Super Tiers


#1

So… I’m pretty bored, and don’t want to do homework. This is how I’d rank the characters in terms of their supers.

Yun
Urien
Chun
Makoto

Ken
Oro
Dudley
Q
Hugo
Ryu

Elena
Necro
Yang
Akuma
Remy
Sean

Ibuki
Alex
Twelve

And here’s how I would rank the supers… the ones people actually use, that is.

Yun SAIII (Genei Jin)
Urien SAIII (Aegis Reflector)
Chun SAII (Houyokusen)
Makoto SAII (Abare Tosanami)

Ken SAIII (Shippu Jinrai Kyaku)
Oro SAIII (Tengu Stone)
Oro SAII (Yagyou Dama)
Dudley SAIII (Corkscrew Blow)
Q SAI (Critical Combo Attack)
Hugo SAI (Gigas Breaker)
Elena SAII (Brave Dance)
Q SAII (Double Deadly Combo)
Dudley SAI (Rocket Uppercut)
Hugo SAIII (Hammer Frenzy/Mountain)
Ryu SAI (Shinkuu Hadouken)
Ryu SAIII (Denjin Hadouken)

Makoto SAI (Seichusen Godanzuki)
Necro SAIII (Electric Snake)
Yang SAII (Tenshin Senkyutai)
Akuma SAI (Messatsu Gouhadou)
Necro SAI (Magnetic Storm)
Remy SAI (Light of Justice)
Yang SAIII (Seiei Enbu)
Remy SAII (Supreme Rising Rage Flash)
Sean SAI (Hadou Burst)
Hugo SAII (Megaton Press)
Elena SAI (Spinning Beat)

Sean SAII (Shoryu Cannon)
Alex SAII (Boomerang Raid)
Ibuki SAI (Kasumi Suzaku)
Twelve SAI (XNDL)
Alex SAI (Hyperbomb)
Makoto SAIII (Tanden Renki)


#2

Actually, I think XNDL is better than Boomerang Raid. :bluu:


#3

Hmm, I think Ibuki’s Kazumi Suzaku needs to be one column higher.
I’d switch Abare with Shippu. Megaton Press should drop a column also.
You know, I do love Q, but Deadly Double should probably be a column lower also.
Sorry, but it can be a real gamble to use.
100% agree with Aegis Reflector.

I would put it above Genei-jin…but that’s because Urien is my favorite character and I am biased.:rofl:


#4

IMO Shippu is better than Houyokusen.

Shippu has a like bajillion good hit confirms, whereas Houyokusen’s 2 most useful ones both can be blocked low… and Chun’s only overhead option is UOH. Plus Shippu has a shorter bar… Houyokusen’s only advantage is the damage and that scare factor Chun gets when she’s stocked.


#5

If anything, I would put Shippu in a tie with Hoyukou-sen. I love Shippu, but Hoyu is an amazing super. And Chun-Li has quite a few options to get you with it.


#6

Chun SA2 is only good because of the 4 years you have to hit confirm either cr.mk or b+fp. If Chun didn’t have those options, SA2 would rank as mid-tier at best. The only redeeming factors about it is that it goes through fireballs, and you have the option of air resets after it connects.

Ultradavid- Stop slacking & get back to your homework.


#7

oh wow…makoto sa3 @@


#8

Tanden < absolutely everything else for every character that anyone “actually uses”?
Damn…as an actual super I’d put it above at least Spinning Beat Hya, XNDL, Tenshin, Seiei, and Hado Burst…

And if you’re including supers people play, you missed Healing,
Mike Z


#9

Ranking the supers by their usage alone or EX usage too? That would be quite different.
For supers alone, I’d say

God
Genei Jin and Aegis Reflector are God tier. The first makes Yun top-tier by itself, the second makes a so-so character actually competitive.

Top
Then I’d put Shippu and Hoyoukusen (tied). Abare can’t rank here imho, 'cause it only has ONE practical setup (karakusa in the correct portion of the stage), even if it’s devastating. Both have really good hitconfirms, Shippu has more stocks and overall more setups, and it punishes more stuff on block, but Hoyoukusen deals better damage, goes through fireballs, you can have a good mixup after it and long range whiff-punish .

High
Denjin
Tengu Stone
Dudley’s SAI/III (tied)
Makoto’s SAI and SAII (abare has the 100% stun and huge damage but not much besides that; seichuusen has only one stock but hitconfirms from and connects after like everything, good to punish on block too.)

Then comes a bunch of supers which all have good uses.

Nobody uses bad supers, so I won’t list 'em :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

kinda odd that akuma sa1 is ranked lower than ryu sa1. akumas sa1 has a faster startup IIRC since it hit confirms off s.forward(close) very well, which ryu sa1 doesnt. giving akuma more high options for confirm…


#11

according to the ol’ english SF3 guide… they have the exact same close MK (with startup 4, then +2/+4/+6 for blocking/standing/crouching…wtf?).

The super too. 4 startup and 12 blocked. Except that Akuma has one extra frame of recovery on a blocked super… go fig.

