fortunately, anyone with a decent reversal can get out if they have good execution and timing. There are several methods you can use to perform an autocorrect uppercut, depending on the direction in which Claw does the attack, but isn’t a guaranteed out. Good general advice: just block. It’s technically just a 50% effective ratio, so be sure to concentrate on your neutral game as well to prevent getting caught in the first place.


Thanks for the help bro. So do frame perfect counter throws beat tick throws and command throws? Is losing the ability to tech throws worth playing Oken over Nken?


Throws don’t have priority versus another throw. Whoever gets it out first (and if they’re both in range), the first person gets the throw. This applies to both normal and command throws. Throws beat out meaty attacks. Also keep in mind that different characters have different ranges for throws, which is a big factor.

But command throws have more active frames than normal throws, which is why they have a tendency to land more. Plus, most smart grapplers attempt tick throws at ranges where they know the opponent can’t counterthrow, unless they’re trying to bait someone or make a read on someone who has a good reversal to punish it.

Losing the ability to tech throws is a big deal. Teching throws is a great, safe, and reliable way to get out of a bad situation at the cost of a little bit of life. It’s not too hard to tech a throw on reaction either (at least offline).

But O.Ken is demonstrably a better character than N.Ken. O.Ken has great priority on his low kick attacks, great jump in HK, the best uppercut in the game, and a very good fireball game. N.Ken is a solid character but relies heavily on closeup mixups to gain the advantage, an advantage he won’t always get if he’s being beaten in the neutral or zoned out. While I think N.Ken is an extremely fun character to play, and very rewarding to win with, O.Ken’s generally higher up on the tier list because he’s so much better at the neutral game and zoning game.

But N.Ken is too much fun to play. O.Ken is boring in comparison but gets the job done.

Also, you should hit up It’s where most of the community has gone to discuss ST publicly outside of private FB groups.


Also if you hate Claw’s walldive bullshit, O.Ken is one of the better characters at shutting it down.


Somewhat true. If Claw ever attempts to go to the wall while you’re standing, both New and Old Ken can just walk up fierce uppercut as a punish.

That being said, haven’t played as both Kens versus MAO, he is very adept at performing the crossup in such a way that it’ll eat your inputs if you attempt to do a regular uppercut. I don’t think O.Ken actually beats Claw in a match, especially since Claw’s footsies tools are still very effective even against the old shotos’ better priority and range on low pokes.


I didn’t mean to imply he’d beat Claw, just that he doesn’t get wrecked as bad as most do and can actually fight back pretty competently.


I mean, he’s better off than Zangief or Dhalsim, but I often wonder who exactly is a good answer versus Claw. Only characters I can think of who can fight him on close to even footing is Deejay, Claw, O.Sagat, or Boxer. Ken’s good as long as your reads are on-point and you can keep the knee bash mixups going, but it’s hard to be consistent with it.


@eltrouble do you know what is the prejump frames for each characters?


Nope. Not really a technical frame data kinda guy. I just know what I know from basic play testing.


This is from 12 hours ago until about 5 minutes ago. I didn’t know I was still logged on…

So who is RisingStar? assjack/Ritual keeps complaining about his rog at the end of this chat


Oh shit!!! Even Goldie knows about that string on a quarter trick!!!


My 4 person team in this ratio tournament will be: Cammy, O. Dictator, Blanka, O. Honda…


Anyone have translation for this PV with Kurahashi and Kameraya?


Have to ask the other ST heads if they have a rough translation.


[quote=“ilitirit, post:4006, topic:13255”]

Anyone have translation for this PV with Kurahashi and Kameraya?


Kameraya is one of my favourite st players, thanks for this. Sorry no translation.

Is there any more footage of kameraya? I can’t seem to find many videos of him on YouTube.


Sparse footage on YouTube of his matches. As of last year, he’s still active in ST and still a good player. His footsies are insane.