Super Use

zangief

#1

Seeing that SSIV is going to change the way we approach Super/Ultra, how do you best use Super now?

In training I’ve noticed that Super seems to have a shorter range than Ultra, and it can also be thrown out with one button: 720 + Heavy Punch = Super. This is important because missing a one-button 720 rotation will cause a Heavy SPD instead of burning meter with an EX.

I rarely see other Giefs throw out Super. When is it best worth using?


#2

If the player was really bad, and you didn’t need to use any meter on ex-gh’s in combos and stuff, and it’s a guaranteed round ender in the last round.


#3

Because it’s just stupid to use it. Giefs game revolves around him having meter. If i do a super it’s just for fun or for a guaranteed crumple stun 15% health left on the person’s bar and it’s the 3rd round. For inputs you can piano from lp to hp and that gives you three different chances to get it… or even if you think about negative edging it’s actually six the first press of lp,to hp and the release of those buttons.


#4

I use super as a taunt but only on the last round, other than that range is crap and it aint worth the meter for damage
As for talk of SSFIV,the air throw ultra will probably be a more dominate ultra, just cuz gief already has good ground work, which doesn’t necessarily mean the super will be used as replacement for the OG Ultra,
if anything it means more poking and waiting for the opponent to jump, then using the air throw ultra as punishment


#5

I use super all the time, especially as a backup in case I miss ultra. They way I normally land super is when someone jumps and presses a button early, then I can jump in and we can both sail down to the floor without them being able to hit me. The split second I hit the floor - super. Nothing they can do.

Example: [media=youtube]r8sH4tM1Iew#t=3m27s[/media]


#6

It’s a good punishment tool. I would use it as a punishment in any round if i was down by a lot and it would single handedly kill my opponent.

Whiff DP, SUPER ftw


#7

You’re missing the point though. If you have enough meter to DO the super, you’re doing something wrong.


#8

haha that’s true in most cases. But there are instances where you can get in without burning an EX GH and then they become obsessed with blocking so you tick throw etc. Eventually the situation I mentioned above could happen. It’s just not likely.


#9

No, ex-gh isn’t just to get in… On their wakeup, you should be using a strong mixup game, anytime you hit a poke with cr.lk, you should be hit confirming into ex-gh. Also with strong footsies, you should always be ready to cr.lk, os ex-gh. And anytime you catch anyone with a poke, you should finish the string with it.

So if you’re not using this in your game, and you’re building super meter, work on not allowing that to happen.


#10

sometimes u fight players who are obsessed with blocking and once you’re in EX GH wont be used much no matter what OS you use. Also, there are times when certain characters just plain keep you out and beat the crap out of you long enough for you to build it. It doesn’t happen often but it does happen, that’s all I am saying and in rare circumstances super can be usable.


#11

Looks like what happens in the video is that Rog, with a decent life lead, gets stupid when he sees Gief whiff the Ultra. That and my own experience lead me to believe that many fighters expect Gief to use meter for EX moves only, and thus might forget that the Super is even out there.
It’s just blooming hard to connect.


#12

Naw, it was more of IMO “he won’t do that again after I just dodge…WTF HE DID IT AGAIN 0_0” type thing…
I agree with J-merc though admitting that I don’t do well with finishing strings on pokes or o-sing into exgh.

  • :Bluu:

#13

You should only really do super if your opponent is stunned or it’s a punishment situation and you do not have ultra.

Combined with having full super bar, this opportunity rarely presents itself.


#14

I usually only find myself with full super in mirror matches. I seldom use exgh unless it’s after a lariat trade. Every now and then I’ll catch them with a cr.jab which leads to exgh. Or if they’re dumb enough to try to sweep me, I’ll try to punish with cr.lk exgh. But more often than not, I find myself building enough meter to reach having super. Another match I try to get super in is Seth. I’ll sit back and try to build meter because I need to do as much damage as I can with that one stun. It shifts the risk reward a little more in my favor. Plus I find that when I’m sitting back and building meter, they get a little impatient and will try more riskier stuff to get at me which is exactly what I want.