But that’s what I interpret from the numbers to mean anyhow (4 then -12/-13). The book isn’t clear on what the super numbers mean, maybe I’m wrong.

…and it’s known that there are errors in these numbers sometimes anyhow, so who knows lol.


#12

Elena is higher than Q and Hugo, and maybe even Oro IMO.

And I’d also move up Makoto’s SA1 up a tier, simply because it does so much damage and links off of most of her best normals.


#13

Grading a super by itself?

Chun’s super is fucking USELESS outide of reaction… (well except maybe chip, but even then…)

Those types of super are good yes, but just for punish/damage. If you’re grading supers, perhaps you should look at them standing by themselves and the advantages they permit once onscreen, as opposed to what move precedes them.

Think about it this way… If you gave another character Houyokusen, would that make them crazy? Or waitaminute… what if you gave them back+hp and an ultra hit-confirmable low MK as well!! Doesn’t this, in a way, make Chun’s d.MK better than her super?

I’d love to have a super laggy hit-confirmable d.MK type move with Q! Wouldn’t you? :wgrin:

When thinking this way, all of the supers in your top tier would fit, except for Chun’s really. I mean, as much as I’d hate to admit, I fall for the anti-throw/anti-poke/lucky-charms Abare Tosanami sometimes (and feel like a total tard, but that’s the fun of it). But ume-Houyokusen is crap. It blows. The only reason it’s good is that it combos off her normals easily from anywhere, nice damage, and gives a follow-up. The laggy easy-reaction d.MK is more important IMO.

Same thing with Shippu, it’s reaction only… but I guess that unlike Houyokusen, it actually has nice priority (wee, evil word) against normals, but also unlike Houyokusen it doesn’t do shit for damage. It’s only preferred because of the normals or specials that precede it. If half of Ken’s moves didn’t allow a shippu link, would it be as important? (maybe for punish yeah, lol) But it doesn’t do shit. His normals are the reasons why it is good… right?

The main reason why these supers are good is not only becuase of the super’s properties, but also because of the character that employs them. So when thinking that a super is “good” because it combos easily… you’re really not thinking about the super by itself, but are in fact thinking about situations and properties that are there before the super is even available!

But don’t mind me. I’m drunk, and this is just an ultranitpick for an Ultradavid haha.

edited for drunk mistakes


#14

Why is Aegis rated above Yagyou? Essentially they’re the same, but Yagyou gives you easier midscreen unblockables, another bar, and a better unblockable loop.


#15

wtf? sMK, SAI works with Ryu too iirc… I’ll try in training mode asap.


#16

Aegis allows Urien to do a lot more than Oro with Yagyou.

With Aegis, tackle into reflector is almost uncounterble, plus subsequent setups for unblockbles, chips, or hi-low corner traps. Oro doesnt have the same options cuz each Yagyou is only 4 hits.

And Aegis reflects Yagyou back when the 2 go head to head, therefore, Aegis wins.


#17

yeah except oro sucks


#18

i actually think corkscrew is just as good as shippu. if blocked on certain characters and not directly in the face, it is kind of safe which is an advantage over shippu. you’re definetely fucked if that is blocked. Also, corkscrew can also be linked from a gazillion different things. Maybe even more than shippu.

also, alex’s boomerang raid isn’t THAT bad its not good but its his best super. u can link it with stuff like cr. lp x cr. lp , fwd. mk, fwd hp, and UOH. its aight.


#19

Man, so much stupid ass theory shit going on in these threads. Oro sucks? WTF crack are these people smoking :lol: Genei Jin is best, XCOPY is worst, thread closed. :tup:

Aegis is better because you can utilize unblockables no matter where the opponent is on the screen. Oro’s unblockables only work midscreen.


#20

Since we’re talking about cancel’s and links, I’ve decided to compare Ken and Dudley. Jump-ins were ignored.

Ken’s Cancel’s & Links to Super (Useful one’s marked with *).

s.lp
c.lp
c.lk*
s.mp*
sc.mp (when opp. is crouching)
c.mp*
c.mk*
b.mk*
far fierce (only when meaty on opponent’s wake-up)
sc.fp*
t.hk* (maybe not that practical)
UOH*
hadouken*
srk*
Tatsu (only when really close)
back throw, in the corner for 2 hits

10 Useful cancel/links, 16 Total

Dudley

s.lp
c.lp
t.lp
s.lk
c.lk*
s.mp*
c.mp*
s.mk (I think it links?)
t.mk*
s.hp
t.hp
s.hk*
c.hk* (Through a juggle set-up)
t.hk*
UOH*
EX MGB* (Through juggling)
Jet Upper*
SSB*
Ducking Straight/Upper*

12 Useful cancel/links, 20 total

Even though Ken has tons of links, it looks like Dudley has more in total, and more useful ones in number. I’d say that Dud’s Corkscrew is better than Shippu, since it does come out faster, links/cancels off of more useful attacks, can be used as anti-air, and does comparable damage. Shippu is good though, especially when we factor in the sucking-in factor of Shippu, which is what CSB lacks… but Dud probly wins in this battle of SA3’s.