Taking grooves/isms to the next level


#1

I’ve been wondering about a possible feature in a future SF or even 2D game, but is it practical, even possible?

Basically, there was 3 isms in SFA3, 6 grooves in CvS2 but what if in the next SF game every character would have a completely individualized groove that suits that characters’ play style and backstory. The easiest (and most obvious) potential example of this is Bison’s. What someone like Bison (cape) could have is a groove that relies on negative emotions to level up (kinda like the K-groove), the more aggressive and angry Bison’s opponent becomes the faster he levels up to perform his supers. This is just off the top of my head. If every character played completely different and unique, I think it could possibly be a step forward in making the fighting game experience more personal and unique.


#2

I’ve considered this before, but really if you think about it it only serves to decrease variety; say you have 12 characters, that’s 12 grooves. Why not just allow the player to select from those 12 regardless of which character he/she chooses? More variety that way, as long as you balance the grooves to the point where a few don’t have an obvious advantage over the others. I can’t really think of how you could make a groove’s system so intrinsically intertwined with the nature of the character to the point that this would be impossible…I might be wrong though.

I would like to see grooves with really damn radical differences though.


#3

That’s an interesting idea. It definitely would add depth to each character and could possibly add or break the balance of the game.


#4

Isn’t it how Capcom Fighting Evolution is?


#5

No. CFJ’s groove systems apply to whole groups of characters depending on what game they originate from. The grooves aren’t character-unique.


#6

I kind of appreciate it when the different modes of playing a character are simplified. For example: Last Blade 2’s Power or Speed, or Slash / Bust in the SS games. I think when a character has his or her own rule set ( such as CFJ’s Ingrid ) it kind of nullifies the individuality of the way the PLAYER plays the character ( for example in CvS2, an A-Rugal would be played differently than N-Rugal, and so on and so forth ).


#7

Already done. It’s called Eternal Fighter Zero.


#8

Cool idea, but this quote says it all.


#9

LazyGetCrazy/CricketEgg:Is that the case for Super Turbo? Would individuality be nullified in ST if the characters had different super systems instead of one universal sytem? That’s what a character should be like. That character has a “style”, a way to play that’s most advantageous for them. They can fight in different ways, but it’s not as advantageous(a grappler a full screen away). It doesn’t make sense to me when a fighter with no discipline deals with a situation in the same way a Shaolin monk would. You didn’t have a choice in ST and people didn’t and still don’t mind. Daemos’s idea I take it is that the choice you make is the character.

Polarity: In the process of balancing these groove’s for cross-character augmentation, we risk creating another A-Blanka. Also in the balancing process, alot of things would be taken away/added to these grooves, taking away the individuality of the groove and probably digging a deeper hole of imbalance. Imagine if every character in CvS2 had their own locked groove with different properties for each groove(SFA juggle, SF3 cancel, etc.). I guarantee you the game would be more balanced and fun(I like it, but you gotta acknowldge its boringness). This would be way more lively.


#10

Thats in Interresting Idea.
Sp00kys right though EFZ did it.
I like the whole Groove thing CvS2 did, but a few things need to change.

C = Take away RCing
A = Take away RCing, Reduce minimum damage from 100 to 50 while in CC mode.
P = Super Canceling should be like 3s. Not apon impact, but on start up; and scaling damage the same as 3s to.
S = Increase charge rate.
N = Remove RCing
K = Make it a solid damage Requirement of 7500.

They are good changes to me, but if SF4 came out, there would be no SNK grooves.

Character Cast:

Street Fighter 1:
Adon
Birdie
Eagle
Geki
Gen
Joe
Ken
Lee
Mike
Retsu
Ryu
Sagat

Street Fighter 2:
Balrog
Cammy
Chun-Li
Dee Jay
Dhalsim
E.Honda
Fei Long
Gouki
Guile
M.Bison
Vega
Zangief

Street Fighter Zero:
Cody
Dan
Guy
Juli
Juni
Karin
Nash
R.Mika
Rolento
Rose
Sakura
Sodom

Street Fighter 3:
Alex
Dudley
Elena
Hugo
Ibuki
Makoto
Necro
Oro
Sean
Urien
Yang
Yun

Just have C,A, and P grooves. Thats my Idea of SF4.