#15

im sorry but you must be facing crappy seths. how can you possibly build meter against him? whiff larait is giefs main way to build meter when not up close doing damage, and that is totally punishable by seth with the press of 1 button. any seth worth anything who ses you spinning across the screen will pop you everytime. and seths i face now know how bad gief wants to land a counter hit headbutt and are very careful to avoid it, thus making EXGH absoultly essintial if you have any hopes of winning that god aweful matchup.

but yea, super to me is VERY situational. ill probably land it 1 out of every 100 or so matches i play. if its the last round and i have a for sure super that will kill them, then of couse ill use it, but its pretty similar to rufus’s super in that even if you do land it, its almost always better to have 4 exgh’s or a safe exgh or whatever.

i dont know what you guys are talking about not having chances to use exgh. i mean its part of gief’s BNB combo! are you saying you never land a x-up or ambigious splash or knees after a knockdown? and if you are, what are you doing after them? if your tick throwing everytime, anyone decent will start to catch on and punish you, and if you arnt finishing your combos with exgh, your missing out on good damage, and more importantly a knockdown, which can potentially lead to muuuch more damage. just letting them go free after a combo without a KD just means you have to get in alll over again, which is where gief is at his weakest and takes the most damage. saying that you dont have chances to use exgh just doesn’t make sense to me. ide say its agrueably gief’s most important move and without it, he would be pretty low on the tier list i think. i think jaeron has it right, if you arn’t using the move on regular basis, you arn’t using gief to his potential and probably will have trouble beating people who know the matchup and how to zone you out.

trading your entire bar for an spd with the crapiest range is quite a gamble, and in the long run will most likly lose more matches for you then win, and while its not useless, its just not the smart play most of the time.


#16

I usually absorb his fireballs and build ultra meter. I don’t focus on building super meter. And you can’t get predictable with lariats when trying to build meter. He doesn’t have time to react to full screen kkk lariat unless he predicts you are going to do it. If you’re ppp lariating, yeah, he’ll punish you all day long. And having meter forces Seth to play more carefully which in turn gives you more options to be more reckless to get in. A lot of the times, it’s not about using your meter, it’s about letting your opponent see that you have meter and make mistakes because of it. But that’s just my way of thinking about the match and my way of approaching it. Everyone has different styles of play. I find it useful to switch it up too if one way doesn’t work. It usually surprises them because they were so used to you playing one way and do not adapt quickly to your change of style.


#17

This is just an outsiders opinion, but wouldn’t having super and the old ultra in SSF4 mean that, you essentially have 2 ultras?


#18

i suppose you can think of it that way because unlike everyone else, gief’s super and ultra basically have the same function. they both are zero frame start up grabs that do similar damage depending on the amount of ultra charge you have. they basically are the same move except the super’s range is absolute ass, and cost a whole super bar, which is essential for gief to use exgh’s. missing a super not only can affect that round, but the entire match, as a gief with meter is a LOT scarier than with without. the only thing i can think of that you can do with super and not ultra is if someone starts to charge a focus right in front of you, you can GH super cancel, which would be pretty damn sweet if i saw it happen in a real match, but again, is too situational to really make me wanna save for super.


#19

The difference is IMO, only in the mirror match and a couple other match ups - do you ever have enough meter to perform the super, while the Ultra - sorta comes naturally for Gief since he absorbs and takes so muych dmaage when working in. I tend to get enough meter on Sim matches, Gief matches, and surprsingly on Blanka matches (usually only the second round after the ball gets negated a couple times). On that same note though, when I can land super, I usually have the more powerful and better reaching ultra at disposal ANYWAY…I’m not saying I use the super in those matches, its just the rare time I get full super meter.

  • :bluu: