T.Hawk Laboratory

t-hawk

#1

I’m gonna post and update the Hawk-specific section of my SSF4 to-do list, and I think it would be cool if you guys did the same. Hopefully we can get some better ideas of what to test and inspire each other to think up new things.

 	 	 	 	 	  --any good deep meaties to option select and combo out of?  cr. mk maybe?   

–sweep looks very fast, does anything combo into it? jabs? meaty cr. mk?
–how safe is spire on block?
–any normals with good enough frame advantage to link a special from? dp looks fast enough that it might be possible
–dp follow up to spd? yep, recovers with plenty of time, lands very close on mp spd and 1 character length away on hp spd
–are any far non-jab normals cancelable?
–jab xx spire in footsies?
–jump attack and dive in one jump? yes, but jump jab only
–max range antiair spire? any range antiair ex spire?
–antiair low fierce?
–see which normals are fadc-able and super cancelable
–ex dive after ex dp on block? if whiff? on block yes, on whiff no
–which normals are safe on block, which punishable?
–who can punish dive? who can’t?
–cr. mp link to cr. mp?
–post jab spd, can I time meaty dive to cross up?
–jump back jab antiair?
–check for overheads, including jump back instant overhead
–any command normals? yes, down-toward+jab
–any dash-cancelable normals?
–can jabs link?
–any good safe meaty normals?
–any good safe jump air attacks?
–can hawk dive serve as a safe jump?
–focus crumple combo u2? no
–juggle antiair spire into dp? u2? dive? normals? into dp yes, not into u2
–is ex dp invincible? longer startup?
–jump jab cancel into dive uses? jump jab dive/land spd mixup? air to air jab cancel dive to land first or cross up?
–how good is the hitbox on dive, can it beat antiairs?
–jump instant dive? no, have to wait until you’re a little off the ground
–is dt+jab an overhead
–does he have a short jump?


#2

i’ll just add in… WHAT is the mixup if he gets a blocked jumpin and “thinks” his opponent will jump out of 360?..
gief has cr.lpx2 st.lk xx ex flat.

it doesnt seem that hawk has a good bnb from jab?? so that is something to look out for… if his mixup is dp… then hawk officially sucks… lol. j/k but his mixup needs to be found ASAP.

-dime


#3

I should hopefully be getting some solid playtime on this during the week, so I’ll report as much as I can.


#4

Didn’t see anyone pull any real bnb in the videos I’ve watched but I don’t think gief had a real bnb either did he?

I mean like a cr.lp and/or cr.lk combo to special or med/heavy normal. It seems his tricks will be jabbing and tick command grabs or DP.


#5

When you say you’re looking for “good” meaties, is that synonymous with safe meaties, like the ones you talk about in your tutorial videos?

I’ve seen in match videos that T. Hawk can do cr. jab x3, st. jab, far st. strong, so he can combo off his jabs for days. He probably has something similar to the Gief mix up you outlined above, we would just have to determine whether Hawk has a long range special cancelable normal like Gief’s st. short. That’s one of the things UltraDavid will be looking for when the game drops, it’s on his list.

I’ll also be getting a lot of play time soon in the next few days, so I can do a lot of testing.


#6

It looks to me like that ex-dash attack" i forget the name" puts them into a juggle state after it hits. Can you ultra 2 after this hits. I am assuming you can do his dragon punch attack or can you do another ex-dash attack. [media=youtube]zdojM6OpPPY&feature=channel[/media] happens at about 2:20.

Also does he have short jump.

One other cool thing i saw is how the ex condor dive works as a cross up after a blocked ex dragon punch in another vid this could be very useful.

I think hes going to be all about ex attacks.

Also it looks like after his hp command grab the best way to get in for a mix up is condor dive.

And neutral jump HK looks like a good anti air.


#7

Not just safe meaties, also meaties that can’t normally link but that can link to combos when done as early meaties.


#8

I played with him all night the other night and had a huge write up of his normals / specials but I didnt save it. Im going to do it again today when I get home from work. His dp is a fucking joke though. And im almost 100% positive condor spire is perfectly safe, as it should be.


#9

How about the EX version what did you think of his EX DP? It seems like he’ll be needing meter for his DP so I wonder if you can just dive in place or something to help kinda build that against your opponent or just normally kick there butts and build it that way.


#10

His DP is utter trash. It has hardly any priority, and loses to a bunch of things :frowning: His EX DP loses to ryu’s EX DP. I swear it’s almost like vega’s ST. The follow up after the EX DP is not free if the DP part hits. You can only cancel it at a certain point and depending on where you hit the person in the air with the dp it may or may not hit. Although in the corner it seems to hit everyone regardless of where you anti-aired them from.

Spire is a pretty good move. I spam that to build meter, but I dont recall exactly how much it builds. But it’s relatively safe to spam from a distance. Although up close it is not safe at all against grapplers. I could 360, super, or ultra thawk if he spires from up close (it was a t-hawk mirror). Maybe from a distance it’s safe, or maybe you can back dash but I’m not completely sure. I just know that I was able to command grab after every spire. Against other characters though it’s pretty awesome.

His jumps are super floaty. Almost like chun which is quite lame. So you can do the zangief crossup shit as well as gief can. So even though his jab throw leaves the guy right next to you theres not too many options i can think of since his x-up is so bad. Although against dj if you i believe jab spire right after you jab command throw him it’ll cross him up. I dunno if it works on all characters though. I tried doing it on a bunch of people and it seemed to only work on DJ.

Those are my initial impressions after playing the game for a good eight hours yesterday


#11

Ok I got some time in, but did not have access to training mode. It was win to stay so I did a lot of trial and error in most of the matches I could. And here are my impressions and possible answers, these will need to be confirmed in training b/c it was quite late and I had a few beers heh.

–any good deep meaties to option select and combo out of? cr. mk maybe?
I was throwing c.fierce meaty and it was working great for any non invuln reversal. The hitstun on it meaty seems long enough to link something after it but I couldn’t get anything to connect.

–sweep looks very fast, does anything combo into it? jabs? meaty cr. mk?
I want to say I got jab to combo into sweep on counter hit. I could not get anything after the cr.forward, but I was mainly toying with the range for it in footsies.

–how safe is spire on block?
Spire is very safe on block if you do not use the hard version in their grill… My whole initial gameplan on the ground was once I got the ranges down for spire I would just whiff it and go f.spd or punish the jump away with SRK. You can also of course buffer the 720 as well during it just like using the russians green hand. It also works as an antiair for jumps a distance in front of you, with more horizontal range than the SRK.

–dp follow up to spd? yep, recovers with plenty of time, lands very close on mp spd and 1 character length away on hp spd
Another option I was using after f.spd was condor dive. I could control the distance I landed at, right at their feet or just slightly back and would recover with plenty of time.

–are any far non-jab normals cancelable?
did not come across any, but not ruling it out

–who can punish dive? who can’t?
Sagat: Kara TU
Akuma: S.Rh
Hakan: Slide
Honda: HB
Boxer: Ultra,Super,Dash Punch, and also loses to on reaction EX HB (Maybe non ex but he didn’t do it)

Had the most success with late dives or punishing whiffs with it. It is great for those people who FA backdash all the time. and yes it crosses up at the right height/distance!

–post jab spd, can I time meaty dive to cross up?

Oh yes! It was easier on certain fighters (boxer was who I was able to get it working on the most) you can really cross with dive when they are cornered as well.

–any good safe meaty normals?

These need more testing.

–is ex dp invincible? longer startup?

Yes it has invincibility, but not a ton. It will lose to other better EX DP on wake up (Ryu,Akuma and of course Seth) but that is not when to bust it out. The DP is a great anti air hands down. I see them jumping I go tomahawk and ka pow. Close nj. into an air attack, pow.

–can hawk dive serve as a safe jump?
Yes I believe so. I was using it to land just outside of AA range

Thats it from the list I can think of right now. Main thing that felt so good with Hawk was the simple punishing the running from the grabs. If they jump away thinking grab they eat a SRK to the grill plain and simple. I want to also have someone with training mode test the range of the grabs. I want to say they are all the same (jab/fierce) And I ended up using fierce the most bc after I would get right back to them with a SRK or whiffed dive just as they got up. A lot more to do of course and if I get more time I’ll test what I can. Boxer and Honda look like tough match ups for Hawk. All may be subject to change!


#12

EX DP was getting stuffed on wake up. Real talk. Not a good move. And absolutely retarded.

Condor spire is 100% safe except against grapplers I think. It seems to be like -1 at worst. Strange though because on hit it doesnt knock down.

Condor Dive has a weird hitbox that sometimes whiffs when it looks like it should hit but has high priority. Traded or beat cleanly a lot of normals including sagat st.rh

Mixups off jab 360 are godlike. So much you can do. Ill be testing this a lot when I play again.

His splash is really really good. J.mk is like giefs. J.hk doesnt have a lot of active frames but is most likely better than jump fierce.

J.FP ** does not hit above his head anymore** and is really slow. This is so fucking dumb. His second best air normal in ST.

J.jab is shitty. I cant find a use for it. I guess you can cancel it into hawk dive but i dunno how useful that is yet.

St.rh, St.fp, st.jab, cr.lk, st.lk and st.forward are all still good. St strong is not as good as id hope but the speed of St.RH makes up for it.

His sweep is fucking awesome. Glad its fast. Might lose to fast focuses and/or focuses that seem to be off the ground/go over lows (ie. makoto)

More when i remember later


#13

I played with him a bit, I can give some info. You should take my responses with grain of salt, I’m not the best player around.