But your idea is good


#11

Please don’t turn this into an SF4 thread.


#12

I feel like elaborating. The only difference with this theory game and the games we play now is that the best way to play that character is already there, no need to discover. The way it is now, we can play the character the way we want, but if we want to win more then we play a certain way and that way often is boring and tedious. With this idea, the game wouldn’t wind up with some top-tier character(s) winning with the dullest of strategies.

Blanka should not have a meter that can be sat on for the love of god he’s a savage.

EDIT:
Polarity: If that was at me, sorry. My qoute just happened to include SF4 stuff.


#13

i’d rather have it with no grooves at all like SFA2, where everyone had access to everything. that would allow for even MORE creativity in how you play the character.


#14

Umm weren’t a lot of these already done in CvS2.1 aka CvS2 EO for xbox and gc?


#15

Nah, more LilSyaoran. At least your stuff was to do with gameplay, it’s the “which characters I’d put in” stuff that bothers me. Besides… I’m only backseat modding :stuck_out_tongue:


#16

Personally I would prefer it to scale back on the grooves compared to how CvS2 and the upcoming SS Tenka are planning on handling them. I wouldn’t see the problem with just two grooves that feature a significant enough difference.

Although I get the whole, everyone has a different groove idea, it really would seem to be just an extending basic character traits and adding distinction between characters.


#17

Exactly. But this “extension” is based on the character’s capabilities, skill, powers and background - adding more depth and individuality to the experience of picking a fighter.

This idea doesn’t negate universal capabilities (although limits them), merely adds unique capabilities.

No more than the groove system. When you pick K-groove it is expected that you play the character in a certain way just like when you pick Ryu with “Ryu groove”, it is expected that you play the character like Ryu himself would fight. However just cuz it is “expected” to play Ryu in his own way, doesn’t disallow you to explore and discover new ways to utilize Ryu and his “Ryu groove”.

All this in turn would make players pick and play characters based on their play style, the character’s uniqueness would serve to make your experiene better. I think it will be much more balanced and much easier to balance this way. At least people won’t select A-groove Bison because of aa abusive tactic (paint the wall), rather they would pick him because his playstyle suits theirs.

Something that could make everybody happy is this:

In Arcade mode, you are forced to play the character in his “character groove”. However when you play VS mode you could pick either your character’s unique groove or one of two or three universal grooves.

I imagine adding a hidden feature that allows you to pick other character’s unique grooves is inevitable. :pleased:


#18

Excuse me sir, only ONE jaded, angry mod on this board please :tdown:

=p


#19

From what I can tell from this site and all the sfalpha vids I’ve ever seen, nobody’s happy unless EVERYBODY has universal v-ism-esque abilities…look at the way 99% of american/south american gamers plays alpha 3: they probably wouldn’t touch it without fuckin v-ism. That’s literally all anyone ever uses. That just leaves me and about 40 other people out of a few thousand who would be happy with just A-ism.


#20

The cvs2 grooves are already pretty good with a few changes needed for a better balance. Char specific grooves hurt variety. Why not 30 universal grooves?

C-larger bar (lvl 2-> 3 area) to stop the super fast lvl 3 building.

A- Inability to build by whiffs, this could be the most important one as most matches cater to the runaway Agroove who builds meter and activates. The bar is still crazy short and should still allow pretty quick building even with this nerf

-shorten activate invincibility to discourage random activating and more thinking. Getting hit out of cc should be CH

  • Leave chip cc/ high dmg alone, one incentive to use A groove is for high dmg possibilities. Take that away and theres little reason to use it

?- maybe lvl 2 for a full bar option?

P+ability to store 2 lvl 2 supers like 3s(storing 2lvl 3 supers would be broken)
+EX moves for 1.4x dmg

S+Lvl 2 super if charged and not in red
+faster charge
+counter attack takes off 1/3 bar not 1/1

N/K are fine imo

all this is strictly imo

->one more thing. ACN grooves have a larger guard meter than PK. A better idea would be to swap it or even it out to keep PK from getting GCed