Can you explain, or give any key sequences to try? I couldn’t find any suitable meaty attacks with him, his attacks are very fast.

I tried with c.lp, s.lp and couldn’t do it.

lp CS is safe if done from distance, not so if done from up close. fp CS seems on disadvantage even on hit if done from close.

s.mp, s.lp xx dp works if that’s what you mean.

hp dp lands you pretty close, just outside of sdp distance. lp dp lands pretty far.
lp sdp lands you right next to opponent. mp two dashes away, hp other side of the screen.

nothing other then cl.s.mp, cl.s.mk is cancellable

maybe. jab does cancel to spire but I’m not sure what you have in mind.

yes jab into dive works it even comboes even against Ryu

spire does work as antiair if you do it early.

couldn’t try this

cl.s.mp, cl.s.mk only. fadc cancel doesn’t combo.

if ex dp wiffs you can’t do ex dive. on block ex dive rarely hits. I was trying against Yuri.

his normals seem pretty safe on block to me.

I think people who has long reach or can travel quickly can punish dive, like blank or balrog. also raging demon punishes.

I don’t think so. I was able to do s.mp, c.mp though.

seems plausible…if you can cross up dive. I couldn’t.

I don’t think so. j.lp has very short range.

He doesn’t have any. I tried a few jump back instant overhead but I don’t he has a working one.

yes only that and I wish he hadn’t that.

I don’t know how to do this

yes lp up to 4 hits

no idea. I couldn’t even do a meaty attack once. either his attacks are too fast or I suck at meaties.

I think dive can be used as a safe jump. You can’t tk-dive, dive requires certain height to come out but you can do it somewhat early and it falls pretty short and I think it can surprise an opponent waiting for block.

see above

yeah no. nothing seems to combo into u2.

I tried everything, nothing comboes into u2. early dp, early spire, early ex spire…nothing.

ex dp is faster. I couldn’t throughly test it but it seems it has invincibility frames only at the startup and very few. I was having difficult time going through fireballs with it.

it combos against everyone. timing is a little strict but not that hard.

I played against Ken and mostly it beat shoryuken or traded. Only a few times Ken was beat dive with a very late dp.

yes as you said.

no

I don’t think so but I’m not sure I’m doing short jump move correctly.

ALSO:

you can’t fadc his dp

you can’t cancel his c.mk or cl.fp

why does he even has a move like dt+p? I can’t imagine any uses for this. it’s not an overhead and it’s VERY ANNOYING MOVE. walk towards enemy, crouch and bam you have this move instead of c.lp

far s.rk doesn’t hit some crouching opponents. it didn’t hit Ryu but it hit Gief. standing close rk doesn’t hit sakura wtf?


#14

Far st.lk is cancellable as is cr.lk. I was doing cr.jab x 2 st.lk xx condor spire into jab 360


#15

his best anti-air normals are close st.MP (works 100%) and c.HP (trades sometimes, never got stuffed)

jab DP is great AA, other versions are garbage

tested all his options against ryu j.HP, blanka j.HK, and sagat j.MP

in combos, LP DP can be combo’d into but not HP DP, strangely enough

EX spire is the only spire that can be combo’d into

i tried linking into both s.HP and c.HK using either s.LP or s.MP (close or far) and neither worked…maybe its my timing

tried meaty c.MK and c.MP on their wakeup but couldnt tack on anything after (again, might be my timing)

when i was playing my friend, i was getting a ton of counterhits because of how long thawks pokes stay out for…i’m sure you can tack on a sweep or s.HP off a counterhit s.mp/s.mk

Hawk dive was trading with DPs and other anti-airs. Hawk dive that falls just short is good 360/720 setup as it recovers pretty fast

Anybody try FA (lvl 2/3) -> FA (lvl 2) -> U2? lol


#16

^^ so close mp is in then? i didnt see it the night i played but I never really tried to use it. It was good in ST as a panic button anti air. Same thing with cl.rh. For some reason the hitbox on that was really goofy and worked well. I hope its the same in this

Lp dp on wake up was getting stuffed for me. Again, for some reason, hawk has 0 range on his dp, except this time its horizontal. in st, he had shit range below his body so it was tough to stuff some pokes (guile low forward and ryu low forward for example)


#17

Anyone discovered any option selects?

I’m new to option selects so I don’t even know if this is a viable one and I’ll probably just look stupid, but let’s throw it out there anyway.
(with u2) Crossup splash> 720

They block:you should get a 360 grab.
They jump: U2
They back dash: Grab whiff

Possible?


#18

crossup splash blockstun would make the grab whiff if they just keep blocking


#19

I cant wait for this damn game, gonna be in training mode all day witht his fo0


#20

Does anyone know how much HP Hawk has? If you have a chat showing all of the new HP for the characters in SSF4 that would also be great.

Thanks in advance